Update: Conflicting info on Holland. (He still might return.)

[Ezekial]

And here is your answer why Babs ran, Stevie ran, Nill ran, no good players will even talk with us. Hockey town is DEAD!!! This is not a rebuild it is what this team will be. watch all good young kids leave as soon as they can or rot on a **** team. the pizza kids only care about money and the fake ass sell outs at the pizza hut. sad sad day.

By the time "all the good kids" are gone we'll have a crop of new 23 year olds under RFA status. Probably higher picks, too.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Entering year one of their rebuild and the Wings decide to bring Holland back on a year to year basis. Remember all those other organizations that rebuilt with their GM taking one year deals?

At least we now know ownership is just as clueless as management.

 

[NickH8]

And here is your answer why Babs ran, Stevie ran, Nill ran, no good players will even talk with us. Hockey town is DEAD!!! This is not a rebuild it is what this team will be. watch all good young kids leave as soon as they can or rot on a **** team. the pizza kids only care about money and the fake ass sell outs at the pizza hut. sad sad day.

You put it rather bluntly but I somewhat agree. There's no more drive for greatness in this organization, only complacency. The whole attitude of "you can't expect cups" and "I like our team". Technically Holland hasn't been horrible, bringing in picks and moving out money, but the attitude isn't there. There's no fire, nobody is worried about their job, and it's status quo year after year. There should have been massive roster turnover this past offseason. At least try to make some trades and get creative, but no. They'll make enough profit off of casual fans who remember the Red Wings of old and don't know better that the organization as a whole is Mickey Mouse.

 

[Heaton]

This story is playing out almost exactly like how other massive rebuilds have played out.

1. A once good (great) team loses all of their stars to age and don't draft well along the way due to different circumstances.
2. Ownership is too afraid to make a change so they go with the status quo and put all of their faith into a GM who may not have it anymore.
3. The rebuild will most likely go poorly and linger on much longer than it needs to be (hence Holland's dumb 10 year rebuild quotes).
4. The GM will finally get fired after years of drafting high and the next GM will come in and finish the job the previous GM couldn't.

I didn't expect Holland to be 'fired', I did expect Blashill to be gone though. But this pretty much tells the fanbase that things are going to get much worse before they get better. There's no chance this team is anywhere near as 'good' next year. IMO all of this is fine as long as we draft some good prospects along the way. I think this team will have a really good shot at being far and away the worst team in the league next season. I just hope for Z and Kronwall's sake that they retire.

 

[waltdetroit]

Just to be a devil's advocate, look at what the Colorado fans thought of Sakic & Bednar two years ago. Now it's a different story. It's not impossible that Holland & Blash can achieve similar results (or we can also end up like Buffalo).

 

[Heaton]

Just to be a devil's advocate, look at what the Colorado fans thought of Sakic & Bednar two years ago. Now it's a different story. It's not impossible that Holland & Blash can achieve similar results (or we can also end up like Buffalo).

Well, Colorado already had MacKinnon and Rantanen, granted MacKinnon was not as good since his rookie season, but he was a former #1 overall pick. The Wings don't have anywhere near the talent that the Avalanche does.

 

[Goalie guy]

You put it rather bluntly but I somewhat agree. There's no more drive for greatness in this organization, only complacency. The whole attitude of "you can't expect cups" and "I like our team". Technically Holland hasn't been horrible, bringing in picks and moving out money, but the attitude isn't there. There's no fire, nobody is worried about their job, and it's status quo year after year. There should have been massive roster turnover this past offseason. At least try to make some trades and get creative, but no. They'll make enough profit off of casual fans who remember the Red Wings of old and don't know better that the organization as a whole is Mickey Mouse.

The problem is it's not even the causal fan it's big company's buying up seats and boxes making the numbers look good. Yes the seats are sold, but no ones in them. Then come out and say well we have the best new rink in the league people are just to busy doing other things lol. No people are not there.

 

[Heaton]

I'm glad tax payers paid for a new arena for two teams that won't generate any attendance.

 

[waltdetroit]

Well, Colorado already had MacKinnon and Rantanen, granted MacKinnon was not as good since his rookie season, but he was a former #1 overall pick. The Wings don't have anywhere near the talent that the Avalanche does.

True, but if a few of our players make leaps we could do something similar as a group/team

 

[Heaton]

True, but if a few of our players make leaps we could do something similar as a group/team

It's possible, but it would need to be massive leaps. I don't see AA being an elite player, he'll be lucky to ever crack 55 points. But Larkin and Mantha could be much better next season. Other than that, we have no one on defense and no goaltending.

Colorado already had Erik Johnson (another former 1st overall pick), Tyson Barrie, Varlamov etc... The Wings have no talent comparable to them, so I don't see any realistic way it can happen.

 

[DetroitRed]

Are they dlkjfljhnvdkjf serious? Are they sdgjhkukb with us?

Maybe a season or two from now, when they have to decide who to buy out from among the forty-percent of the team who will need to be bought out by that point, maybe then they will finally change the GM. I just hope Ken doesn't do more damage until then.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Let's take a look at the top 10 teams (regular season) of the last 5 seasons and the top 3 players (imo) on those teams:

1. Washington - Ovechkin (#1OA 2004), Backstrom (#4OA 2006), Carlson (#27th OA 2008)
2. Anaheim - Getzlaf (#19OA 2003), Perry (#28OA 2003), Fowler (#12OA 2010)
3. St.Louis - Schwartz (#14OA 2010), Pietrangelo (#4OA 2008), Tarasenko (#16OA 2010)
4. Pittsburgh - Malkin (#2OA 2004), Crosby (#1OA 2005), Kessel (#5OA 2006)
5. Tampa Bay - Stamkos (#1OA 2008), Hedman (#2OA 2009), Kucherov (#58OA 2011)
6. Boston - Bergeron (#45OA 2003), Marchand (#71OA 2006), Pastrnak (#25OA 2014)
7. San Jose - Pavelski (#205 OA 2003), Couture (#9OA 2009), Burns (#20OA 2003)
8. Chicago - Kane (#1OA 2007), Toews (#3OA 2006), Keith (#54OA 2002)
9. Nashville - Forsberg (#11OA 2012), Subban (#43OA 2007), Josi (#38OA 2008)
10. NYR - Lundqvist (#205OA 2000), Mcdonagh (#12OA 2007), Zibanejad (#6OA 2011)

30 players.

26 were drafted 2010 or earlier. 29 were drafted 2012 or earlier.
19 were drafted in the top 20 of the 1st round. Holland had 1 pick in the top 20 before 2013.
16 were drafted with picks higher than any Holland had before 2017.

I'd just like to make sure people know what they're judging Holland on. The teams that have been good the last couple of years, drafted their core between 2000 and 2010. Mostly in the first half of the 1st round.

This sh*t takes time and the worst thing you can do is get impatient. We are paying the price for being too good for too long and we've just barely started scratching the surface of what Holland can do with higher picks. Giving him more time is the smart thing to do. At least let him fail ONCE in the area of the draft where success is the expectation.

 

[waltdetroit]

It's possible, but it would need to be massive leaps. I don't see AA being an elite player, he'll be lucky to ever crack 55 points. But Larkin and Mantha could be much better next season. Other than that, we have no one on defense and no goaltending.

Colorado already had Erik Johnson (another former 1st overall pick), Tyson Barrie, Varlamov etc... The Wings have no talent comparable to them, so I don't see any realistic way it can happen.

Yes we don't seem to have the talent. The point I was trying to make was the Av's fans were not supportive of the GM & coach but things came together for them. They are still barely a wild card but are in a position no one thought they would be after Duchene. We have unknown talent (Raz, cholo, Hronel, etc) and 2-5 players who most likely get better (but how much?) While it is not assured, we may/could show a drastic improvement in a couple of years

 

[Heaton]

Let's take a look at the top 10 teams (regular season) of the last 5 seasons and the top 3 players (imo) on those teams:

1. Washington - Ovechkin (#1OA 2004), Backstrom (#4OA 2006), Carlson (#27th OA 2008)
2. Anaheim - Getzlaf (#19OA 2003), Perry (#28OA 2003), Fowler (#12OA 2010)
3. St.Louis - Schwartz (#14OA 2010), Pietrangelo (#4OA 2008), Tarasenko (#16OA 2010)
4. Pittsburgh - Malkin (#2OA 2004), Crosby (#1OA 2005), Kessel (#5OA 2006)
5. Tampa Bay - Stamkos (#1OA 2008), Hedman (#2OA 2009), Kucherov (#58OA 2011)
6. Boston - Bergeron (#45OA 2003), Marchand (#71OA 2006), Pastrnak (#25OA 2014)
7. San Jose - Pavelski (#205 OA 2003), Couture (#9OA 2009), Burns (#20OA 2003)
8. Chicago - Kane (#1OA 2007), Toews (#3OA 2006), Keith (#54OA 2002)
9. Nashville - Forsberg (#11OA 2012), Subban (#43OA 2007), Josi (#38OA 2008)
10. NYR - Lundqvist (#205OA 2000), Mcdonagh (#12OA 2007), Zibanejad (#6OA 2011)

30 players.

26 were drafted 2010 or earlier. 29 were drafted 2012 or earlier.
19 were drafted in the top 20 of the 1st round. Holland had 1 pick in the top 20 before 2013.
16 were drafted with picks higher than any Holland had before 2017.

I'd just like to make sure people know what they're judging Holland on. The teams that have been good the last couple of years, drafted their core between 2000 and 2010. Mostly in the first half of the 1st round.

This sh*t takes time and the worst thing you can do is get impatient. We are paying the price for being too good for too long and we've just barely started scratching the surface of what Holland can do with higher picks. Giving him more time is the smart thing to do. At least let him fail ONCE in the area of the draft where success is the expectation.

It's more of the method of the rebuild that I (and others) don't agree with. Holland created many of the problems that you're illustrating. Trading picks when it was obvious the team wasn't going to be good enough. Trying to make the playoffs at all costs when it was obvious the team wasn't a contender. He hasn't been a proactive rebuilder when it was painfully obvious this team has needed to rebuild for almost 5 years.

The team is loaded with bad contracts, we're the oldest team in the league and the team being bad this year wasn't on purpose, it was on accident. Teams that are at the cap aren't supposed to get a top 5 pick in the draft.

Now, I'm excited we're drafting high, but Holland deserves no credit for getting these top picks, this season is the opposite of what Holland was going for, so his job this season is an outright failure.

Hopefully if he's going to stay, he's learned from his mistakes and his message next season won't be playoffs. Because if it is, he's learned nothing and only the fans will pay for his mistakes.

 

[Perfect Human]

I saw a stat the other week that was pointing out that the Wings have either the most or second most one goal games and one goal losses in the NHL. If you look at the elite teams (blashillian comment) they can all get it done when they are down one goal or the game is tied or they have the lead. The wings simply cant start a game or finish a game. I do think they are close however as these issues are more signs of a young team than a bad team. They can score and they can skate, but they can't play defense, also a sign of a young team.

I really enjoy most of what is said on the boards and I am not a major contributor, but I am still a Wings fan and I will be a fan even if they die again and we see the Dead Wings out there.

The wings are close to being relevant again. look at their recent games against top teams in the east even when they are "slumping". 4-3 Toronto. 1-0 Washington. These are not blowout losses, they are bounce-driven losses, or as we say, one goal losses.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

Entering year one of their rebuild and the Wings decide to bring Holland back on a year to year basis. Remember all those other organizations that rebuilt with their GM taking one year deals?

At least we now know ownership is just as clueless as management.

Yeah, a concerns about the whole year to year thing is that is that it'll incentivize a rushed rebuild, and an unwillingness to bad for the length of time it actually takes to build a contender.

 

[Goalie guy]

Let's take a look at the top 10 teams (regular season) of the last 5 seasons and the top 3 players (imo) on those teams:

1. Washington - Ovechkin (#1OA 2004), Backstrom (#4OA 2006), Carlson (#27th OA 2008)
2. Anaheim - Getzlaf (#19OA 2003), Perry (#28OA 2003), Fowler (#12OA 2010)
3. St.Louis - Schwartz (#14OA 2010), Pietrangelo (#4OA 2008), Tarasenko (#16OA 2010)
4. Pittsburgh - Malkin (#2OA 2004), Crosby (#1OA 2005), Kessel (#5OA 2006)
5. Tampa Bay - Stamkos (#1OA 2008), Hedman (#2OA 2009), Kucherov (#58OA 2011)
6. Boston - Bergeron (#45OA 2003), Marchand (#71OA 2006), Pastrnak (#25OA 2014)
7. San Jose - Pavelski (#205 OA 2003), Couture (#9OA 2009), Burns (#20OA 2003)
8. Chicago - Kane (#1OA 2007), Toews (#3OA 2006), Keith (#54OA 2002)
9. Nashville - Forsberg (#11OA 2012), Subban (#43OA 2007), Josi (#38OA 2008)
10. NYR - Lundqvist (#205OA 2000), Mcdonagh (#12OA 2007), Zibanejad (#6OA 2011)

30 players.

26 were drafted 2010 or earlier. 29 were drafted 2012 or earlier.
19 were drafted in the top 20 of the 1st round. Holland had 1 pick in the top 20 before 2013.
16 were drafted with picks higher than any Holland had before 2017.

I'd just like to make sure people know what they're judging Holland on. The teams that have been good the last couple of years, drafted their core between 2000 and 2010. Mostly in the first half of the 1st round.

This sh*t takes time and the worst thing you can do is get impatient. We are paying the price for being too good for too long and we've just barely started scratching the surface of what Holland can do with higher picks. Giving him more time is the smart thing to do. At least let him fail ONCE in the area of the draft where success is the expectation.

But there is more to being a good GM than just drafting right? Has he not been giving more than ample time to do things? A 13 yr old could have seen the impending shit show our back end was going to be after loosing Raf and then Nick right? His plan was well we are the Wings and for sure one of the big name UFA would love to come here!! Nope, his flat out no hiding it mismanagement of contracts are another huge problem. So on and so on, I think the thought of a GM who's ego and his own self image and legacy out weigh the team has a lot of us who love the team sick. I'm in my early 40's and full well remember the early 80's and it was bad bad bad and that is where we are right now, only now no MrI, no Stevie, no Bowman, No Nill, That is what scares me just more of the same that got us to the bottom.

 

[Ezekial]

The wings simply cant start a game or finish a game.

I was surprised to hear a stat during a game recently about the wings leading through 2 periods maybe? Where they were like 20-2 this season. Crazy

Does anyone remember what Ken Daniels said in the broadcast?

 

[Heaton]

But there is more to being a good GM than just drafting right?

Considering Holland doesn't trade and can't sign top UFAs, all he has is drafting.

The Hasek trade (last true impact trade involving roster players) was almost 17 years ago.

 

[Henkka]

This is great news.

 

[Gilhuleh]

 

[Run the Jewels]

At least we now know Chris Ilitch doesn't give a f*** about winning. We'll get great players in spite of Ken Holland and his retool on the fly since we're awful and will draft in the top 10 for the foreseeable future.

This scouting staff had proven they are bad at drafting in the 2nd & 3rd rounds where you need to build out depth and draft guys who can compete sooner rather than later. So we'll fulfill Holland's prophecy about how rebuilds can take a decade or more. We're more likely to be Buffalo than Chicago or Pittsburgh.

I seriously hope Chris Ilitch sells the team, he's no Mike Ilitch.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Don't get me wrong, I have been very pleased with what Hollands done during the tank. Its what he does when we are competing that drives me up the wall.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Considering Holland doesn't trade and can't sign top UFAs, all he has is drafting.

The Hasek trade (last true impact trade involving roster players) was almost 17 years ago.

We needed a defenseman to make the most of the final years of Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Zetterberg. He did nothing. I do believe he'll make trades to stockpile draft picks, the problem is his scouting team is really underwhelming.

 

[FMichael]

Let's take a look at the top 10 teams (regular season) of the last 5 seasons and the top 3 players (imo) on those teams:

1. Washington - Ovechkin (#1OA 2004), Backstrom (#4OA 2006), Carlson (#27th OA 2008)
2. Anaheim - Getzlaf (#19OA 2003), Perry (#28OA 2003), Fowler (#12OA 2010)
3. St.Louis - Schwartz (#14OA 2010), Pietrangelo (#4OA 2008), Tarasenko (#16OA 2010)
4. Pittsburgh - Malkin (#2OA 2004), Crosby (#1OA 2005), Kessel (#5OA 2006)
5. Tampa Bay - Stamkos (#1OA 2008), Hedman (#2OA 2009), Kucherov (#58OA 2011)
6. Boston - Bergeron (#45OA 2003), Marchand (#71OA 2006), Pastrnak (#25OA 2014)
7. San Jose - Pavelski (#205 OA 2003), Couture (#9OA 2009), Burns (#20OA 2003)
8. Chicago - Kane (#1OA 2007), Toews (#3OA 2006), Keith (#54OA 2002)
9. Nashville - Forsberg (#11OA 2012), Subban (#43OA 2007), Josi (#38OA 2008)
10. NYR - Lundqvist (#205OA 2000), Mcdonagh (#12OA 2007), Zibanejad (#6OA 2011)

30 players.

26 were drafted 2010 or earlier. 29 were drafted 2012 or earlier.
19 were drafted in the top 20 of the 1st round. Holland had 1 pick in the top 20 before 2013.
16 were drafted with picks higher than any Holland had before 2017.

I'd just like to make sure people know what they're judging Holland on. The teams that have been good the last couple of years, drafted their core between 2000 and 2010. Mostly in the first half of the 1st round.

This sh*t takes time and the worst thing you can do is get impatient. We are paying the price for being too good for too long and we've just barely started scratching the surface of what Holland can do with higher picks. Giving him more time is the smart thing to do. At least let him fail ONCE in the area of the draft where success is the expectation.

This.

While I'm not the biggest fan of the guy - Holland at least seems to have a clue, and is well respected around the league.

Be wary of who replaces him, and while Blashill has 1 yr left under contract - his incompetence almost guarantees another top 10 pick for the 2019 draft.