Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NJD] Canucks acquire 4th in '24 for F Curtis Lazar

[Hit the post]

for players yes, but the draft picks are just expected values - could easily argue you'd rather have 3 shots at developing mid-round non-blue chip prospects rather than 1, especially for a pool as weak and shallow as the canucks'

In a deep draft I'd rather have the high 2nd round pick.

 

[timw33]

In a deep draft I'd rather have the high 2nd round pick.

One thing that is so advantageous about the high 2nd round is that you get an entire evening to go back over your lists after the 1st round has finished are make adjustments to your plan for Day 2.

 

[Hit the post]

One thing that is so advantageous about the high 2nd round is that you get an entire evening to go back over your lists after the 1st round has finished are make adjustments to your plan for Day 2.

Good chance some guy falls. Granted there are likely good reasons why that player fell but I'd rather 'swing for the fences' on a possible high end player vs a bunch of 'ham & eggers' in the later rounds. Sure such depth players are useful but we lack skill everywhere (save perhaps on wing) on this team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

A redundant piece for the Canucks,and has been for quite sometime

A failed experiment,but credit to Allvin for moving on from the player fairly quickly.

 

[pitseleh]

i usually use this chart from the Athletic as a reference

obviously none of these are going to be perfect or even necessarily good approximations, but if we assume the Canucks 2nd will be around 38 (2.2 GSVA), my "replacing the 2nd" calc is essentially one 4th between 104-108 (0.8), one between 109-114 (0.7) and another between 115-122 (0.6) - adding up to 2.1 GSVA.

And that's just on average - but if they really think for example, that the top end of the second round of this draft is weak but the fourth has more depth than usual - by all means, there is a theoretical play here. But I don't think that's how they're approaching it.

Your numbers are off. Picks 104, 119 and 115 are worth 0.4, not 0.6-0.8.

 

[VanJack]

Too bad Lazar didn't work out for either the player or the team. He was a Salmon Arm, B.C. kid who was pumped to be signed and playing for his home-town team.

Expected to be a solid third-line center, faceoff guy and penalty kill specialist, none of that worked out in the end and he became redundant.

Credit Allvin for securing a fourth rounder for him.....not easy for a player with still two years left on his deal.

 

[Canucks LB]

A redundant piece for the Canucks,and has been for quite sometime

A failed experiment,but credit to Allvin for moving on from the player fairly quickly.

I will be completely 100% satisfied if that other trade never happen, even without trading Brock or JT

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Good move to move off a guy who had been a pretty big disappointment, and do it quickly.

We can do that? I thought we either had to ride out their contracts or package them together for an even more horrendous contract.

Ye gads, nature is healing.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

McKenzie making it sound like the Canucks and Penguins are still working out a framework for a Miller trade. Take on a player the Canucks don't want and flip him to a 3rd team.

Sign him to 8 years!
Or trade him!
Or make him captain !



No f***ing direction. No plan.

 

[orcatown]

Wasn't a month into the season when I started lambasting Lazar for his play in game reports. Tells you something about his surroundings in Boston that he was able to put together a good season there in 2021 - 2022. Prior to that he had played himself well out of the League.

Guess he was worth the chance but Lazar should get down on his knees and thank the Canucks for forking over $4 mill.

Give credit to the organization for recognizing a mistake and actually getting something. I don't know how they convinced NJD but I doubt they get out to see many of our games.

In the end, although obviously it wasn't intended as such, the acquisition of Lazar began one of those deals where you sign someone with the aspiration of unloading them at the trade deadline for some prospects or picks. In this unintentional way the overall Lazar situation worked out to be a positive. Like bring in a vet and then use a trade to get something. Something like Vanek deal for Motte but on a lesser scale.

 

[F A N]

One thing that is so advantageous about the high 2nd round is that you get an entire evening to go back over your lists after the 1st round has finished are make adjustments to your plan for Day 2.

What? Change our draft list after Day 1 of the draft? Potentially override our scouts? Strip Harvey of his authority? Surely you aren’t suggesting this is ok?

On another note. Draft pick for Lazar? Love it. If someone told me we are signing Lazar last summer to trade him at the deadline for a 2024 4th I would have said great.

 

[timw33]

What? Change our draft list after Day 1 of the draft? Potentially override our scouts? Strip Harvey of his authority? Surely you aren’t suggesting this is ok?

On another note. Draft pick for Lazar? Love it. If someone told me we are signing Lazar last summer to trade him at the deadline for a 2024 4th I would have said great.

I mostly mean re-vamp your strategy based on what has happened in the first round in terms of what types of players and positions are flying off the shelves. It allows for some adjustments and planning.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

What? Change our draft list after Day 1 of the draft? Potentially override our scouts? Strip Harvey of his authority? Surely you aren’t suggesting this is ok?

"Go back over", implying that collaboration would happen and not some cloak and dagger BS from Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber.

 

[ziploc]

This was our big move today.

 

[vancityluongo]

Your numbers are off. Picks 104, 119 and 115 are worth 0.4, not 0.6-0.8.

ah, good catch, my bad. those bold black lines threw it off

5-7 sounds right then

 

[me2]

Thought he would clear waivers with 2 years left on that deal. Getting an asset for him is great.

Liked the signing in the off-season, but it just didn't work out.

Not much risk to the signing being cheap but the years were more problematic. Allvin has done a good job cleaning up some of his own minor moves/contracts that turned out bleh. Lazar and Stillman.

The 4th a very nice bonus for spending a year but freeing a roster spot/contract slot for the next couple of years is the big win here.

Lazar seemed like a good guy so wish him a good time in NJ.

 

[Cogburn]

Guys! Look! A pick! Allvin's been redeemed!

 

[AHLdepth]

Bananas that Lazar goes for a 4th when Motte went for a 4th last year. Really tells you how much the personal evaluation of a GM plays into it

 

[Hit the post]

Guys! Look! A pick! Allvin's been redeemed!

Well Alvin & the Chipmunks DID get a conditional 1st round pick for Horvat. Let's see if the actually use it or deal it.

 

[VanJack]

Trading Stillman and Lazar for anything beyond a bag of pucks, has to be a win for Allvin.

The problem is that both guys had term on their contracts. Stillman is signed for one more year at $1.5m; and Lazar has two more years at $1m a season.

Normally teams acquiring depth players at the deadline shy away from players with term on their contracts like the plague.

So getting a 2023 fourth rounder and promising prospect like Josh Bloom has to qualify as a minor miracle.

 

[MS]

Bananas that Lazar goes for a 4th when Motte went for a 4th last year. Really tells you how much the personal evaluation of a GM plays into it

Yeah, absolutely crazy when you think of it that way. NHL player evaluation is bizarre and so faulty.

Motte was 10x the player that Lazar is ... but Lazar was great at the 2015 WJCs so here we are.

 

[Hoglander]

Really don't understand how anyone could watch him play this year, see his contract, and think he is worth anything. To get a 4th is awesome - not a tremendous asset or anything, but future considerations should have been the best we could have expected.

 

[Bitz and Bites]

I’d imagine that NJ saw a lot more of Lazar last season in Boston where he looked half decent and is going off of that. Lucky for us their pro scouts go to bed before 10 PM.

 

[F A N]

I mostly mean re-vamp your strategy based on what has happened in the first round in terms of what types of players and positions are flying off the shelves. It allows for some adjustments and planning.

So you are saying make changes to the draft list. We are talking about a high 2nd round pick here. It shouldn't matter what happened in the first round. You draft the BPA. If you have multiple picks in the 2nd round then sure you strategize and change the order if you think you can get your top 2 targets. Presumably, the team's BPA in the early 2nd wouldn't be available by the time the team picks again in the 3rd.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you shouldn't re-evaluate. I think the reason why teams do adjust their draft list after the first round is because in the process of coming up with the list decisions are rushed and not properly deliberated by the time you get down to players available in the 2nd round.

"Go back over", implying that collaboration would happen and not some cloak and dagger BS from Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber.

What cloak and dagger BS are you talking about? Which 2nd round pick are you implying was a pick that didn't involve "collaboration."

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

What cloak and dagger BS are you talking about? Which 2nd round pick are you implying was a pick that didn't involve "collaboration."

You were the one trying to draw parallels between Weisbrod and Benning independently changing things with zero collab with the rest of the drafting team. That’s what I was referring to.

Not sure if you were just being cheeky or what, but you’re kinda ignorant if you don’t think teams would be reevaluating things together after the first round. Again, collaboratively, not just two people high on huffing their own farts thinking they’re the smartest guys in the room.