News Article: [Update] ABOR approves updates for Coyotes to use ASU’s new arena next season.

[RemoAZ]

What are you even arguing here? You're disputing the demographics and numbers the Coyotes have? Are you disputing the amount of rinks east of central versus west of central? You make no sense at all except that this is personal to you and you're pissed the Coyotes are moving to where their fans largely exist and where most hockey fans live.

Sidenote re: Westgate being a ghost town on non game nights - this used to be true before Dave and Busters opened up. The problem is, the people going to westgate aren't hockey fans because demographically it isn't a hockey area. Westgate will be fine, the arena on the other hand... is City of Glendale's problem. It's hilarious that they are sinking even more money into it when they owe debt.

Zero corporate presence and lack of Canadians is simply not true but go ahead and continue to make shit up to "prove" your narrative. It's comical at this point. I don't blame you though. The team has doing this for years and you're just following along. Next time I'm in a meeting and they site the Canadian border closings hurting our numbers the last couple years I'll be sure to tell them that's only east valley stores so they fix their reports.

 

[RemoAZ]

John Daly can.

The sport was more interesting when John Daly was more prevalent. I don't like golf though so I'm sure I'm in the minority.

 

[Knights2017]

Zero corporate presence and lack of Canadians is simply not true but go ahead and continue to make shit up to "prove" your narrative. It's comical at this point. I don't blame you though. The team has doing this for years and you're just following along. Next time I'm in a meeting and they site the Canadian border closings hurting our numbers the last couple years I'll be sure to tell them that's only east valley stores so they fix their reports.

You’re talking about something completely separate. East valley stores? What?

What narrative? The stats and marketing demographics don’t lie.

 

[Jakey53]

For the life of me I do not understand watching golf. Let alone getting loaded whilst watching golf.

Do you play golf? I think hockey and golf are the hardest sport to play.

 

[Jakey53]

Remo, you’re taking it too personal. I’ve lived in surprise and worked in Avondale and Glendale. It’s not ignorant or an opinion. The coyotes have numbers and demographics to look at. The proof is in the pudding. Let it go

What are you even arguing here? You're disputing the demographics and numbers the Coyotes have? Are you disputing the amount of rinks east of central versus west of central? You make no sense at all except that this is personal to you and you're pissed the Coyotes are moving to where their fans largely exist and where most hockey fans live.

Sidenote re: Westgate being a ghost town on non game nights - this used to be true before Dave and Busters opened up. The problem is, the people going to westgate aren't hockey fans because demographically it isn't a hockey area. Westgate will be fine, the arena on the other hand... is City of Glendale's problem. It's hilarious that they are sinking even more money into it when they owe debt.

You are so full of it your eyes are brown. Have you seen those demographics? There are hockey fan though out Arizona, and true hockey fans will travel for a team worth watching. All things being equal, Tempe is a better location, but Gila River would have worked if there was proper ownership for the last twenty years.

 

[Knights2017]

You are so full of it your eyes are brown. Have you seen those demographics? There are hockey fan though out Arizona, and true hockey fans will travel for a team worth watching. All things being equal, Tempe is a better location, but Gila River would have worked if there was proper ownership for the last twenty years.

When I mentioned I used to work in Glendale, take a guess where.. I have seen the numbers for myself.

Gila River would've worked if Glendale didn't destroy the lease, and only in that scenario to make up for the disadvantageous location for the organization.

 

[Knights2017]

A ton of excitement in this interview:

INTERVIEW: XAVIER GUTIERREZ

 

[MIGs Dog]

Do you play golf? I think hockey and golf are the hardest sport to play.

Hitting a baseball is harder because someone is trying to make you miss.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I just don't get the bashing of the west side.

I grew up in Paradise Valley, so I get it. I just don't understand why myths about the west side from the 1980s persist today.

The coyotes have numbers and demographics to look at.

You're disputing the demographics and numbers the Coyotes have?

Hell yes, I'm disputing the numbers and demos released by the Coyotes. Wouldn't you? I mean, given the character of the people who released them, and the context of their "performance" as the ownership group of the club? I wouldn't trust the Grift Circus of IceArizona to tell me the sun will rise tomorrow, man. The NHL and IA paraded a false dilemma fallacy out to the public because they wanted to divert attention from LeBlanc and pals' abject abdication of their responsibilities, demonize Glendale, and find some other Valley city to give them public money for a new barn.

The new Tempe arena - if it ever comes to pass - is going to be in a great location. There's no disputing that at all. It will be better than Glendale for the club. But it's not like the Coyotes are being promoted out of Dante's Hell to Paradise. The Arizonans who live closer to the Tempe arena site are in no way, shape, or form more passionate or, indeed, more likely to attend Coyotes games than in other parts of the metro area once the novelty factor wears off. You talk about numbers - well, you can look at the numbers from America West Arena before the Coyotes moved west to see how "strong" East Valley support was. And spare me the historical excuses - there are always excuses.

Well, my friend, we have run clean out of excuses now. If the Tempe arena goes through, we will be left with absolutely zero of the crutches we have all used to explain away why we can't fill our barn. We'll have the rich owner, we'll have the primo location, we'll have the dozens of draft picks, we'll have the hot prospects, and we'll have the good coach and GM. So my advice to all of you who feel like the team has moved up in class in every aspect of that phrase is this - sell out the goddamned arena every night from minute 1 in Tempe, and don't stop.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Can someone link the document/plans for the permanent Tempe arena proposal? I can’t seem to find it anywhere. Hopefully someone knows what I’m talking about.

 

[MIGs Dog]

don't understand why myths about the west side from the 1980s persist today.

I don't claim to be an expert, but a couple of months ago we drove from N Scottsdale out to Surprise where my sister is building a house. Holy cow that area is growing fast. We went by the TSMC plant being built out in that area.; North of 303 and west of I17. Counted 10 cranes in the sky. Looked pretty much like this.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I don't claim to be an expert, but a couple of months ago we drove from N Scottsdale out to Surprise where my sister is building a house. Holy cow that area is growing fast. We went by the TSMC plant being built out in that area.; North of 303 and west of I17. Counted 10 cranes in the sky. Looked pretty much like this.

I've seen construction projects in Arizona in the 44 years I've lived here, but nothing ever this big. This campus is going to be HUGE.

 

[Tom Polakis]

I grew up in Paradise Valley, so I get it. I just don't understand why myths about the west side from the 1980s persist today.

The new Tempe arena - if it ever comes to pass - is going to be in a great location. There's no disputing that at all. It will be better than Glendale for the club. But it's not like the Coyotes are being promoted out of Dante's Hell to Paradise. The Arizonans who live closer to the Tempe arena site are in no way, shape, or form more passionate or, indeed, more likely to attend Coyotes games than in other parts of the metro area once the novelty factor wears off. You talk about numbers - well, you can look at the numbers from America West Arena before the Coyotes moved west to see how "strong" East Valley support was. And spare me the historical excuses - there are always excuses.

To avoid resorting to an extreme position so common in arguments, perhaps the correct answer is that an arena east of Central would have drawn an additional 1000 or so fans. A losing team still wouldn't have filled the place. Even a location as good as Los Arcos would have been tenuous with the way the team has performed.

You'd think that, other than winning, two major factors in filling a barn would be disposable income and interest in hockey. I just looked at a heat map of income distribution, which everyone knows strongly favors the east Valley. These are the people complaining about the long drive. Likewise, the majority of ice sheets are on the east side. That said, if the arena were located in east Mesa, I'm sure it would have the same problems as it does on 95th Ave.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

You'd think that, other than winning, two major factors in filling a barn would be disposable income and interest in hockey. I just looked at a heat map of income distribution, which everyone knows strongly favors the east Valley.

But the Venn Diagram of high-income Valley residents and hockey-passionate (or even hockey-interested) people is not a perfect circle.

And look, it's not like filling a hockey arena is very difficult. Max capacity at Gila River Arena was 17,500 and change. AWA/Footprint Center was only very slightly higher. In a metropolitan area of nearly 4.5 million people, the inability to fill that level of capacity in either location is pretty stark, even taking into account the theoretical 1,000 additional fans that would show up simply because the arena is east of Central Avenue.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

What are you even arguing here? You're disputing the demographics and numbers the Coyotes have? Are you disputing the amount of rinks east of central versus west of central? You make no sense at all except that this is personal to you and you're pissed the Coyotes are moving to where their fans largely exist and where most hockey fans live.

I did a quick count for an employee just this morning, I believe nine sheets east of Central Ave. and three to the west (to include GRA).

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Do you play golf? I think hockey and golf are the hardest sport to play.

Except golf blows because of the extreme lack of cadio activity.

 

[Jamieh]

Except golf blows because of the extreme lack of cadio activity.

Try walking, it's more than you think.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I did a quick count for an employee just this morning, I believe nine sheets east of Central Ave. and three to the west (to include GRA).

It's at least 10 east - Arcadia, Scottsdale x3, Oceanside (for now), Chandler x2, Gilbert x2, Mesa (which I still need to go check out, darn it Home) . Oceanside will eventually go away to be replaced by ASU x2.

 

[Stubu]

On a lighter note...

The proof is in the pudding.

Why would you put the proof in the pudding? Isn't it rather difficult and messy to get it out of there again?

(The original is "The proof of the pudding is in the eating.")

This ain't really even a pet peeve, just couldn't resist the chance to smartass.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Try walking, it's more than you think.

Try catching this old man on the ice.... you'll look the fool!
Golf ain't gonna cut it for me... maybe when I'm in my 80's

 

[Coyotedroppings]

It's at least 10 east - Arcadia, Scottsdale x3, Oceanside (for now), Chandler x2, Gilbert x2, Mesa (which I still need to go check out, darn it Home) . Oceanside will eventually go away to be replaced by ASU x2.

Mesa, Kachina's, I knew I left one out!

 

[Jamieh]

Try catching this old man on the ice.... you'll look the fool!
Golf ain't gonna cut it for me... maybe when I'm in my 80's

I can catch you on the ice with ease. Part of the reason is I walk 12,000 steps with elevations playing golf daily!!!

 

[Tom Polakis]

But the Venn Diagram of high-income Valley residents and hockey-passionate (or even hockey-interested) people is not a perfect circle.

And look, it's not like filling a hockey arena is very difficult. Max capacity at Gila River Arena was 17,500 and change. AWA/Footprint Center was only very slightly higher. In a metropolitan area of nearly 4.5 million people, the inability to fill that level of capacity in either location is pretty stark, even taking into account the theoretical 1,000 additional fans that would show up simply because the arena is east of Central Avenue.

I couldn't agree more. My only point was that an east Valley location would have resulted in larger attendance, not in filling the place.

As I've said too many times, if the NHL can work in Tampa, Dallas, and Las Vegas, it can certainly work here. The population of those cities is similar or less, and the demographic breakdown isn't all that different.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

if the NHL can work in Tampa, Dallas, and Las Vegas, it can certainly work here.

Heh, I literally said this yesterday, a Canadian ex-special forces guy ended up on one of my beer league teams about 10 years ago, he's back in Nova Scotia now, but I hear from him occasionally. Big Leafs fan, natuarlly. Yesterday he jumped into a facebook thread of mine commenting on "5K ARENA?! OUTRAGEOUS!" with all of the usual "logic" that goes with it. I replied, having personally spent half my life in central Florida, the above.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Heh, I literally said this yesterday, a Canadian ex-special forces guy ended up on one of my beer league teams about 10 years ago, he's back in Nova Scotia now, but I hear from him occasionally. Big Leafs fan, natuarlly. Yesterday he jumped into a facebook thread of mine commenting on "5K ARENA?! OUTRAGEOUS!" with all of the usual "logic" that goes with it. I replied, having personally spent half my life in central Florida, the above.

Tampa is a great example, particularly if you've lived there. I think the best example is Las Vegas, also a desert city of mostly transplants, with half of the Valley's population. Man, what could it possibly be that makes Vegas so much better of a hockey market?

The facile points that are made are astounding.