Post-Game Talk: Unpolished knob but still a win

[bellagiobob]

 

[Drivesaitl]

We had the same thoughts on Yamo early on, and I think ultimately were proven right.

My concerns were more that Yams game wasn't going to survive the playing against NHL size for very long. That he would either get injured or get ineffective. he's chosen both. My lord its fun to watch him play for an opponent and ruin scoring oppotunities and get pummelled.

mcD giving the stinkeye was kind of funny. yams tried to run McD into the boards. McD caught his number and glared at him. "f*** off fly"

I think Holloway could be much different. He's bigger, stronger, but one of his problems is jacked compete level that opens himself up. he has to take his time and figure out, game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

 

[Heavy Dee]

Did he say something about not being yelled at? Lol

 

[TheNumber4]

We should have done what Vegas has been doing and just traded all these picks for immediate NHL help. Holloway pick, Broberg pick, etc. etc. etc.

Can’t disagree there, especially Brobust. I said we years ago to trade him while he still had any value. Even the long extended look at Pool had a huge opportunity cost.

 

[Soundwave]

Can’t disagree there, especially Brobust. I said we years ago to trade him while he still had any value. Even the long extended look at Pool had a huge opportunity cost.

Even the Puljujarvi pick, it would've been better if we could have done like Puljujarvi for Adam Larsson instead of Taylor Hall.

Chia had a hard on for acquiring Lucic.

 

[TheNumber4]

My concerns were more that Yams game wasn't going to survive the playing against NHL size for very long. That he would either get injured or get ineffective. he's chosen both. My lord its fun to watch him play for an opponent and ruin scoring oppotunities and get pummelled.

mcD giving the stinkey was kind of funny. yams tried to run McD into the boards. McD caught his number and glared at him. "f*** off fly"

I think Holloway could be much different. He's bigger, stronger, but one of his problems is jacked compete level that opens himself up. he has to take his time and figure out, game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

I agree. While they both have issues with NHL physicality it’s different. With Yams I didn’t think he had the awareness or skill combination to avoid that contact, and with his size that contact was going to be significant.

With Holloway, he’s built bigger and should be able to take some contact in his game and work with it, but it’s that lay it on the line attitude that will get him in trouble.

 

[oldtimersask]

I kind of think McLeod stops up like he does because he see's Drai doing it so often. But Drai is the best player and finder of open players in the world. So that its a working strategy for him.

A working strategy for McLeod would be to show him Todd Marchant films. Just simplify your game. Use speed to heat seek missile puck to net. Either skate it to net or just put puck there for rebounds. McLeod has to learn how to be a garbage player and make the greasy plays. Its what Knob was referring to when he says hockey plays so often involve just doing the small things that a player can do. For McLeod its use his speed to break contain. Sweeping behind net not bad either.

McLeod has played the same way since he was a kid.

I was a bit concerned hearing Knoblauch talking about McLeod before anyone else, saying he had a great game. That's not really the player I'd be singling out after last night. It already has me questioning, although it's a fair mistake to make, the analysis in Mr. Knoblauch's arsenal.

Of course at first glance you watch McLeod fly up the ice with the puck and think damn, what a player. Any casual fan or someone new to the game would watch last night and pick him out as a standout simply due to his speed. He really is the fastest guy on the ice every shift he takes. Some of us have been watching long enough to know that his game is never going to change.

Someone likened him to Mason Raymond in the other thread, but even Mason Raymond had more jam to his game. More courage. McLeod is a nothing player, and despite being one of the fastest players on earth, is entirely anemic in terms of impact on a game. Until he starts playing like Holloway and Foegele he won't be worth having in a lineup. It's extra frustrating because his speed could make him a real good player if his soul wasn't as scared.

I can't remember Todd Marchant playing like this at any point in his career, and I doubt you can transform from being a wholly perimeter, soft guy to a warhorse on a whim. Same goes with RNH, we're never going to get anything different from those guys. Some men have it in them and some don't. Tons of players don't make the NHL for the same struggles as McLeod. If he wasn't the fastest player on the ice, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. It's the sole thing keeping him here -- a hope that he will eventually find the tenacity that will turn him into a player.

For our sake, let's hope. Would be great to add a real useful 3C to the group.

 

[Oilhawks]

We could see Warren reach a new height with Garlic, he did coach him in the past IIRC and the guy seems happy. Couple that with an already very good season (could put up more points but his overall play has been great).

 

[oobga]

Connor Brown is all smiles in practice. I would be too if I knew just getting back in the lineup would cash in a 3.225M bonus.

 

[K1984]

Absolutely noticed more D puch rushes from Nurse and Booch and this used to be a staple in Nurse's game so its odd we were seeing less of it before.

its about using skillsets and if that skillset is there to skate the puck in why not do it? Should see more of it from Ekholm too when healthy and Broberg getting another opportunity down the line.

Ceci is somebody that can skate and make plays in opponent zone but really got away from that as well.

Nurse using his feet more in all situations in general is critical to the success of this game.

He's absolutely terrible at passing and making cerebral defensive reads, so I don't understand why so many people want to see him skate less and pass/make reads more. The first coach that forces him to default to skating first before he even thinks about making a breakout pass is going to get a lot more out of him.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I didn’t see this last night either. Drai got lucky it was just a fine.

Do people know Horvat slewfooted Leon 10 seconds earlier...

Absolutely noticed more D puch rushes from Nurse and Booch and this used to be a staple in Nurse's game so its odd we were seeing less of it before.

its about using skillsets and if that skillset is there to skate the puck in why not do it? Should see more of it from Ekholm too when healthy and Broberg getting another opportunity down the line.

Ceci is somebody that can skate and make plays in opponent zone but really got away from that as well.

Nurse did a lot of it during junior too and I agree. It's a staple in his game. It's been helping his game a lot

 

[Arpeggio]

Did he say something about not being yelled at? Lol

I've heard that Woodcroft was actually pretty hard on guys in private, not like in a problematic way, just that he wasn't afraid of laying into them. I think the perception is that he was pretty soft on guys, but my understanding is that he gave it to them pretty good when they were playing poorly.

I don't think that's what Foegele was referencing here, but just thought I'd pass it along as I thought that was pretty interesting.

 

[Drivesaitl]

McLeod has played the same way since he was a kid.

I was a bit concerned hearing Knoblauch talking about McLeod before anyone else, saying he had a great game. That's not really the player I'd be singling out after last night. It already has me questioning, although it's a fair mistake to make, the analysis in Mr. Knoblauch's arsenal.

Of course at first glance you watch McLeod fly up the ice with the puck and think damn, what a player. Any casual fan or someone new to the game would watch last night and pick him out as a standout simply due to his speed. He really is the fastest guy on the ice every shift he takes. Some of us have been watching long enough to know that his game is never going to change.

Someone likened him to Mason Raymond in the other thread, but even Mason Raymond had more jam to his game. More courage. McLeod is a nothing player, and despite being one of the fastest players on earth, is entirely anemic in terms of impact on a game. Until he starts playing like Holloway and Foegele he won't be worth having in a lineup. It's extra frustrating because his speed could make him a real good player if his soul wasn't as scared.

I can't remember Todd Marchant playing like this at any point in his career, and I doubt you can transform from being a wholly perimeter, soft guy to a warhorse on a whim. Same goes with RNH, we're never going to get anything different from those guys. Some men have it in them and some don't. Tons of players don't make the NHL for the same struggles as McLeod. If he wasn't the fastest player on the ice, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. It's the sole thing keeping him here -- a hope that he will eventually find the tenacity that will turn him into a player.

For our sake, let's hope. Would be great to add a real useful 3C to the group.

Excellent rundown. Have to say I was one of those that was fooled with the speed and puck carrying with McLeod. Impressed me how easily he could gain zones.

Yeah, with the Todd Marchant thing It wasn't comparison, just wish McLeod could be that kind of player.

That said Tipp got more out of Mcleod than Woody ever did here so we will see. But at this point its hope isn't it.

 

[Yuke]

That’s the FANS idea is to punish and hold accountable. Players and coaches and management don’t have worries about accountability; they feel they have it in the room and hold eachother accountable. Drai made a boo boo out of frustration, the amount of crap he takes from other players that the league allows, I don’t blame him for it. And then he comes back and essentially carries the team to a win with his 4 point night. I’ll take the win over the slight possibility that making Drai feel guilt would have made him a better player somehow.

Not fans at all, Huberdeau just got sat, but for a whole period.
I'm sure he would have had his 4 points either way.

 

[TheNumber4]

Anyone else feel like they got a huge injection of Hope last night. It’s Jackson’s move, not Holland, which is what I wanted and first impressions on Knob are good.

f***in Oilers, everytime I think I’m out they pull me back in!

 

[iCanada]

McLeod has played the same way since he was a kid.

I was a bit concerned hearing Knoblauch talking about McLeod before anyone else, saying he had a great game. That's not really the player I'd be singling out after last night. It already has me questioning, although it's a fair mistake to make, the analysis in Mr. Knoblauch's arsenal.

Of course at first glance you watch McLeod fly up the ice with the puck and think damn, what a player. Any casual fan or someone new to the game would watch last night and pick him out as a standout simply due to his speed. He really is the fastest guy on the ice every shift he takes. Some of us have been watching long enough to know that his game is never going to change.

Someone likened him to Mason Raymond in the other thread, but even Mason Raymond had more jam to his game. More courage. McLeod is a nothing player, and despite being one of the fastest players on earth, is entirely anemic in terms of impact on a game. Until he starts playing like Holloway and Foegele he won't be worth having in a lineup. It's extra frustrating because his speed could make him a real good player if his soul wasn't as scared.

I can't remember Todd Marchant playing like this at any point in his career, and I doubt you can transform from being a wholly perimeter, soft guy to a warhorse on a whim. Same goes with RNH, we're never going to get anything different from those guys. Some men have it in them and some don't. Tons of players don't make the NHL for the same struggles as McLeod. If he wasn't the fastest player on the ice, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. It's the sole thing keeping him here -- a hope that he will eventually find the tenacity that will turn him into a player.

For our sake, let's hope. Would be great to add a real useful 3C to the group.

I thought McLeod brought a lot of jam last night tbh. Usually he's a bit lacking in that area, but if he brings that the rest of the year I'm ok with that.

 

[frag2]

Yea this was brutal. The other one I remember last night was him have direct lane to the net from the wall but he decides to stop and pass it back to Nurse

McLeod has played the same way since he was a kid.

I was a bit concerned hearing Knoblauch talking about McLeod before anyone else, saying he had a great game. That's not really the player I'd be singling out after last night. It already has me questioning, although it's a fair mistake to make, the analysis in Mr. Knoblauch's arsenal.

Of course at first glance you watch McLeod fly up the ice with the puck and think damn, what a player. Any casual fan or someone new to the game would watch last night and pick him out as a standout simply due to his speed. He really is the fastest guy on the ice every shift he takes. Some of us have been watching long enough to know that his game is never going to change.

Someone likened him to Mason Raymond in the other thread, but even Mason Raymond had more jam to his game. More courage. McLeod is a nothing player, and despite being one of the fastest players on earth, is entirely anemic in terms of impact on a game. Until he starts playing like Holloway and Foegele he won't be worth having in a lineup. It's extra frustrating because his speed could make him a real good player if his soul wasn't as scared.

I can't remember Todd Marchant playing like this at any point in his career, and I doubt you can transform from being a wholly perimeter, soft guy to a warhorse on a whim. Same goes with RNH, we're never going to get anything different from those guys. Some men have it in them and some don't. Tons of players don't make the NHL for the same struggles as McLeod. If he wasn't the fastest player on the ice, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. It's the sole thing keeping him here -- a hope that he will eventually find the tenacity that will turn him into a player.

For our sake, let's hope. Would be great to add a real useful 3C to the group.

It's not that McLeod can't though. He just decided that's not his game anymore in the last 1.5 years. Just so weird. It's the same with post-Jack Johnson check to face Eberle. Just decided to stop attacking the net

 

[oldtimersask]

Excellent rundown. Have to say I was one of those that was fooled with the speed and puck carrying with McLeod. Impressed me how easily he could gain zones.

Yeah, with the Todd Marchant think I wasn't comparison, just wish McLeod could be that kind of player.

That said Tipp got more out of Mcleod than Woody ever did here so we will see. But at this point its hope isn't it.

If we are open to the idea of wishing players would transform their games, I'd start from the top.

McDavid with his speed and skill playing a more aggressive, in your face style would transform the club. Draisaitl in tow. Every single person would follow. If you saw McDavid first on pucks on the forecheck laying the bed every time the opportunity was there to do so, you would also see McLeod doing driving the puck wide and taking it to the hole. I really do believe that.

Like you said, he's imitating the players above him. That's completely normal in any environment where men are being led. I would argue every team in the league operates in a similar manner, with their role and depth players following the leaders. Of course over time the playstyles will rub off on one another, especially in practice when you're all joking around and watching McDavid dance through everybody, then you see Desharnais and McLeod and Ryan all trying to be fancy with the puck too. This is how life works.

The greatest teams in league history were able to emulate their leaders to great success because their leaders played a style that was feasible for anyone to follow along with. What do you think of me making a claim that Messier was the real leader of the Oilers dynasty? Well, he certainly was the vocal leader, and his courageous, hard-nosed played and demands from the rest of the group below him to follow were met. Gretzky did his own thing, but that club, Messier included, was bright enough to know they had to do something different, together, with Wayne on his island.

It seems this group hasn't realized that yet, or we do not have a Messier around to bridge the gap so to speak. This is me thinking abstractly and it could be far off the mark, but I really do think this club has to be seen as the same. McDavid should be on his own island because nobody on earth can play the sport like him. They can't get to him, but maybe McDavid can get to them. There is a wading valley here that needs to be gapped somehow so everyone is on the same page, as a team.

Could Draisaitl re-invent his game in a way that other players can look up to and emulate? Can he be a Messier? Again, like Marchant and McLeod, I think those types of players are born that way unfortunately. I love Draisaitl as a player, but if you could put a Bergeron, Messier, Marchand, Crosby type player in his place, do you? In Pitt for example, Crosby played the game in a way it was easy for the rest of the lineup to emulate. Of course he has a litany of special moments only a handful of players ever could have, but the strength of his game 95% of the time was hard, aggressive forechecking, dominating board battles with strength and smarts, dogged determination in all zones. A true, nearly psychotic determination to win. That rubbed off real well on guys like Kunitz, Rust, Dupuis, Guentzel, the list really goes on and on and on with that team. From the top down they had all of their guys playing the same way.

Sorry for the ramble, but I do think this is way more important than most people are willing to think or discuss. I could be off the mark. You put Messier in place of Draisaitl (again, I love Draisaitl) and this team beats Vegas last year. Or you convince McDavid and Draisaitl both to start believing it is their duty to retrieve every single puck, not their linemates, and you'll see a more determined effort.

I mean hell, you see how badly they try to get the puck back during scrambles on the powerplay. It's not like they're incapable. Why can't they have the same tenacity for every single dump in like other generational superstars have had like Crosby, Messier, Marchand, etc?

 

[GOilers88]

That's with all the hindsight in the world though.

At the time of his draft he did look like a superstar tier player. I remember in the OHL he bodychecked a guy clean through the glass which was insane.

The point was not to debate Yakupov, just to show an example of Katz making club based decisions, when those decisions overrode those of the people he hired to make decisions.

 

[Stoneman89]

Well.....to be honest, I would suspect a lot of practices after breaking a long pattern of losing would seem a bit fun.

 

[FlameChampion]

Well thats good. I think has been some rumours that Woodcroft didnt play with a ton of pace.

 

[oldtimersask]

Yea this was brutal. The other one I remember last night was him have direct lane to the net from the wall but he decides to stop and pass it back to Nurse



It's not that McLeod can't though. He just decided that's not his game anymore in the last 1.5 years. Just so weird. It's the same with post-Jack Johnson check to face Eberle. Just decided to stop attacking the net

I'm starting to like this bcurlock fellow. I'll have to learn how to record the game videos and cut it and edit it like on the TV like that to help illustrate points. What a great tool, and I agree with his insight a lot of the time. Wonder if he's a poster here.

I personally can't remember McLeod driving the puck to the net more than a handful of times in his whole career, although that may simply be my mind faltering. Hasn't ever been that player from my memory. Wish he was, although we would be paying him a lot more than we currently are. If what you're saying is true, I wonder where he gets off in thinking that's acceptable.

 

[Stoneman89]

McLeod has played the same way since he was a kid.

I was a bit concerned hearing Knoblauch talking about McLeod before anyone else, saying he had a great game. That's not really the player I'd be singling out after last night. It already has me questioning, although it's a fair mistake to make, the analysis in Mr. Knoblauch's arsenal.

Of course at first glance you watch McLeod fly up the ice with the puck and think damn, what a player. Any casual fan or someone new to the game would watch last night and pick him out as a standout simply due to his speed. He really is the fastest guy on the ice every shift he takes. Some of us have been watching long enough to know that his game is never going to change.

Someone likened him to Mason Raymond in the other thread, but even Mason Raymond had more jam to his game. More courage. McLeod is a nothing player, and despite being one of the fastest players on earth, is entirely anemic in terms of impact on a game. Until he starts playing like Holloway and Foegele he won't be worth having in a lineup. It's extra frustrating because his speed could make him a real good player if his soul wasn't as scared.

I can't remember Todd Marchant playing like this at any point in his career, and I doubt you can transform from being a wholly perimeter, soft guy to a warhorse on a whim. Same goes with RNH, we're never going to get anything different from those guys. Some men have it in them and some don't. Tons of players don't make the NHL for the same struggles as McLeod. If he wasn't the fastest player on the ice, he wouldn't even be in the NHL. It's the sole thing keeping him here -- a hope that he will eventually find the tenacity that will turn him into a player.

For our sake, let's hope. Would be great to add a real useful 3C to the group.

Great analysis on McLeod, and 100 % agree. His skating is beyond elite, but his tendency to flee or not even go into the dark areas have held him back ever since we first saw him, and now, being a veteran on a team that is supposedly a SC contender that needs everyone to muck in, he sticks out like a sore thumb in that area. Hopefully Knobber can get that out of him, but like you say, you're mostly born with it or not.

 

[joestevens29]

Great analysis on McLeod, and 100 % agree. His skating is beyond elite, but his tendency to flee or not even go into the dark areas have held him back ever since we first saw him, and now, being a veteran on a team that is supposedly a SC contender that needs everyone to muck in, he sticks out like a sore thumb in that area. Hopefully Knobber can get that out of him, but like you say, you're mostly born with it or not.

With his contract and lack of others to push him down it could be a disaster for him long-term. At least if there was someone to fight for ice-time with him maybe he'd realize he has to add something to his game.

The top picks we got in return for Mironov all realized this and have spoke about how their junior tricks just weren't going to work long-term so they really had to work on the other parts of the games that coaches and GM's love to see from players.

 

[TB12]

Interesting hearing Knobber talk about McLeod as that is kind of the player I would compare Kris to when he was at Alberta. Long, lanky guy. He had some offence to his game at the university level but didn't have the wheels that McLeod does. Kris' knock at U of A was he wouldn't always go to the dirty areas. Interesting comparison between the 2.