Post-Game Talk: Unpolished knob but still a win

[bone]

I’m not suggesting it was a wise penalty to take but it appears you can cross check a player in the vital organ area of the body trunk and target the spleen, kidneys etc and it nets 2 minutes but cross check the player‘s calves and it’s a 5k fine.

lol.

Only in Gary’s NHL.

Edmonton Oilers F Leon Draisaitl gets $5K fine for dangerous trip on Horvat | TSN

Edmonton Oilers forward Leon Draisaitl was fined $5,000 on Tuesday for a dangerous trip on New York Islanders centre Bo Horvat.

www.tsn.ca

I'm okay with it as it was a play I've never seen before and quickly drawing attention to it to say it shouldn't be done is the right approach. Drai won't lose sleep over $5K, and players who see that play get punished in some way aren't going to thinking to copy it.

If he attempts that same play and Boeser's twists his leg just before contact, that cross check could have landed on the side of the knee and potentially caused a lot of damage. As it connected in this case though it's not likely to result in anything more than confusion by the player as it's just a weird play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Islanders have to be the most boring team in the league. never enjoy watching them. A bunch of lunchbuckets.

Seems to be a major correction in Islanders scoring this season. Team is dead. Will miss playoffs.

I think on their best days they just outwork and maybe outmuscle some teams in the East. I think this same lineup would struggle anytime in the West.

In anycase is NHL is entertainment and the only benefit Islanders provided last night is getting the home fans a win. the over under seems to be around if the Islanders even score a goal in a game.

 

[TheNumber4]

I am too. I don't know what caused so much derision about his hire. People were pressing the nepotism, Old boys button all the time the past few days.

Difference being is Coffey is very astute, was the best D on the planet and he's a straight shooter that will confront and has the balls to do that. Goes without saying that if your Paul Coffey, legend D, some players are gonna pay attention. Nurse seemed very open to it in pressers. I saw more talk between the D and their coach than I ever saw with Manson here.

Not dissing Manson either but Coffey is going to have benefit of doubt with the players simply due to his resume. But when they get talking they also understand how this D totally understands the game.

Last thing I'm going to dispel is the notion being expressed on the board that Coffey is just another ancient fossil that understands zero about todays game. ffs he was still playing in 2001 and he went through everything from the prolific 80's to the deadpuck era etc.

People are reacting it seems to the Old boys theme rather than in Paul Coffey particularly.

We all have a bit of OBC trauma from failures past. The Oilers have failed to translate past success and the famed 5 rings experience into successful teams thus far.

But that doesn’t mean it can’t work, look at the Avs, Sakic is using all his experience from those Cup wins and built another winner. Yzerman and his loaded group of former red wings in his management are building towards something too. Both these guys are considered good GMs, good hockey execs and both were legit elite players in the game.

The Oilers OBCs were never elite players. Lowe was a great defensive defenceman, MacT was a good role player and mid 6 guy. Coffey is an OBC but cut from a different cloth. So while we did go and do that OBC thing again, we got ourselves a better OBC this time around and maybe it’ll work.

On Manson, I wasn’t a fan. The drop in our PK from Playfair to Manson was one of the first red flags. The constant egregious mistakes and bad pinches we saw for the D core never got better under Manson, they got worse and it lead to his firing.

 

[GOilers88]

I am too. I don't know what caused so much derision about his hire. People were pressing the nepotism, Old boys button all the time the past few days.

Difference being is Coffey is very astute, was the best D on the planet and he's a straight shooter that will confront and has the balls to do that. Goes without saying that if your Paul Coffey, legend D, some players are gonna pay attention. Nurse seemed very open to it in pressers. I saw more talk between the D and their coach than I ever saw with Manson here.

Not dissing Manson either but Coffey is going to have benefit of doubt with the players simply due to his resume. But when they get talking they also understand how this D totally understands the game.

Last thing I'm going to dispel is the notion being expressed on the board that Coffey is just another ancient fossil that understands zero about todays game. ffs he was still playing in 2001 and he went through everything from the prolific 80's to the deadpuck era etc.

People are reacting it seems to the Old boys theme rather than in Paul Coffey particularly.

For me it looks bad because he's special advisor to the owner. I feel like anyone, at any job, is going to look at a guy differently when they know he has the ear of the highest rung on the ladder.

 

[bone]

I am too. I don't know what caused so much derision about his hire. People were pressing the nepotism, Old boys button all the time the past few days.

Difference being is Coffey is very astute, was the best D on the planet and he's a straight shooter that will confront and has the balls to do that. Goes without saying that if your Paul Coffey, legend D, some players are gonna pay attention. Nurse seemed very open to it in pressers. I saw more talk between the D and their coach than I ever saw with Manson here.

Not dissing Manson either but Coffey is going to have benefit of doubt with the players simply due to his resume. But when they get talking they also understand how this D totally understands the game.

Last thing I'm going to dispel is the notion being expressed on the board that Coffey is just another ancient fossil that understands zero about todays game. ffs he was still playing in 2001 and he went through everything from the prolific 80's to the deadpuck era etc.

People are reacting it seems to the Old boys theme rather than in Paul Coffey particularly.

My biggest concern with his abilities here is that despite being retired for 2 decades now, he's never had a coaching position in any league of significance. If he was a naturally gifted coach, his past coaches would have seen this and pushed him down that path. That didn't happen.

For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but we all know being an elite player doesn't automatically create an elite coach.

The bigger concern to me is the weird dynamic of him being an advisor to Katz while also reporting to a head coach and GM is just strange and goes against common organizational logic.

This to me is the biggest risk of all as anyone who's had a direct report who was close with your boss or even worse, your boss' boss, isn't a healthy environment for delegation of duties. So it will all come down to how Coffey approaches this role, will he be the good soldier supporting his coach, or will he be the one to go over his head and try to pull trump whenever he disagrees. We will see.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Talking more on the bench works at the beginning of the coach-player. The new coaches will get some rope as each party feels each other out, but at a certain point a star player will blow them off or tell them it's distracting during the game. Then the challenge for the coaching staff begins on how to keep doing it effectively without damaging the relationship.

 

[K1984]

Islanders have to be the most boring team in the league. never enjoy watching them. A bunch of lunchbuckets.

Seems to be a major correction in Islanders scoring this season. Team is dead. Will miss playoffs.

I think on their best days they just outwork and maybe outmuscle some teams in the East. I think this same lineup would struggle anytime in the West.

In anycase is NHL is entertainment and the only benefit Islanders provided last night is getting the home fans a win. the over under seems to be around if the Islanders even score a goal in a game.

Their team is pretty heavily entrenched as well. Horvat/Lee/Barzal/Nelson/Palmieri/Pageau are all locked up for next year and beyond (Palmeri/Nelson the only ones that have their deals expire after next year). Then to take a step further Lamiorello took the baffling step of locking up Pierre Engvall to a forever deal at $3M per year while also having Cizekas on the books for three more at$2.5.

Sorokin is also locked up for a while, so you're probably going to see a solid 5-8 years of this type of hockey from them unless they land a sleeper somewhere in the 10-20 spot in the draft in that time.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Draisaitl to be held accountable for his stupid penalties. A leader on the team isn't leading if he takes stupid penalties, especially in the opposition end.

He also slew foot drai five sec earlier

 

[Drivesaitl]

For me it looks bad because he's special advisor to the owner. I feel like anyone, at any job, is going to look at a guy differently when they know he has the ear of the highest rung on the ladder.

I haven't spent as much time studying the allegations or know exactly what his role was but in anycase for years people have complained how little accountability the players and org have had to the owner. That he's a hands off owner and that this has meant that anything goes. So now lets say we introduce accountability how is that entirely a bad thing?

Unlike say Lowe or MacT Coffey in my impression is less likely to be manipulating this or to become ascorbic. Just because Lowe and MacT were sometimes or oftentimes douches to players it doesn't mean Coffey, with much different personality, will be. Coffey isn't somebody that needs to be saying something like 6 rings. He's a very confident guy, well spoken guy, good disposition.

 

[ujju2]

Compared to likely any of us, he does have "ripped" abs. They all do.

Yes… is that not what I said?

In any case, it was a dumb joke about torn and ripped being synonyms. Forget it lol

 

[TheNumber4]

For me it looks bad because he's special advisor to the owner. I feel like anyone, at any job, is going to look at a guy differently when they know he has the ear of the highest rung on the ladder.

Valid worry, that impression could definitely be had by players in this situation. But I’ll say this, Coffey by all accounts seems to be a very charismatic and influential person naturally. In his speech and demeanour and just ways of putting things. People in general love listening to this guy talk and boy does it seem he loves talking. So Face to face and depending on how Coffey acts, he could dispel any worries that he’s some sort of spy. He has the personality to pull it off and be a friend to the players, someone they can trust. It’ll all come down to what he does on the bench, that whole Katz connection can be a nothing burger if this is done right.

 

[KlefDown]

Holloway out for probably 2 months

Can't catch a break with injuries. sucks but at some point we have to make a decision with him

 

[Spawn]

We all have a bit of OBC trauma from failures past. The Oilers have failed to translate past success and the famed 5 rings experience into successful teams thus far.

But that doesn’t mean it can’t work, look at the Avs, Sakic is using all his experience from those Cup wins and built another winner. Yzerman and his loaded group of former red wings in his management are building towards something too. Both these guys are considered good GMs, good hockey execs and both were legit elite players in the game.

The Oilers OBCs were never elite players. Lowe was a great defensive defenceman, MacT was a good role player and mid 6 guy. Coffey is an OBC but cut from a different cloth. So while we did go and do that OBC thing again, we got ourselves a better OBC this time around and maybe it’ll work.

On Manson, I wasn’t a fan. The drop in our PK from Playfair to Manson was one of the first red flags. The constant egregious mistakes and bad pinches we saw for the D core never got better under Manson, they got worse and it lead to his firing.

Coffey is no different than the rest of them.

Keep in mind this guy was gifted a job a few years ago as some sort of Special Skills Development Coach and half this board pretended that it was actually Peter Chiarelli and Todd Mclellan's idea. He basically never even showed up for that job. When Holland and Tippet took over he lost that job. A few years later and he's back sticking his grubby hands into the org now that he's a "special advisor."

 

[GOilers88]

I haven't spent as much time studying the allegations or know exactly what his role was but in anycase for years people have complained how little accountability the players and org have had to the owner. That he's a hands off owner and that this has meant that anything goes. So now lets say we introduce accountability how is that entirely a bad thing?

Unlike say Lowe or MacT Coffey in my impression is less likely to be manipulating this or to become ascorbic. Just because Lowe and MacT were sometimes or oftentimes douches to players it doesn't mean Coffey, with much different personality, will be. Coffey isn't somebody that needs to be saying something like 6 rings. He's a very confident guy, well spoken guy, good disposition.

I'm of the opinion that a good franchise owner hires the right guys to run the team and let's them do it. Katz has a history of hiring the wrong people to do the job, seemingly because he also likes to bump elbows with them. It was pretty well reported that the Yakupov pick came from Katz too, back in the day, so I don't know that he's hands off entirely.

I'm willing to give Coffey the benefit of the doubt for a lot of the reasons you gave, but the optics of it all look really suspect to me and it's going to be tricky, and entirely up to Coffey, as to how to navigate it.

 

[Soundwave]

Yakupov coming out of junior was hyped to be like a mini-Ovechkin. If he had turned out to be a Kucherov type player, and the Oilers drafted Ryan Murray instead because "positional needs", that could've also turned into a gong show.

 

[TheNumber4]

Coffey is no different than the rest of them.

Keep in mind this guy was gifted a job a few years ago as some sort of Special Skills Development Coach and half this board pretended that it was actually Peter Chiarelli and Todd Mclellan's idea. He basically never even showed up for that job. When Holland and Tippet took over he lost that job. A few years later and he's back sticking his grubby hands into the org now that he's a "special advisor."

The details of how he got this job doesn’t define him as a person or player or coach. He’s obviously different from the OBCs just comparing careers, this is a guy who’s won in multiple places, who’s seen different forms of Cup winning teams, and played key parts in all of them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

My biggest concern with his abilities here is that despite being retired for 2 decades now, he's never had a coaching position in any league of significance. If he was a naturally gifted coach, his past coaches would have seen this and pushed him down that path. That didn't happen.

For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but we all know being an elite player doesn't automatically create an elite coach.

The bigger concern to me is the weird dynamic of him being an advisor to Katz while also reporting to a head coach and GM is just strange and goes against common organizational logic.

This to me is the biggest risk of all as anyone who's had a direct report who was close with your boss or even worse, your boss' boss, isn't a healthy environment for delegation of duties. So it will all come down to how Coffey approaches this role, will he be the good soldier supporting his coach, or will he be the one to go over his head and try to pull trump whenever he disagrees. We will see.

Gonna disagree here. Some people like Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey are successful at whatever they touch, and know they can be. The hangers on in orgs like the Oilers tend to be individuals that perhaps have more trouble getting away from the hockey life. As such I didn't always consider it great favor that Lowe and Mact hung on here as much as they did.

Coffey is way more accomplished, intelligent, and can do anything.I don't know the reasons he stayed away from hockey for so long, and he also stayed away from Edmonton for a long period. The Heritage Classic is the first time in years that he had visited here other than as a player on opponent teams. I recall Coffey even talking about moving on. That he's not the type to just look at the past. Also that Coffey had SC success multiple locations.

Coffey isn't a Yesman, and never was. he was the one player along with Messier to give it back to Sather or Pocklington. Indeed him even being retiscent about the role of coach suggests he won't misuse the opportunity. We will see.

For all we know he takes a bigger or lesser role or steps down. But when theres the option to have somebody like Coffey in the fold, even as symbolic role model to players and kind of advisor, you take it. i think Coffey reaches the superstars on the club.

 

[Soundwave]

As much shit as Lowe/Mac T take, the fact is they got the team to game 7 of a Cup Final.

IMO Tambellini was more of a problem with his do nothing approach but the real fact of the matter is a core of Hall-RNH-Yakupov-Eberle was never going to go anywhere.

Hall is not really a superstar no.1 player, RNH not even close, and Yakupov was a full on bust. Eberle is not a player you build a team around either.

 

[TheNumber4]

Holloway out for probably 2 months

Can't catch a break with injuries. sucks but at some point we have to make a decision with him

He plays a very risky game. Could see this injury coming from a mile away. I appreciate his motor and energy and his willingness to lay it all on the line, but if he wants a long career here he’ll have to do that in a less chaotic way and find some calmness and poise to this game.

 

[GOilers88]

Yakupov coming out of junior was hyped to be like a mini-Ovechkin. If he had turned out to be a Kucherov type player, and the Oilers drafted Ryan Murray instead because "positional needs", that could've also turned into a gong show.

But he wasn't Kucherov, and though hampered by injuries, Ryan Murray was the better player, nevermind the fact how much more sense he made positionally for the team at the time.

Regardless of this though, it was just to point out that Katz has shown in the past to be involved.

 

[Yuke]

4 point night. No he shouldn’t

Didn't need to be fore the whole game. Isn't the idea to have everyone accountable.
Can you imagine sitting in the dressing room and one of your leaders is giving the rah rah speech then goes out and does this stupid crosscheck in a tight game. Little later the 3rd or 4th liner goes out, gets an iffy call and then doesn't see the ice again. That splits the team up.
Every player needs to be accountable.

 

[TheNumber4]

Didn't need to be fore the whole game. Isn't the idea to have everyone accountable.
Can you imagine sitting in the dressing room and one of your leaders is giving the rah rah speech then goes out and does this stupid crosscheck in a tight game. Little later the 3rd or 4th liner goes out, gets an iffy call and then doesn't see the ice again. That splits the team up.
Every player needs to be accountable.

That’s the FANS idea is to punish and hold accountable. Players and coaches and management don’t have worries about accountability; they feel they have it in the room and hold eachother accountable. Drai made a boo boo out of frustration, the amount of crap he takes from other players that the league allows, I don’t blame him for it. And then he comes back and essentially carries the team to a win with his 4 point night. I’ll take the win over the slight possibility that making Drai feel guilt would have made him a better player somehow.

 

[Soundwave]

But he wasn't Kucherov, and though hampered by injuries, Ryan Murray was the better player, nevermind the fact how much more sense he made positionally for the team at the time.

Regardless of this though, it was just to point out that Katz has shown in the past to be involved.

That's with all the hindsight in the world though.

At the time of his draft he did look like a superstar tier player. I remember in the OHL he bodychecked a guy clean through the glass which was insane.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm of the opinion that a good franchise owner hires the right guys to run the team and let's them do it. Katz has a history of hiring the wrong people to do the job, seemingly because he also likes to bump elbows with them. It was pretty well reported that the Yakupov pick came from Katz too, back in the day, so I don't know that he's hands off entirely.

I'm willing to give Coffey the benefit of the doubt for a lot of the reasons you gave, but the optics of it all look really suspect to me and it's going to be tricky, and entirely up to Coffey, as to how to navigate it.

Yakupov the player was talented. Had a very good rookie season. he was deepsixed by Eakins. Yak could score, make plays, play with confidence. But one can never fully predict how a player will respond to adversity, different culture, etc. Yak is a really strange dude in the pro hockey world. Money for sure wasn't his god. he was and is religious, is much different background than average player and he was put off (imo) of some of the aspects of team, NA, pro hockey life. he didn't fit, and he wasn't the type that was gonna strive to fit.

NHL combine or scouting doesn't go into the kind of Psych profile detail or background or even know what to do about it. So that the player on the ice, not the person, is most evaluated. In pro hockey Yakupov was a square peg.

Not like the Oilers went offboard in the selection.

Back to Coffey in fairness he has nothing to do with the OBC and even avoided for decades being any part of it. He's his own man, not a hanger on, and he had little contact with the ex players up to the Heritage Classic in 2003.

Of all the Oilers there were two primary players, Wayne Gretzky, and Paul Coffey that would be superstars wherever they played. The rest grew into their roles and were right fits. Even Mess was a fairly normal player even in the WHA. He was young but he was one of the least prolific of the underaged players that played in that league. Messier forged himself to be a great player as the result of being along side superstars like Gretz and Coffey

 

[bone]

Yes… is that not what I said?

In any case, it was a dumb joke about torn and ripped being synonyms. Forget it lol

I was just jumping in on the joke. Sorry if I came across differently.

Yakupov coming out of junior was hyped to be like a mini-Ovechkin. If he had turned out to be a Kucherov type player, and the Oilers drafted Ryan Murray instead because "positional needs", that could've also turned into a gong show.

Ultimately, looking how the top 4 worked out that year, really there was nothing the team could do that would have been the right choice.

In fact, drafting Murray, likely means they don't draft Nurse and either trade that pick with throw ins for Schneider who turned into a pumpkin but only after keeping the team respectable enough to not get Leon or Connor, or they draft Nichuchskin whose first run through the NHL was pretty terrible and we'd have nothing to show for the first round either year by now.

All in all, Yakupov may have turned out to be the best pick after all based on who was ranked near the top that year.