OT: Valour FC: Winnipeg's new professional soccer team

[nobody imp0rtant]

Who hired Gale? Miller? Terrible hire anyway you slice it. Losing 8-0 at home is embarrassing. And they team's combined summer/fall record is the worst in the CPL. I find that inexcusable given the franchise had a head start on every other franchise along with Hamilton.

Bad management and clearly bad player signings. There should be a housecleaning at the end of the season.

Crowds have taken a noticeable dip the past few games. The fans are obviously not happy with the quality of soccer on display from the home team.

I'm also questioning Gale's ability, but I think you give him another season to evaluate, adjust and see what comes of it. If they still suck, then you move on. But we must remember... it's tough being a GM in an undesirable market where players are reluctant to sign. He might be doing the best job possible under the circumstances.

 

[sipowicz]

Is this the last season for a team no one supports in this city?

Is anyone really interested in watching 0-0 draws?

 

[jetsmooseice]

Is this the last season for a team no one supports in this city?

Is anyone really interested in watching 0-0 draws?

It's not going to get any easier for them with more competition for the summer sports dollar (Seabears basketball) on the scene.

 

[Hollywood3]

It's not going to get any easier for them with more competition for the summer sports dollar (Seabears basketball) on the scene.

Which sport has lost the most money in Winnipeg?
- summer basketball
- soccer

I wish good luck to all but have my doubts.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

It's not going to get any easier for them with more competition for the summer sports dollar (Seabears basketball) on the scene.

CPL has an absolutely amazing sweetheart deal with Soccer Canada (which is whole other can of worms). Bombers are funding Valour and Valour's losses barely even make a scratch in the Bombers profit margin.

It's not going anywhere right now.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

From what I've read, Canada Soccer "pays" Canadian Soccer Business (CSB) $3M per year to do all sorts of "things", one of which is to support/fund the men's Canadian Premier League. So, the Valour while owned (I think) by the Bombers are subsidized by CSB. My understanding (please correct me because I may be wrong here) is that in order for us (Canada) to host men's World Cup games (2026), we had to have a national league to development home-grown talent.

 

[surixon]

From what I've read, Canada Soccer "pays" Canadian Soccer Business (CSB) $3M per year to do all sorts of "things", one of which is to support/fund the men's Canadian Premier League. So, the Valour while owned (I think) by the Bombers are subsidized by CSB. My understanding (please correct me because I may be wrong here) is that in order for us (Canada) to host men's World Cup games (2026), we had to have a national league to development home-grown talent.

You have it backwards. CSB pays Canada Soccer $3 to $4 million a year for the right to use its marketing trademarks. CSB gets to keep any assiciared advertisment revenue from those trademarks.

You are correct that getting the men's world cup was indeed Conditional on us having a domestic pro league.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

You have it backwards. CSB pays Canada Soccer $3 to $4 million a year for the right to use its marketing trademarks. CSB gets to keep any assiciared advertisment revenue from those trademarks.

You are correct that getting the men's world cup was indeed Conditional on us having a domestic pro league.

Yeah. And with recent success of particularly the men's national team it's a steal and a half for CSB.

It's why both national teams (men's and womens) have been taking strike actions and protests lately, since large portions of the proceeds from deals that should be going to Soccer Canada to fund national teams are being siphoned off to the CSB (CPL owners). There's a fair bit of secrecy involved in the deal as well.

There's other reason national team players have been protesting (pay rates between men/women, lost revenues for players, pay in general, travel accomodations, scheduling, etc, etc) but it largely ties back to this CSB-Soccer Canada deal.

Regardless of the truth is this deal is locked in for a while. There's no getting around it. So CPL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. At least not until after 2026 as you both mentioned there for World Cup.

Even then Valour is doing pretty OK in terms on CPL. Some losses but overall no near folding/relocation levels. They are probably middle of the pack in finances, and that's with Valour being almost inarguably the WORST team in CPL overall. I thought they'd finally win a Canada Cup game, but they ended up losing to an Amateur team in the first round this year. Doesn't seem to matter what they do, they've been really really awful.

 

[surixon]

Yeah. And with recent success of particularly the men's national team it's a steal and a half for CSB.

It's why both national teams (men's and womens) have been taking strike actions and protests lately, since large portions of the proceeds from deals that should be going to Soccer Canada to fund national teams are being siphoned off to the CSB (CPL owners). There's a fair bit of secrecy involved in the deal as well.

There's other reason national team players have been protesting (pay rates between men/women, lost revenues for players, pay in general, travel accomodations, scheduling, etc, etc) but it largely ties back to this CSB-Soccer Canada deal.

Regardless of the truth is this deal is locked in for a while. There's no getting around it. So CPL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. At least not until after 2026 as you both mentioned there for World Cup.

Even then Valour is doing pretty OK in terms on CPL. Some losses but overall no near folding/relocation levels. They are probably middle of the pack in finances, and that's with Valour being almost inarguably the WORST team in CPL overall. I thought they'd finally win a Canada Cup game, but they ended up losing to an Amateur team in the first round this year. Doesn't seem to matter what they do, they've been really really awful.

Oh I get why they aren't happy but truth be told in non world cup years Canads Soccer was struggling to make $1 million in advertising revenue coupled with having to pay to get their games broadcast on TV. The deal was quite good for them up until this past year.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

CPL has an absolutely amazing sweetheart deal with Soccer Canada (which is whole other can of worms). Bombers are funding Valour and Valour's losses barely even make a scratch in the Bombers profit margin.

It's not going anywhere right now.

A few months ago, Wade Miller subtly implied that people needed to come and support the Valour or the team may be toast. A $900,000 loss (last year was a $400,000 loss) is not nothing to the Bombers. That's 20% of their profits.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Edmonton folded, York ownership tossed the keys of the team to the league last month.

I watch highlights of pretty much every Valour game the past few years. While they officially announce crowds of 2500 - 3000, you can tell there are typically no more than 1000 people at the games if that.

 

[Hollywood3]

A few months ago, Wade Miller subtly implied that people needed to come and support the Valour or the team may be toast. A $900,000 loss (last year was a $400,000 loss) is not nothing to the Bombers. That's 20% of their profits.

The Bombers need to save up for the lean years which are due to arise.

 

[UFO]

Amazing, I never knew there was a pro football team in Winnipeg. If you need a coach, hit me up.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

You have it backwards. CSB pays Canada Soccer $3 to $4 million a year for the right to use its marketing trademarks. CSB gets to keep any assiciared advertisment revenue from those trademarks.

You are correct that getting the men's world cup was indeed Conditional on us having a domestic pro league.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[JetsNut]

From what I've read, Canada Soccer "pays" Canadian Soccer Business (CSB) $3M per year to do all sorts of "things", one of which is to support/fund the men's Canadian Premier League. So, the Valour while owned (I think) by the Bombers are subsidized by CSB. My understanding (please correct me because I may be wrong here) is that in order for us (Canada) to host men's World Cup games (2026), we had to have a national league to development home-grown talent.

Your are 100% correct. The only reason reason the league exists is for the opportunity to host the World Cup. Sadly once that event passes I suspect the league will cease to exist.

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

Which sport has lost the most money in Winnipeg?
- summer basketball
- soccer

I wish good luck to all but have my doubts.

Looks like the answer is soccer.

People want to see the basketball.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

valour's first ever game sold around 10,000 seats or so. I wouldn't read too much into Sea Bears attendance for their first game. Let's see what attendance is like for their other games. My guess we would be around 2,000 or so per game.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Looks like the answer is soccer.

People want to see the basketball.

I think both of those teams are relying on the soccer/basketball communities for grassroots support.

Everyone I know who is into basketball is hyped for the Sea Bears. By contrast, many of the soccer people I know stopped caring about Valour quite a while ago. I am a little surprised by the indifference of the soccer community in Winnipeg... if Valour fails, it could be decades before we get a pro soccer team again.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I think both of those teams are relying on the soccer/basketball communities for grassroots support.

Everyone I know who is into basketball is hyped for the Sea Bears. By contrast, many of the soccer people I know stopped caring about Valour quite a while ago. I am a little surprised by the indifference of the soccer community in Winnipeg... if Valour fails, it could be decades before we get a pro soccer team again.

I wonder how much the Valour organization actually reaches out to grassroots to encourage them to buy tickets and attend games. The Moose occasionally have games where they draw 6,000 or more people with thousands of those being young kids. Can't Valour offer a few promotions during the year to actually draw a half-decent crowd of 5,000 or more people? Maybe a game or two in May/June/September promoting $10 - $15 tickets for several sections to schools across the city? Same thing for community/soccer organizations in July/August - a few games where kids can pay $5 - $10, families can get in for $30 - $40...maybe some promotions for tickets/plus hot dogs/soft drinks for like $20 - 25 per person?

I watched highlights of the last Valour home game and it looked like there was less than 1000 people there AGAIN!

 

[jetsmooseice]

I wonder how much the Valour organization actually reaches out to grassroots to encourage them to buy tickets and attend games. The Moose occasionally have games where they draw 6,000 or more people with thousands of those being young kids. Can't Valour offer a few promotions during the year to actually draw a half-decent crowd of 5,000 or more people? Maybe a game or two in May/June/September promoting $10 - $15 tickets for several sections to schools across the city? Same thing for community/soccer organizations in July/August - a few games where kids can pay $5 - $10, families can get in for $30 - $40...maybe some promotions for tickets/plus hot dogs/soft drinks for like $20 - 25 per person?

I watched highlights of the last Valour home game and it looked like there was less than 1000 people there AGAIN!

You make a good point, when you go to Moose or ICE games there's always a ton of minor hockey teams. They are usually there on some kind of promo where the kids get free or discounted tickets and the parents pay. By contrast, I don't think I've ever seen a soccer team sitting together at a Valour match, except for the kids who walk on the field with the teams.

Why not entice some teams with cheap tickets and have them come out? Maybe fill a few seats, make some noise, get some atmosphere going in there. It's not like Valour is going to run out of seats to sell.

The actual Valour family deal is awful. $89 for a family of 4 + snacks + parking. Not the worst price in the world, but the Bomber family deal is $99 and I can tell you the Bomber game will deliver 10 times the entertainment than the Valour match will. Only the most hardcore soccer freak would take the Valour game at those prices. Cut the price in half and I'll think about it.

Valour's product is floundering on the pitch and off but they aren't really trying that hard to draw people in.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

You make a good point, when you go to Moose or ICE games there's always a ton of minor hockey teams. They are usually there on some kind of promo where the kids get free or discounted tickets and the parents pay. By contrast, I don't think I've ever seen a soccer team sitting together at a Valour match, except for the kids who walk on the field with the teams.

Why not entice some teams with cheap tickets and have them come out? Maybe fill a few seats, make some noise, get some atmosphere going in there. It's not like Valour is going to run out of seats to sell.

The actual Valour family deal is awful. $89 for a family of 4 + snacks + parking. Not the worst price in the world, but the Bomber family deal is $99 and I can tell you the Bomber game will deliver 10 times the entertainment than the Valour match will. Only the most hardcore soccer freak would take the Valour game at those prices. Cut the price in half and I'll think about it.

Valour's product is floundering on the pitch and off but they aren't really trying that hard to draw people in.

Yes, $90 for 4 tickets plus snacks is not exactly enticing given quality of play you get to experience live. It's a tier below USL in the US and 2 tiers below MLS. It's probably comparable to Goldeyes baseball which is the equivalent of single A baseball.

 

[sipowicz]

valour's first ever game sold around 10,000 seats or so. I wouldn't read too much into Sea Bears attendance for their first game. Let's see what attendance is like for their other games. My guess we would be around 2,000 or so per game.

Who doesn't want to spend time indoors on a nice summer night!?

 

[jetsmooseice]

Yes, $90 for 4 tickets plus snacks is not exactly enticing given quality of play you get to experience live. It's a tier below USL in the US and 2 tiers below MLS. It's probably comparable to Goldeyes baseball which is the equivalent of single A baseball.

Yeah, the Goldeyes are a good analogy to draw. Much like the Goldeyes qualify as actual pro baseball, Valour is legitimate pro soccer. But both are probably about as low level as it gets before you start calling it semi-pro.

Hell, even the Goldeyes are expensive for what it is. When you consider that I can get a Bomber or Moose ticket for under $30, or a resale Jets ticket for under $50 to most games, then it's hard to swallow having to pay $25 or more for the Goldeyes or Valour.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Yeah, the Goldeyes are a good analogy to draw. Much like the Goldeyes qualify as actual pro baseball, Valour is legitimate pro soccer. But both are probably about as low level as it gets before you start calling it semi-pro.

Hell, even the Goldeyes are expensive for what it is. When you consider that I can get a Bomber or Moose ticket for under $30, or a resale Jets ticket for under $50 to most games, then it's hard to swallow having to pay $25 or more for the Goldeyes or Valour.

Yes, Sammy overcharges for his product. Probably one of the primary reasons crowds have dropped from 5,000 or more per game a decade ago to a little over 3,000 per game now. That, plus the declining quality of the product with another independent league or two popping up over the past decade or decade and a half resulting in increased competition (I seem to remember back in the 90s, the Goldeyes were thought of as closer to AA quality of baseball) and Boomers aging out from attending games and not being replaced.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Yeah, the Goldeyes are a good analogy to draw. Much like the Goldeyes qualify as actual pro baseball, Valour is legitimate pro soccer. But both are probably about as low level as it gets before you start calling it semi-pro.

Why in hell didn't Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenny buy Valour FC and give us a show called Welcome to Winnipeg? We could be an MLS team by now.