Confirmed with Link: [VAN/MTL] Canucks acquire G Casey DeSmith for F Tanner Pearson, 3rd Round Pick

[Billy Kvcmu]

Watch them trade Silovs next. Watch him turn into Arturs Irbe Version 2.0 immediately afterwards...

Weed should haves stayed illegal

 

[krutovsdonut]

Yeah.

There needs to be a 'way back' from idiotic and to a certain degree immoral acts.

There needs to be a path to redemption.

there already is and has been for a long time. humanity already figured out that drastic punishment for crimes is barbaric. we figured out that lynch mob justice is disgusting and unacceptable. we figured out a whole justice system aimed at fairly identifyting and punishing crimes that balances the impact on the victims, the need to discourage that behaviour and the desirability of rehabilitation. we don't need jackasses shooting from the hip on social media with extreme takes based on limited information to go stirring up mobs to manage crimes in our society. if the justice system is not functioning to your satisfaction then push for reforms, don't try to replace it with the brutal blunt instrument of social media mob justice ruining people's lives.

we also figured out long before that that self-righteous people loudly calling loudly for drastic punishment of others usually have selfish, hypocrtical and unpleasant motives. every major religion has teachings to that effect.

people just need to find a way to continue to teach and learn more widely the moral wisdom of humanity that used to be taught through the various religious faiths even as those faiths decline. we need to apply that wisdom to the dynamics of social media and online interactions generally. we need to learn once again to look on people with contempt who are out their venting their bloodlust or hiding their own behaviour under the banner of moral high ground. we've known those people for what they are before and we will know it again.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Just read the last 3 - 4 pages, admittedly quickly, and I want to stab my eyes out. Its not black or white, its some debatable shade of gray.

Thats 48 seconds I will never get back. ........

 

[rypper]

Watch them trade Silovs next. Watch him turn into Arturs Irbe Version 2.0 immediately afterwards...

 

[PuckMunchkin]

there already is and has been for a long time. humanity already figured out that drastic punishment for crimes is barbaric. we figured out that lynch mob justice is disgusting and unacceptable. we figured out a whole justice system aimed at fairly identifyting and punishing crimes that balances the impact on the victims, the need to discourage that behaviour and the desirability of rehabilitation. we don't need jackasses shooting from the hip on social media with extreme takes based on limited information to go stirring up mobs to manage crimes in our society. if the justice system is not functioning to your satisfaction then push for reforms, don't try to replace it with the brutal blunt instrument of social media mob justice ruining people's lives.

we also figured out long before that that self-righteous people loudly calling loudly for drastic punishment of others usually have selfish, hypocrtical and unpleasant motives. every major religion has teachings to that effect.

people just need to find a way to continue to teach and learn more widely the moral wisdom of humanity that used to be taught through the various religious faiths even as those faiths decline. we need to apply that wisdom to the dynamics of social media and online interactions generally. we need to learn once again to look on people with contempt who are out their venting their bloodlust or hiding their own behaviour under the banner of moral high ground. we've known those people for what they are before and we will know it again.

Sorry there are too many fires to put out in those three paragraphs. I dont have the energy for it.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sorry there are too many fires to put out in those three paragraphs. I dont have the energy for it.

there is a lot wrong with the arrogant passive aggressive nonsense you just posted too that i could readily tie into what is wrong with internet culture. we could be here all day if you want, but why don't we both let's just let history decide which of us is wrong on the bigger picture stuff and stick to discussing hockey? we already disagree quite enough over that. no need to expand our horizons.

 

[VanJack]

Apparently Pavel Francouz in Colorado will miss the start of the season, and the Av's are desperate for goaltending.

But in scanning the Av's prospect pool, there isn't much there. Maybe recovering a draft pick?

 

[Vector]

Apparently Pavel Francouz in Colorado will miss the start of the season, and the Av's are desperate for goaltending.

But in scanning the Av's prospect pool, there isn't much there. Maybe recovering a draft pick?

Most likely scenario, depending on how long he's out, is they see if they can grab a goalie off waivers or future considerations. Similar to how Spencer Martin was acquired.

 

[GoalerGuru]

I knew people involved with the 2014 DeSmith investigations (one with the school and one with the police), so perhaps I can help clear up some confusion. There were/are many things written that are worded in such a way as to imply guilt on account of assault and in some cases, reported completely wrong which necessitated revisions by some publications that were buried days later (and thus never seen). Unless you speak "lawyer" and can decipher what is written between the lines regarding the final outcome, you are lead to believe he plead guilty to assault and took a plea which was not the case.

1) It is important to delineate between the accusations made against DeSmith and the resisting arrest charge. The accusations were just that and were never brought up in court because private investigators, the school, and police found all the accusations to be not credible (she later admitted he did not assault her). The accepted plea, community service, fine, and counseling were all related to a resisting arrest charge the night of the incident.

2) The accusers' detailed words to police were leaked by someone in the police (illegally?) the day after to a paper who published her "account" prior to any investigations. It seems many of her words were then cherry-picked by other publications to imply guilt... or worse.

3) It took over a half year to clear up the matter which meant the team had to bring in another goaltender before the investigations were complete, thus ending his tenure playing hockey at UNH. Later, he was reinstated to the school as a student-in-good-standing and allowed to attend classes. The school did not allow him back on the team for violating team conduct but by then, they had already replaced him. After the NCAA denied him a transfer, he decided to sign with the Penguins organization.

4) I was told he was within his rights to sue the accuser but choose to move on and put it behind them because the lengthy proceedings would have derailed any chance he had of playing professional hockey. A few years ago there was a law passed to protect college students accused of similar false crimes. Too little too late for him it seems.

From what I've recall, the day after the incident and after sobering up, he issued personal apologies to each officer involved, went beyond the required community service, and attended alcohol counseling leading to his record being totally cleared.

Hope this helps.

 

[Canuckle1970]

I knew people involved with the 2014 DeSmith investigations (one with the school and one with the police), so perhaps I can help clear up some confusion. There were/are many things written that are worded in such a way as to imply guilt on account of assault and in some cases, reported completely wrong which necessitated revisions by some publications that were buried days later (and thus never seen). Unless you speak "lawyer" and can decipher what is written between the lines regarding the final outcome, you are lead to believe he plead guilty to assault and took a plea which was not the case.

1) It is important to delineate between the accusations made against DeSmith and the resisting arrest charge. The accusations were just that and were never brought up in court because private investigators, the school, and police found all the accusations to be not credible (she later admitted he did not assault her). The accepted plea, community service, fine, and counseling were all related to a resisting arrest charge the night of the incident.

2) The accusers' detailed words to police were leaked by someone in the police (illegally?) the day after to a paper who published her "account" prior to any investigations. It seems many of her words were then cherry-picked by other publications to imply guilt... or worse.

3) It took over a half year to clear up the matter which meant the team had to bring in another goaltender before the investigations were complete, thus ending his tenure playing hockey at UNH. Later, he was reinstated to the school as a student-in-good-standing and allowed to attend classes. The school did not allow him back on the team for violating team conduct but by then, they had already replaced him. After the NCAA denied him a transfer, he decided to sign with the Penguins organization.

4) I was told he was within his rights to sue the accuser but choose to move on and put it behind them because the lengthy proceedings would have derailed any chance he had of playing professional hockey. A few years ago there was a law passed to protect college students accused of similar false crimes. Too little too late for him it seems.

From what I've recall, the day after the incident and after sobering up, he issued personal apologies to each officer involved, went beyond the required community service, and attended alcohol counseling leading to his record being totally cleared.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for this clarification. Much appreciated.

 

[Javaman]

My apologies in case I'm repeating what's been said in the last few pages of this thread... but here we go:

I agree with the general idea that we shouldn't continue to punish people after they've paid their "debt to society" once the criminal justice system has done its thing.

However, none of that means anything if the punishment doesn't effect a genuine change in the person. If DeSmith is still basically the same person he was when he committed his crimes, then I have nothing good to say about him. But, if his experience has genuinely changed who he is as a person, then I have no problem giving him another chance.

 

[joelCAMEL]

My apologies in case I'm repeating what's been said in the last few pages of this thread... but here we go:

I agree with the general idea that we shouldn't continue to punish people after they've paid their "debt to society" once the criminal justice system has done its thing.

However, none of that means anything if the punishment doesn't effect a genuine change in the person. If DeSmith is still basically the same person he was when he committed his crimes, then I have nothing good to say about him. But, if his experience has genuinely changed who he is as a person, then I have no problem giving him another chance.

My understanding is that his crime committed was resisting arrest. Does that agree with what you think he did?

 

[Javaman]

My understanding is that his crime committed was resisting arrest. Does that agree with what you think he did?

My understanding is that's what his guilty plea is for. If I assume the information that @GoalerGuru provided is correct, and DeSmith won't resist legitimate police actions in the future, then I don't see the point in HFCanucks demonizing him.

BUT!

Misogynistic violence is a real thing that no decent human being should try to sweep under the rug. The justice system alone has been historically awful at addressing this issue. I'm simultaneously alert to and wary of claims that "he didn't actually do the things she accused him of."

The ugly reality is that men often get away with all sorts of criminal acts against women precisely because the justice system allows them to nitpick their way out of criminal liability.

I'm not saying that's the case with DeSmith, but I do emphatically reserve the right hold a healthily skeptical stance.

 

[F A N]

To me a 6th or 7th is essentially worthless and a 4th or 5th is 'very small positive value'.

No disagreement here. Hence why I said DeSmith's value was between negative to a late round pick.

DeSmith didn't have a poor year. He had a positive GSAA on a bad defensive team. He was still an above-average backup goalie in statistically the worst year of his career.

Age should absolutely be a factor when you're looking at 35+ guys who were sub-.900 last year. History should tell you that they are probably starting their downward slide.

I'm surprised at his GSAA assuming it's accurate. Penguins fans seem to think he sucks.

I don't consider age a factor for veterans on a one year contract coming off a good number of regular season and playoff games (i.e. there's a good sample size to evaluate signs of decline). Obviously a goalie who has shown significant decline last season at age 35+ would be a different story.

I don't put any stock into such reports. Even the most reliable sources get things wrong all the time and many sources have reasons to state things more concretely than they actually are. If there was a deal for Myers and we held I'd be disappointed that we didn't do everything would could move him but I'm not going to tie myself in knots over an insider report.

I find it highly dubious that Myers would have been unmovable now with $1 million in cash owing but had positive value in summer 2022 with $12 million in cash owing.

It was reported by Friedman, echoed by Dhaliwal and Shah etc. also had a similar understanding that Myers was worth an asset. They did not mention the need to retain salary or need to throw in a sweetener. The way Friedman worded things is the Canucks have set a price for Myers and if you are willing to pay it then talk to them otherwise don't bother. I don't think how anyone can interpret that as the Canucks unable to trade Myers for a minimal return. They might need to take back an expiring contract to make it work but that's not the same as requiring a sweetener or needing to retain significant salary.

@MS, Myers was coming off a surprisingly good season in summer 2022. Last year he sucked again. Personally, I think the Canucks looked at their roster and didn't think they can replace Myers so chose to keep him. Keep in mind that our right side basically had Schenn and Myers before we went out and acquired Bear.

 

[krutovsdonut]

My understanding is that his crime committed was resisting arrest. Does that agree with what you think he did?

My understanding is that's what his guilty plea is for.

nope.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Anecdotal example of Babcock aside, I'm as leftist as they come and I think that one place that some fellow leftists find folly is with the endless purity testing and the inability to welcome people back into the fold after mistakes (assuming it's followed by reflection and earnest improvement).

What you're suggesting seems a lot like discarding people who make terrible or stupid mistakes. If you leave people no recourse for redemption, it gives them no reason to redeem themselves other than their own moral compass which, given the circumstances, probably needs a helping hand.

We can have accountability AND forgiveness.

Otherwise what's the recourse (again, assuming earnest attempts to learn and be better)? Kill them? have a caste system of those who have never erred above those who have? Who gets to define what makes someone unredeemable?

I think it’s quite ironic how far leftists are for prison reform and rehabilitation yet are quick to shun and discard those same type of people from society.

 

[krutovsdonut]

If DeSmith is still basically the same person he was when he committed his crimes, then I have nothing good to say about him. But, if his experience has genuinely changed who he is as a person, then I have no problem giving him another chance.

what "crimes" did he commit?

 

[Kryten]

Holy f*** can we watch some hockey yet. Drop the puck

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I think it’s quite ironic how far leftists are for prison reform and rehabilitation yet are quick to shun and discard those same type of people from society.

I think you're painting with a really broad brush but yes some leftists are hypocritical in that way.

Though to be fair, they are often coming from a place of righteous anger on behalf of marginalized people who have been exploited with no recourse for basically time immemorial.

So I can see why some of us overcorrect even if I find it frustrating and counter-productive at times.

 

[I am toxic]

I knew people involved with the 2014 DeSmith investigations (one with the school and one with the police), so perhaps I can help clear up some confusion. There were/are many things written that are worded in such a way as to imply guilt on account of assault and in some cases, reported completely wrong which necessitated revisions by some publications that were buried days later (and thus never seen). Unless you speak "lawyer" and can decipher what is written between the lines regarding the final outcome, you are lead to believe he plead guilty to assault and took a plea which was not the case.

1) It is important to delineate between the accusations made against DeSmith and the resisting arrest charge. The accusations were just that and were never brought up in court because private investigators, the school, and police found all the accusations to be not credible (she later admitted he did not assault her). The accepted plea, community service, fine, and counseling were all related to a resisting arrest charge the night of the incident.

2) The accusers' detailed words to police were leaked by someone in the police (illegally?) the day after to a paper who published her "account" prior to any investigations. It seems many of her words were then cherry-picked by other publications to imply guilt... or worse.

3) It took over a half year to clear up the matter which meant the team had to bring in another goaltender before the investigations were complete, thus ending his tenure playing hockey at UNH. Later, he was reinstated to the school as a student-in-good-standing and allowed to attend classes. The school did not allow him back on the team for violating team conduct but by then, they had already replaced him. After the NCAA denied him a transfer, he decided to sign with the Penguins organization.

4) I was told he was within his rights to sue the accuser but choose to move on and put it behind them because the lengthy proceedings would have derailed any chance he had of playing professional hockey. A few years ago there was a law passed to protect college students accused of similar false crimes. Too little too late for him it seems.

From what I've recall, the day after the incident and after sobering up, he issued personal apologies to each officer involved, went beyond the required community service, and attended alcohol counseling leading to his record being totally cleared.

Hope this helps.

According to news reports dated December 9, 2014, the decision by the university to reinstate him was made less than three months after the arrest, effective December 20. The diversion agreement was signed prior to the news report.

And according to Umile's quoted words, it was his decision not to bring DeSmith back onto the team, not the schools'.

 

[Vector]

Holy f*** can we watch some hockey yet. Drop the puck

Sunday at 5pm

 

[Kryten]

Sunday at 5pm

Is that when preseason starts?

 

[Vector]

Is that when preseason starts?

Yup. In Calgary against the Flames.

If you want, turn on Sportsnet right now and watch Kings vs Coyotes in Australia.

 

[Kryten]

Yup. In Calgary against the Flames.

If you want, turn on Sportsnet right now and watch Kings vs Coyotes in Australia.

Cheers, but I will not so respectfully decline. Move the Yotes to Australia, cowards

 

[rypper]

Move the Yotes to Australia, cowards

You think the Canucks have long road trips now...