Up front help and we're set to seriously challenge

[Rapala]

Bozak has Kessel boosting his stats. Plekanec is the offensive leader on his line which is a big difference. He may be getting up in age but whenever he's used in an offensive role with other quality offensive players he produces.

There are probably about 9-10 teams where he'd be the number one center, granted most of those teams are at the bottom of the standings but a case can be made that he's a first liner, just not a high end first liner.

i look at the forwards in terms of top 6. I felt we had 3 top 6 players to start the year.Max Chucky Pleck.
I also felt it is imperative to get to 4. My logic being two top 6 per line can convert a fringe player to a top 6 i.e. Gallagher & PAP. We are not there yet...

 

[Sorinth]

i look at the forwards in terms of top 6. I felt we had 3 top 6 players to start the year.Max Chucky Pleck.
I also felt it is imperative to get to 4. My logic being two top 6 per line can convert a fringe player to a top 6 i.e. Gallagher & PAP. We are not there yet...

What on earth is your definition of a top-6 player? Two average top-6 players don't turn a fringe player into a top-6 player, only 1st liners elevate the game of others like that.

The 180th ranked forward (ie the least productive top-6 player) had 32 points last season. That's the threshold to be a top-6 player. Now obviously if we are going to be a contender we need our players to be better than the low-end players. But you're still looking at 30-45 points for an average 2nd liner.

Chicago has 4 legitimate 1st liner, but the #5 & #6 guys had 47 and 39 points. So I have a hard time believing a guy like Gallagher wouldn't make every teams top-6. And if every team would use him in the top-6 how is he only a fringe top-6 player.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What on earth is your definition of a top-6 player? Two average top-6 players don't turn a fringe player into a top-6 player, only 1st liners elevate the game of others like that.

The 180th ranked forward (ie the least productive top-6 player) had 32 points last season. That's the threshold to be a top-6 player. Now obviously if we are going to be a contender we need our players to be better than the low-end players. But you're still looking at 30-45 points for an average 2nd liner.

Chicago has 4 legitimate 1st liner, but the #5 & #6 guys had 47 and 39 points. So I have a hard time believing a guy like Gallagher wouldn't make every teams top-6. And if every team would use him in the top-6 how is he only a fringe top-6 player.

Based on his style and the amount of energy he has to use, and the abuse he takes, I think it would be best for him to play around 14 mins per game. That makes him a good candidate for a 3rd line role, but of course he could fill in on the Top-6 due to injuries or even just missing talent.

Ideally, he would be on my great third line.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

Based on his style and the amount of energy he has to use, and the abuse he takes, I think it would be best for him to play around 14 mins per game. That makes him a good candidate for a 3rd line role, but of course he could fill in on the Top-6 due to injuries or even just missing talent.

Ideally, he would be on my great third line.

Well, if your thinking along those lines it might be better to use him like Marchand was in Boston last season, with pretty big ES minutes where he is a very effective complimentary scorer and sparingly on the power play which he isn't particularly good at. Gallagher is great at ES scoring as he's a good forechecker and great at eluding traffic in fluid situations. The abuse he takes as a stationary player in front of the net on the power play isn't a very efficient use of his body or skill set.

 

[Sorinth]

Based on his style and the amount of energy he has to use, and the abuse he takes, I think it would be best for him to play around 14 mins per game. That makes him a good candidate for a 3rd line role, but of course he could fill in on the Top-6 due to injuries or even just missing talent.

Ideally, he would be on my great third line.

And ideally Malkin would be my second line center.

If he was 6'4 and played the same style of play would you still still want him on the 3rd line playing 14 minutes? Of course not and since there is no link between size and injuries it makes no sense to play him on the 3rd line just because he's small and plays in front of the net.

 

[Rapala]

What on earth is your definition of a top-6 player? Two average top-6 players don't turn a fringe player into a top-6 player, only 1st liners elevate the game of others like that.

The 180th ranked forward (ie the least productive top-6 player) had 32 points last season. That's the threshold to be a top-6 player. Now obviously if we are going to be a contender we need our players to be better than the low-end players. But you're still looking at 30-45 points for an average 2nd liner.

Chicago has 4 legitimate 1st liner, but the #5 & #6 guys had 47 and 39 points. So I have a hard time believing a guy like Gallagher wouldn't make every teams top-6. And if every team would use him in the top-6 how is he only a fringe top-6 player.

Gallagher can play a top six but needs to play with bangers of which we don't have any.
It's a matter of fortitude. IMO
The best we can do is get him on a 3rd where he can breath a little.

I was watching the Pens beat Boston with Crosby and Hornqvist Malkin and Kunitz as the Top 4 forwards i think they had Megna with Crosby and Comeau with Malkin. They are trying to balance out their size a bit more than they have in tne past. Smaller lines get leaned on and tire it is as simple as that.
The reason I detest DD in his current role...
He will never have the fortitude to be able to fight through his checks in the playoffs.

PS they did throw Malkin out with Crosby for the OT winner?
Were you watching Letang PK?

 

[Sorinth]

Gallagher can play a top six but needs to play with bangers of which we don't have any.
It's a matter of fortitude. IMO
The best we can do is get him on a 3rd where he can breath a little.

There is little evidence to support the idea that playing with "bangers" would reduce the abuse a guy like Gallagher takes.

I was watching the Pens beat Boston with Crosby and Hornqvist Malkin and Kunitz as the Top 4 forwards i think they had Megna with Crosby and Comeau with Malkin. They are trying to balance out their size a bit more than they have in tne past. Smaller lines get leaned on and tire it is as simple as that.

Does Pittsburgh even have anybody after those 4?

They've always played nobodies or over the hill players with Crosby/Malkin because they don't have better options.

Personally I'd like to see Gallagher on the 3rd line with Eller because they have good chemistry and gives us 3 strong scoring lines. That doesn't make him a fringe top-6 player, just like Malkin playing on the 2nd line doesn't mean he's a fringer 1st liner.

 

[Rapala]

There is little evidence to support the idea that playing with "bangers" would reduce the abuse a guy like Gallagher takes.



Does Pittsburgh even have anybody after those 4?

They've always played nobodies or over the hill players with Crosby/Malkin because they don't have better options.

Personally I'd like to see Gallagher on the 3rd line with Eller because they have good chemistry and gives us 3 strong scoring lines. That doesn't make him a fringe top-6 player, just like Malkin playing on the 2nd line doesn't mean he's a fringer 1st liner.

I think he'd have more room to operate. It's an assumption based on logic. If he's slotted in with Eller and Sekac they are doing a lot of heavy lifting as well. Max and DD do next to none and Chucky gets his nose dirty but Plecky wont.

But Gallagher is not top 6 in my book he lacks the skills. Sekac has more Top 6 potential than Brendan
as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ginu]

And yet he's contributing to a first place team, while Perron...

And doesn't get a point as your #1 center in the playoffs. Make him captain.

Can people seriously start looking at what requires playoff success rather than the regular season which means absolutely nothing? There's a reason Bergevin regularly says "just get in the playoffs". Nobody cares if you make the playoffs and get bounced.

I don't care about Perron but the DD support is seriously a problem.If he was a 3rd line winger I wouldn't care. He's our #1 center. Wake up people.

 

[BaseballCoach]

And ideally Malkin would be my second line center.

If he was 6'4 and played the same style of play would you still still want him on the 3rd line playing 14 minutes? Of course not and since there is no link between size and injuries it makes no sense to play him on the 3rd line just because he's small and plays in front of the net.

Nothing to do with size. I want him playing 14 minutes all-out and not 18 minutes but preserving energy at times.

It<s like the so-called 4th line of the 70s: Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert

They had some size and some skill and could put up points, but their STYLE prevented them from playing 18 minutes per night.

Just like Malkin is a great 2nd line center, Pacioretty is a great 2nd line winger. Like Malkin, he can join the first wave of the PP, and get his 18-19 minutes, but I like Separating him from Pleks-Galchy.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Parenteau
Sekac-Eller-Gallagher
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Weise (eventually McCarron)
Bournival-Malhotra-Prust

One first line, two second lines and a defensive line that can play 12-14 minutes if needed with a lead.

 

[Adam Spylo]

Brouwer would be great for the playoffs

Brouwer would help to improve the power-play for sure.

 

[Rapala]

Brouwer would help to improve the power-play for sure.

There are so many good options out there some short term some long term...

 

[Sorinth]

Nothing to do with size. I want him playing 14 minutes all-out and not 18 minutes but preserving energy at times.

It<s like the so-called 4th line of the 70s: Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert

They had some size and some skill and could put up points, but their STYLE prevented them from playing 18 minutes per night.

Just like Malkin is a great 2nd line center, Pacioretty is a great 2nd line winger. Like Malkin, he can join the first wave of the PP, and get his 18-19 minutes, but I like Separating him from Pleks-Galchy.

Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Parenteau
Sekac-Eller-Gallagher
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Weise (eventually McCarron)
Bournival-Malhotra-Prust

One first line, two second lines and a defensive line that can play 12-14 minutes if needed with a lead.

Malkin isn't considered a 2nd line center though, he's considered an elite 1st line center. He just happens to play on the 2nd line because they have an even more elite center as well.

Having depth so that a 2nd liner plays on the 3rd line is great, but doesn't change the fact he's still a 2nd liner.

Does PK's all out style prevent him from playing more than 14min a night? Plenty of players give max effort all the time and play more than 14min a night.

 

[Rapala]

Malkin isn't considered a 2nd line center though, he's considered an elite 1st line center. He just happens to play on the 2nd line because they have an even more elite center as well.

Having depth so that a 2nd liner plays on the 3rd line is great, but doesn't change the fact he's still a 2nd liner.

Does PK's all out style prevent him from playing more than 14min a night? Plenty of players give max effort all the time and play more than 14min a night.

True,
We have Max cranking out 23:00 minutes now on a regular basis.
Most of the Elite players are in the 15:00 - 17:00 minute mark ES and then PP and or PK time.
I haven't studied Malkin's TOI but the Pens generally play their top two lines evenly.
Malkin seems to be the pivot guy as he will join Crosby's line when needed and is always on the first wave of the power play.

 

[Sorinth]

I think he'd have more room to operate. It's an assumption based on logic. If he's slotted in with Eller and Sekac they are doing a lot of heavy lifting as well. Max and DD do next to none and Chucky gets his nose dirty but Plecky wont.

But Gallagher is not top 6 in my book he lacks the skills. Sekac has more Top 6 potential than Brendan
as far as I'm concerned.

There are lots of ways to open up space for linemates that has nothing to do with size. Speedy players can open up space because it forces defenders to back off, puck handling skills can open up space by beating/threatening a defender one on one, etc...

Gallagher has produced like a top-6 player since he came into the league. That doesn't happen if you lack skills. That said I think Gallagher is a good fit with Eller, their styles complement each other better than Desharnais. But I also consider Eller capable of a top-6 role.

 

[Rapala]

There are lots of ways to open up space for linemates that has nothing to do with size. Speedy players can open up space because it forces defenders to back off, puck handling skills can open up space by beating/threatening a defender one on one, etc...

Gallagher has produced like a top-6 player since he came into the league. That doesn't happen if you lack skills. That said I think Gallagher is a good fit with Eller, their styles complement each other better than Desharnais. But I also consider Eller capable of a top-6 role.

There is no question speed will create space but to say size doesn't isn't fair.
Teams use size as a legal pick all the time in the O zone. Teams also use size along the boards to wear down defenders and create space. Defenders get beat having to go around or through a player. This clearly opens up ice for smaller players. In Brendan's case I agree with you he is more suited to Eller and Sekac's style of play. When i say we have 3 top 6 players on this team I'm commenting on our makeup. I don't see two small players on either of the top two lines having great success long term. Playoffs are a long term proposal...

 

[gunnerdom]

There are so many good options out there some short term some long term...

It's only an option if the other team is ready to play ball.

 

[Sorinth]

There is no question speed will create space but to say size doesn't isn't fair.
Teams use size as a legal pick all the time in the O zone. Teams also use size along the boards to wear down defenders and create space. Defenders get beat having to go around or through a player. This clearly opens up ice for smaller players. In Brendan's case I agree with you he is more suited to Eller and Sekac's style of play. When i say we have 3 top 6 players on this team I'm commenting on our makeup. I don't see two small players on either of the top two lines having great success long term. Playoffs are a long term proposal...

I never said size doesn't help create space, it's just one of many factors that can open up space. So to say he has to play with "bangers" in order to open up space just isn't true. Especially since he's not a player who needs tons of open space since he's always in front of the net.

Again what the hell is your definition of top-6 player? Because Gallagher has produced like a good 2nd line forward so it can't be production, which means it has to be size. Brad Marchand is small and plays a similar gritty style, he's averaged 57 points over the past 4 seasons. Is he also a 3rd liner? What about MSL is he also a third liner because of his size?

 

[Rapala]

It's only an option if the other team is ready to play ball.

We should see some movement before Jan. IMO.
In our case MB likes to do his Christmas shopping early before too many shoppers clog the aisles.

 

[Rapala]

I never said size doesn't help create space, it's just one of many factors that can open up space. So to say he has to play with "bangers" in order to open up space just isn't true. Especially since he's not a player who needs tons of open space since he's always in front of the net.

Yet you argue my point when I do?

Again what the hell is your definition of top-6 player? Because Gallagher has produced like a good 2nd line forward so it can't be production, which means it has to be size. Brad Marchand is small and plays a similar gritty style, he's averaged 57 points over the past 4 seasons. Is he also a 3rd liner? What about MSL is he also a third liner because of his size?

A bonafide top 6 is an elite player able to do more than one thing well.
Gallagher is an elite grinder.
My standards are obviously a HELL of a lot higher than yours.

Using Marchand and MSL is a stretch on your part both have far more puck handling ability than Gally.
Marchand is fringe and often sucks. He played a good portion of his career with Bergeron and Lucic and did pretty well exploiting poor defensive lines.
Using MSL as an example is a joke plain and simple.

Gallagher is NOT top 6 material on his own. Give him the proper linemates and he can fill the role.
Plecky and DD are not the ideal centers for him.

 

[Big Lurk]

Yeah that's totally what I said. I guess if you can't win an argument you better invent another one.

Then explain what you wrote because thats pretty much what I got from your post, too.

 

[Sorinth]

A bonafide top 6 is an elite player able to do more than one thing well.
Gallagher is an elite grinder.
My standards are obviously a HELL of a lot higher than yours.

Your standards make no sense. If a top-6 player is an elite player what is a first liner?

How many top-6 players are in the NHL?

 

[Rapala]

Your standards make no sense. If a top-6 player is an elite player what is a first liner?

How many top-6 players are in the NHL?

I'm referring to stand alone top 6 vs filler top 6 so perhaps i am not representing my case properly.
TP is a stand alone top 6 player, consistent two way, can produce, good defensively and can play PP as well as PK. He handles the puck well he reads the play well and would be a superstar if he had stature.

Gallagher is not a stand alone top 6, he is the hardest working individual on the team and he probably has the best attitude from what i see. He isn't the fatest player but is quick. He isn't the best shooter but can shoot, he's not a terrific puck handler but has some moves. This is all based on what he has shown us to date. Is there more talent or skill to be found in his game? Not in his current role IMO.
That being said he is limited in what he can bring to a top line a Jack of all grind if you will. So you wouldn't build a line around him but would look to add his element to a line.
If the composition of out 1st and 2nd lines change he may be the ideal fit for now i think not.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

The Habs are contenders to win it all but, in my opinion, they lack punch up front to be considered a top three favorite for the cup.

While their defense has gotten older (and slower) with Gonchar and Allen – I am not convinced that by February or March – that either or both of Tinordi and Beaulieu will be part of the starting line-up after regaining some confidence in Hamilton.
Back to the forwards, we need a jolt up front. In my view – here are assets we can use to improve this.

We have Desharnais, Parenteau, Fucale, Nygren, Pateryn, Thrower, our second pick from Buffalo (for Josh Gorges) that we could dangle to help us up front.
We don’t need superstars – but a couple of solid wingers would really make the difference.

Pac Galchenyuk Gallagher
Perron (Edm) Plek Sekac
Prust Eller Stewart (Buffalo)
Bournival Malhotra Weise

Can we put packages together to receive a Perron and Stewart type players. My thought is Desharnais and Parenteau, for cap reasons, will have to be involved in the trades so will need to add some prospects to make it happen.

Ex:
Desharnais, Pateryn and Fucale for Perron
Parenteau, Nygren and 2nd Round Pick(from Buffalo) for Stewart?

Thoughts?

I like the base idea but your trade offer are terrible sry... Although I would take Perron if we don't have to give up too much (Fucale only goes for a top player), Stewart I wouldn't touch.. guy can't even produce in a contract year? Yeah he once had a bright future and I was shocked when the Avs let him go to the blues, but he's clearly prove them right. I'd maybe spare a 7th rounder for him but that's about it

 

[Sorinth]

I'm referring to stand alone top 6 vs filler top 6 so perhaps i am not representing my case properly.
TP is a stand alone top 6 player, consistent two way, can produce, good defensively and can play PP as well as PK. He handles the puck well he reads the play well and would be a superstar if he had stature.

Gallagher is not a stand alone top 6, he is the hardest working individual on the team and he probably has the best attitude from what i see. He isn't the fatest player but is quick. He isn't the best shooter but can shoot, he's not a terrific puck handler but has some moves. This is all based on what he has shown us to date. Is there more talent or skill to be found in his game? Not in his current role IMO.
That being said he is limited in what he can bring to a top line a Jack of all grind if you will. So you wouldn't build a line around him but would look to add his element to a line.
If the composition of out 1st and 2nd lines change he may be the ideal fit for now i think not.

The player ranked 91st in scoring last season, which means he's the most productive 2nd liner in the league had 50 points. That doesn't scream elite player who can produce consistently in standalone.

It really sounds like when you say top-6 you really mean 1st liner, like Plekanec who is an average to below average 1st liner.