Updated line up

[Ruggle]

I don't know why some people think the bottom 6 got worse, I see a lot of depth and options tbh.
Roberston - Kerfoot - Simmonds Korshkov - Thornton - Spezza Vesey - Engvall - Barabanov
Malgin - Boyd - Anderson Petan - Brooks - Agostino
and this is assuming the top 6 is Hyman - Matthews - Marner Nylander - Tavares - Mikheyev

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't know why some people think the bottom 6 got worse, I see a lot of depth and options tbh.
Roberston - Kerfoot - Simmonds Korshkov - Thornton - Spezza Vesey - Engvall - Barabanov
Malgin - Boyd - Anderson Petan - Brooks - Agostino
and this is assuming the top 6 is Hyman - Matthews - Marner Nylander - Tavares - Mikheyev

Kapanen and Johnsson are more proven commodities, at the current time, than who we have in the bottom six. I think that's what people focus on. I'm not saying that they are right... it's just the way it is.

 

[Coachcorner]

Kapanen and Johnsson are more proven commodities, at the current time, than who we have in the bottom six. I think that's what people focus on. I'm not saying that they are right... it's just the way it is.

We also didn't even need those type of players (kapanen and johnsson). Not at all, we already had those types of. Our team was built the wrong. Incredibly enough sire. At this pro level, its a rarity. Now it seems the new gm understands suddenly the whole essence of the GAME. So this season will be more interesting. Our rear ends is build more the right stuff way. I love life sire. Am kissing it as we speak. Really licking it hard.

 

[thusk]

Kapanen and Johnsson are more proven commodities, at the current time, than who we have in the bottom six. I think that's what people focus on. I'm not saying that they are right... it's just the way it is.

Carreer playoff point by kapanen 7in 25 game
Johnsson 6 in 14 game

we can easyly get that kind of production with thornton or vesey or simmonds or barabanov or robertson or korshkov or Anderson?

Leafs depht is not really worst to win during playoff game, thats the most important thing.

 

[horner]

Anyone seen Thornton play?

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Today's games:

5:30AM EST - Loponen (U20 SM-sarja)
11:30AM EST - Hirvonen v.s. Rasanen (Liiga)
11:30AM EST - Rindell (Liiga)
11:30AM EST - Niemela (Liiga)
11:30AM EST - Hollowel (Mestis)
12:00PM EST - Kokkonen (U20 SM-sarja)
1:45PM EST - Thornton + Herzog (Suiss NL)
1:45PM EST - Malgin (Suiss NL)
7:00PM EST - Abramov (QMJHL)
7:05PM EST - Miller (USHL)
8:05PM EST - Schingoethe (USHL)

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't know why some people think the bottom 6 got worse, I see a lot of depth and options tbh.
Roberston - Kerfoot - Simmonds Korshkov - Thornton - Spezza Vesey - Engvall - Barabanov
Malgin - Boyd - Anderson Petan - Brooks - Agostino
and this is assuming the top 6 is Hyman - Matthews - Marner Nylander - Tavares - Mikheyev

The bottom 6 didn’t even exist last year or previous years. The management switched to a top 6 bottom 6 team construction for this coming season. They figured out the adv stats princesses disappeared in the playoffs and you need “intangibles “ in your lineup. Things like leadership and character that stats don’t tract but shows up missing every playoff or scrum. Gauthier adv stats were great. He’s unemployed! I appreciate the players that put team first.
This team is not done building but its a start in the right direction. All skill didn’t work and never has ever.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They figured out the adv stats princesses disappeared in the playoffs

Who are these "advanced stats princesses" that you're talking about?

Things like leadership and character that stats don’t tract but shows up missing every playoff or scrum.

Whatever influence you believe leadership/character has is represented in the statistics, because the statistics are just the results of what happened.

Gauthier adv stats were great.

No they weren't...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Who are these "advanced stats princesses" that you're talking about?

Whatever influence you believe leadership/character has is represented in the statistics, because the statistics are just the results of what happened.

No they weren't...

A perimeter team is a perimeter team. You draw your own conclusions on stats. Gritty net front presence and battle was not a signature of the team’s construction. They all played like adv stat princesses beyond the top 4 and thats the problem. Oh i think Goat had some pretty good stats. They were posted numerous times on here to that effect.
If you think a few stats boosts your opinion of the teams play by all means fill yer boots. The reality was they were a inconsistent team hampered by injuries somewhat.
I give significant weight to injuries as opposed to many who just call them excuses or say every team has them. Injuries effect on competitiveness and the timing of them can be very costly. Last years team was scoring lots top 3 and giving up goals as bad as some of the worst.

The goals against was a direct effect of being imbalanced heavily to the offensive.
We need players defensively strong bottom 6 and we weren’t even constructed in a top 6 bottom 6 . You aren’t stopping goals if you ignore defensively oriented play. The forward group has still not struck the right balance we need to shut down teams. I’m not thumping my chest but the players removed will hardly be missed.

Edit: the top 4 carried the team, they were really good. We don’t need Kerfoot on this team

 

[Dekes For Days]

A perimeter team is a perimeter team.

The Leafs are not a perimeter team.

They all played like adv stat princesses beyond the top 4 and thats the problem.

What does an "advanced stat princess" play like, according to you? Because you seem to be naming things that would not result in good "advanced stats", and naming players who didn't have very good "advanced stats". I'm not sure why you think playing badly, according to you, would result in good advanced stats.

Oh i think Goat had some pretty good stats.

No, he did not. What stats are you referring to?

If you think a few stats boosts your opinion of the teams play by all means fill yer boots.

Nothing is boosted. Utilizing the valuable information available gives a more accurate and detailed position on the team, it's play, and it's potential moving forward.

The goals against was a direct effect of being imbalanced heavily to the offensive.

The goals against was primarily a result of pretty bad goaltending. Defensive play improved.

 

[ottomaddox]

I wish I could start a poll, but it would likely get merged with this thread.

Topic:

Muzzin Holl

Vs

Muzzin Bogosian

I like Holl. I am glad he is a leaf and was extended. I think that Bogosian has the edge. He played some significant minutes in the Cup Finals. I just don't think Holl can compare. Holl is an NHLer, but he's a good 5-6. To me he's not a top 4 D. I think that Muzzin is solid and can make anyone paired with him better. If TOR really does lack a physical presence then why play Bogosian only 9 min. a night? It would be better for TOR to play Bogosian in the 2nd pairing as far as I can tell.

Do fans really want to see Holl in the top 4?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Leafs are not a perimeter team at all.

What does an "advanced stat princess" play like, according to you? Because you seem to be naming things that would not result in good "advanced stats".

No, he did not. What stats are you referring to?

Nothing is boosted. Utilizing the valuable information available gives a more accurate and detailed position on the team, it's play, and it's potential moving forward.

The goals against was primarily a result of pretty bad goaltending. Defensive play improved.

The leafs were a soft easy to play against perimeter team. I don’t know what you believe is a hard working physical team. They are not a team that had jam. They are/ were a rush team, they don’t force plays to the inside and prefer to look for the perfect play in general. They over pass the puck as opposed to getting their nose dirty in front of the net. They have no set plays to crash the crease on the power-play. I’m not sure you even know what low side pressure set up’s look like if you are a new/young fan. This team sets up to open up ice and good defensive teams don’t open up.
Andersen carried the team the previous three years but you are likely to ignore basically the same players were were the result of him having too carry them for their weak defensive play.

Defensive play did not improve for management apparently when they completely regroup extensively to a defensive/ physical type of acquisition.

That team you watched last year had a recognition of defensive play and the ability to provide that play that was 27th in the league. The teams in that category were lottery draft pick level. The contenders were taking care of their goals for,goals against differential.
Thats a important stat for me. Fantasy goals designed numbers don’t play hard or clear the crease or cycle the puck or stand up for their mates.

I know a soft,scared princess team when i see one. You see adv stats. Have at it. I don’t blow my own horn usually but the changes implemented to this point are changes I have discussed being needed prior to them happening.
The team will be better without Kappy/ Johnsson and Gauthier. Simmonds will likely play more physical than the three combined for instance.
So when you continue blaming everything on the Goalie judt remember the goalie was the MVP of the the three previous seasons of first round exits.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The leafs were a soft easy to play against perimeter team.

The Leafs were none of those things, but they especially were not a perimeter team. We have the information to see where they generate their chances and shots.

Andersen carried the team the previous three years but you are likely to ignore basically the same players were were the result of him having too carry them for their weak defensive play.

Andersen was a big part of the team's success the previous 3 years, but that doesn't change the issues with this past year. It also was not the same players; many of the defensively problematic players were gone, which is part of the reason we improved our defensive results in 2019-2020.

Defensive play did not improve for management apparently when they completely regroup extensively to a defensive/ physical type of acquisition.

They didn't "completely regroup extensively". We know they wanted Brodie at least a year ago, and Bogosian was a target before this offseason as well. Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, and Holl are all returning. Lehtonen is also joining, and is not that type of player.

So when you continue blaming everything on the Goalie

I'm not "blaming everything on the goalie" Goalies playing worse impacts team results; that's just a fact. You identified goals against. Goals against between 2016-2019 was bad primarily because of defensive play. Goals against in 2019-2020 was bad primarily because of goaltending.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Leafs were none of those things, but they especially were not a perimeter team. We have the information to see where they generate their chances and shots.

Andersen was a big part of the team's success the previous 3 years, but that doesn't change the issues with this past year. It also was not the same players; many of the defensively problematic players were gone, which is part of the reason we improved our defensive results in 2019-2020.

They didn't "completely regroup extensively". We know they wanted Brodie at least a year ago, and Bogosian was a target before this offseason as well. Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, and Holl are all returning. Lehtonen is also joining, and is not that type of player.

I'm not "blaming everything on the goalie" Goalies playing worse impacts team results; that's just a fact. You identified goals against. Goals against between 2016-2019 was bad primarily because of defensive play. Goals against in 2019-2020 was bad primarily because of goaltending.

The team was weak defensively when you give up the 4th most goals and land right with the leagues worst teams in doing so. They got owned in the crease area for years. They were terrible. Goals against is a team stat. A .910 sv % is decent. When you give up to many shots for years and years it takes its toll.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The team was weak defensively when you give up the 4th most goals and land right with the leagues worst teams in doing so. They got owned in the crease area for years. They were terrible. Goals against is a team stat. A .910 sv % is decent. When you give up to many shots for years and years it takes its toll.

This is fluid. Andersen was one of the very best playoff goalies and the team didnt score. Are we to blame the scorers, not really. The playoffs defense was good actually and Andersens numbers are somewhat of a reflection of that. If the team comes together next season, Andersen and Campbell will shine is my thinking. This os the best team in five years. Lets see if they blend together for a better all round game. You think that will all be stats,I don’t. Character has no measure and you ignore it all you like

 

[IPS]

I wish I could start a poll, but it would likely get merged with this thread.

Topic:

Muzzin Holl

Vs

Muzzin Bogosian

I like Holl. I am glad he is a leaf and was extended. I think that Bogosian has the edge. He played some significant minutes in the Cup Finals. I just don't think Holl can compare. Holl is an NHLer, but he's a good 5-6. To me he's not a top 4 D. I think that Muzzin is solid and can make anyone paired with him better. If TOR really does lack a physical presence then why play Bogosian only 9 min. a night? It would be better for TOR to play Bogosian in the 2nd pairing as far as I can tell.

Do fans really want to see Holl in the top 4?

If Bogo brings the level of play to the Leafs that he brought to Tampa in the postseason, he's likely a better player than Holl. Who knows maybe he defies the odds and becomes the staple partner for Rielly.

 

[Buds17]

I wish I could start a poll, but it would likely get merged with this thread.

Topic:

Muzzin Holl

Vs

Muzzin Bogosian

I like Holl. I am glad he is a leaf and was extended. I think that Bogosian has the edge. He played some significant minutes in the Cup Finals. I just don't think Holl can compare. Holl is an NHLer, but he's a good 5-6. To me he's not a top 4 D. I think that Muzzin is solid and can make anyone paired with him better. If TOR really does lack a physical presence then why play Bogosian only 9 min. a night? It would be better for TOR to play Bogosian in the 2nd pairing as far as I can tell.

Do fans really want to see Holl in the top 4?

Maybe both will see time alongside Muzzin at different points? There are questions to be answered with Holl and Bogosian. Can Holl replicate his success from last season? Can Bogosian play close enough to whatever will pass for a full season now?

 

[Dekes For Days]

The team was weak defensively

Goals against is a team stat. A .910 sv % is decent.

Goals against is a combination of team defensive results and goaltending. The team's defensive results were average this year, after being weak defensively in previous years. The team's goaltending results were horrible this year, after being fairly decent in previous years. The Leafs received 0.904 goaltending this season, which is among the worst in the league, especially relative to our defensive results, and a big departure from the 0.914 - 0.920 SV% we got in previous seasons.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Goals against is a combination of team defensive results and goaltending. The team's defensive results were average this year, after being weak defensively in previous years. The team's goaltending results were horrible this year, after being fairly decent in previous years. The Leafs received 0.904 goaltending this season, which is among the worst in the league, especially relative to our defensive results, and a big departure from the 0.914 - 0.920 SV% we got in previous seasons.

Well it bodes well for next year as it looks like we have a solid amount of defensive depth and skating and skill still. Andersen and Campbell look like a really good tandem. Hutch and the habits throwing players off of Keefe’s defensive style all hampered progress. Changing a coach isn’t easy or smooth transition usually. Keefe had the 8 best record in the league I believe it was. He will have them playing his game reactively soon enough. Then the consistency will show.

Edit: on which stats Gauthier had posted on here I don’t remember exactly. I didn’t post them and was pretty much disgusted with Goat by then. The writing was on the wall for Gauthier. I wasn’t one to defend him going back quite a bit now. Some managed to show some good defensive metrics for him. It never done anything for my benefit having them post them.

 

[X66]

A perimeter team is a perimeter team. You draw your own conclusions on stats. Gritty net front presence and battle was not a signature of the team’s construction. They all played like adv stat princesses beyond the top 4 and thats the problem. Oh i think Goat had some pretty good stats. They were posted numerous times on here to that effect.
If you think a few stats boosts your opinion of the teams play by all means fill yer boots. The reality was they were a inconsistent team hampered by injuries somewhat.
I give significant weight to injuries as opposed to many who just call them excuses or say every team has them. Injuries effect on competitiveness and the timing of them can be very costly. Last years team was scoring lots top 3 and giving up goals as bad as some of the worst.

The goals against was a direct effect of being imbalanced heavily to the offensive.
We need players defensively strong bottom 6 and we weren’t even constructed in a top 6 bottom 6 . You aren’t stopping goals if you ignore defensively oriented play. The forward group has still not struck the right balance we need to shut down teams. I’m not thumping my chest but the players removed will hardly be missed.

Edit: the top 4 carried the team, they were really good. We don’t need Kerfoot on this team

Leafs probably scored more goals from the greasy area this year than any team not named Tampa, and they scored more from those areas than Columbus did in their series...

So no, they aren't a perimeter team, and that is a lazy take.

You are correct though in saying they are an easy team to play against physically.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Well it bodes well for next year as it looks like we have a solid amount of defensive depth and skating and skill still. Andersen and Campbell look like a really good tandem.

Agreed. There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic for next year. We'll have a full year of Keefe (where there were a lot of promising signs), our depth and competition in all 3 positions is the best it has been, and it's extremely unlikely that goaltending will be that bad again with an Andersen/Campbell duo.

 

[X66]

Agreed. There's a lot of reasons to be optimistic for next year. We'll have a full year of Keefe (where there were a lot of promising signs), our depth and competition in all 3 positions is the best it has been, and it's extremely unlikely that goaltending will be that bad again with an Andersen/Campbell duo.

And HEALTH hopefully

 

[Dekes For Days]

And HEALTH hopefully

Yes, that too hopefully (*fingers crossed*). We should be better equipped to deal with that type of thing this coming year too, and we actually held the fort pretty well last year considering just how devastated by injury we were.

 

[IPS]

Yes, that too hopefully (*fingers crossed*). We should be better equipped to deal with that type of thing this coming year too, and we actually held the fort pretty well last year considering just how devastated by injury we were.

I doubt we'll come across another situation where both our #1 and #2 D are out simultaneously for that long.

 

[TopCheese]

Kerfoot-Tavares- marner
Hyman-Matthews-nylander
Mikheyev-Thornton-vesey
-Simmonds-spezza-engvall

- Robertson getting called up halfway through and sticks for good. Really wish Tavares-kerfoot was a more permanent combo. They always seem to have great chemistry

Rielly-Bogosian
Muzzin-Brodie
Dermott-lethonen

I think Bogosian starts here and last longer than he should. I see a ceci like year for him. muzzin brodie might be the best 2nd pair in the league