GDT: UFC on ABC: Holloway vs. Kattar

[pistolpete11]

Have to wonder how much 50k bonuses factor into these fighters going on, especially for guys who aren't the high-level earners.. if Kattar calls it after Round 3 he's likely not getting a 50k bonus. Doubt he gets one after Round 4, either. Coincidentally, 50k is pretty close to what his win bonus is so I guess he did end up "winning" financially at least.

The more I think about it, the more I just really put my trust in the referee if you have a guy who has a long history of being a good ref. That's the most important guy in there in these kind of fights.

Maybe it's part of the calculus. I don't know. That type of beating can shorten or alter your career though. It's like the saying "live to fight another day". To be fair, they probably didn't think it was going to get as bad as it did in R4, but they still put out there in R5 so...

See, I don't like giving the ref that much responsibility. The ref has enough to worry about. In this instance, I wouldn't have had a problem with it because of the guys involved, but it's easy to envision a scenario where the ref makes a mistake. They make enough errors as is. We don't need to give them something else to think about. As I mentioned above, I think there should be a clear division of responsibility:

The ref should stop a fight if a fighter isn't intelligently defending themselves or taps.
The doctor should stop a fight it it isn't safe for a fighter to continue to fight.
The corner should stop a fight if there is no realistic possibility of their fighter winning the fight.

 

[pistolpete11]

Regarding Volk-Max 2, it is not crazy to score it for Volk, but using significant strike totals as your argument is kind of weak. Not all significant strikes are created equal. Volk was throwing a lot of leg kicks that were just touching Max and not having much effect. They count for something, but they should not be scored evenly.

 

[m9]

You can pretty much throw out any stats in Rounds 1,2,4 and 5 as it's pretty obvious who won those rounds. So you're left with Round 3, which is as close as it gets and there's really no wrong answer. Holloway definitely won Rounds 1/2 more clearly than Volkanovski won his rounds but neither were 10-8 rounds so it really doesn't matter.

 

[pistolpete11]

Re: Condit

If he stays in the UFC, how about Cowboy?

 

[m9]

Re: Condit

If he stays in the UFC, how about Cowboy?

Works for me. I like Lawler/Condit 2 as well.

 

[pistolpete11]

Works for me. I like Lawler/Condit 2 as well.

Yeah, that's an appropriate fight as well. It would be hard to not compare it to their first fight though, impossible to live up to it, and thus might feel like a let down.

 

[crazychimp]

Here's a different angle of that no look from Max. Beautiful to watch.

 

[YNWA14]

You can pretty much throw out any stats in Rounds 1,2,4 and 5 as it's pretty obvious who won those rounds. So you're left with Round 3, which is as close as it gets and there's really no wrong answer. Holloway definitely won Rounds 1/2 more clearly than Volkanovski won his rounds but neither were 10-8 rounds so it really doesn't matter.

I'd like to see a rule that rewards a knockdown with extra value. Max dropped Volk twice, and Volk never looked like he had Max in trouble at any point. If the rest of the fight is relatively even that alone should count for something. I don't know many people who thought Volk actually won the fight and he always peddles out the stats because he landed a bunch of leg kicks that didn't actually hurt Max. It would be different if he were hobbled or hurt ala McGregor tonight but he wasn't. Credit to Volk for coming back from the knockdowns and making the fight competitive, but giving that fight to him was mind boggling for me. Reminds me a little of when Edgar was screwed out his rematch win over Benson Henderson.

 

[m9]

I'd like to see a rule that rewards a knockdown with extra value. Max dropped Volk twice, and Volk never looked like he had Max in trouble at any point. If the rest of the fight is relatively even that alone should count for something. I don't know many people who thought Volk actually won the fight and he always peddles out the stats because he landed a bunch of leg kicks that didn't actually hurt Max. It would be different if he were hobbled or hurt ala McGregor tonight but he wasn't. Credit to Volk for coming back from the knockdowns and making the fight competitive, but giving that fight to him was mind boggling for me. Reminds me a little of when Edgar was screwed out his rematch win over Benson Henderson.

This was the fight that caused some interesting discussions about scoring in media & on this board. It's really too bad that a fight can be scored correctly yet the "winner" didn't really deserve it. I believe that was the case here - the judges did their job but the scoring system let them down.

I stand by my idea in the thread - the judge has 10pts to split between the two fighters in each round. Even round is 5-5, clear winner 6-4, then 7-3 or more for bigger rounds.

My main issue with the current scoring is different than yours. I'm less worried about rewarded knockdowns as I know at least those guys will still win the round. What I can't stand is guys winning on pure coin-flip rounds. Those rounds (like the 3rd round in this fight) need to be 10-10 and not just what often is nothing more than an arbitrary choice. Too many 3 round fights where one guy wins one round clearly and then loses because he loses two coin flop rounds. It's a poor structure. Changing the system would mean more draws which isn't always fun but at least it's fair.