GDT: UFC 285: Jones vs. Gane

[td_ice]

I really don't remember any big damaging shots in that 4th round that gives VS the round over Grasso. So I think it's 2-2 going into round 5. Yes,off of that mistake.


As for "one mistake" leading to the whole sequence. Well that happens all the time in fights. So yeah, one mistake led to the winning round or victory. But the fight wasn't lopsided. Grasso still has a chance to win, imo, if round 5 happens.


But who knows how round 1 was scored, I had Grasso. So if it's 2-2, Grasso has a decent shot at winning round 5. She seemed fresher. But VS is a champion, and could have taken 5th round.

Just me giving credit to Grasso. Not that I have seen many people saying it was flukey.

 

[m9]

I really don't remember any big damaging shots in that 4th round that gives VS the round over Grasso. So I think it's 2-2 going into round 5. Yes,off of that mistake.


As for "one mistake" leading to the whole sequence. Well that happens all the time in fights. So yeah, one mistake led to the winning round or victory. But the fight wasn't lopsided. Grasso still has a chance to win, imo, if round 5 happens.


But who knows how round 1 was scored, I had Grasso. So if it's 2-2, Grasso has a decent shot at winning round 5. She seemed fresher. But VS is a champion, and could have taken 5th round.

Just me giving credit to Grasso. Not that I have seen many people saying it was flukey.

I don't really understand the premise that you're going off here, it doesn't make sense to me. But I agree Grasso deserves credit for the win so I'll leave it at that.

 

[SuperScript29]

Shavkat looks incredible but I think he may be vulnerable to a good striker.

That's my take on Shavkat as well, he is a great fighter, but he ate a lot of strikes this fight. A good striker will probably give him a hard time. I'm interested to see how he'll do against someone like Wonderboy, but I'd much rather he fights someone younger and higher ranked at this point. I would say Khamzat but I don't think he's sticking around at 170, so maybe someone like Burns or Belal.

 

[I am not exposed]

That's my take on Shavkat as well, he is a great fighter, but he ate a lot of strikes this fight. A good striker will probably give him a hard time. I'm interested to see how he'll do against someone like Wonderboy, but I'd much rather he fights someone younger and higher ranked at this point. I would say Khamzat but I don't think he's sticking around at 170, so maybe someone like Burns or Belal.

He will take Wonderboy down and have his way with him on the ground. They were already trying to organise that fight and Wonderboy said no because he's done dealing with grapplers/fighters with good ground game so he fought Holland instead. And that's why Shavkat was matched with Neal.

I think he's a better striker than Belal as well.

Burns would be a tough match up. He is for anyone in the division.

Khamzat missed weight by a lot in his last fight. I also can't see him sticking around.

 

[I am not exposed]

I did like how Shavkat called out Colby. Colby has the cardio, but I don't think his pitter patter punches would bother Shavkat too much. Neal hits a lot harder, and he dealt with those punches for the most part. Beginning of the 3rd round was the exception where he did get rocked. Still, I would favour Shavkat over Colby as well.

 

[I am not exposed]

Colby is probably praying for Leon to retain the title against Usman. And if Leon wins in London, then we will be hearing a lot more from Colby imo.

Was Colby vocal after Leon beat Usman last year? I can't recall seeing anything. Mostly it was Masdival.

 

[m9]

Colby is probably praying for Leon to retain the title against Usman. And if Leon wins in London, then we will be hearing a lot more from Colby imo.

Was Colby vocal after Leon beat Usman last year? I can't recall seeing anything. Mostly it was Masdival.

Colby hasn't really been vocal about anything since Masvidal jumped him.

 

[td_ice]

Speaking of Masvidal, him vs. Burns coming up.

I don't see that ending up well for Jorge. But can't wait to see it.

 

[16Skippy]

I did like how Shavkat called out Colby. Colby has the cardio, but I don't think his pitter patter punches would bother Shavkat too much. Neal hits a lot harder, and he dealt with those punches for the most part. Beginning of the 3rd round was the exception where he did get rocked. Still, I would favour Shavkat over Colby as well.

It was too loud in the bar to hear the post fight interviews but I like that match up.

 

[Taytro]

I did like how Shavkat called out Colby. Colby has the cardio, but I don't think his pitter patter punches would bother Shavkat too much. Neal hits a lot harder, and he dealt with those punches for the most part. Beginning of the 3rd round was the exception where he did get rocked. Still, I would favour Shavkat over Colby as well.

It was too loud in the bar to hear the post fight interviews but I like that match up.

There is literally 0 reason for Colby to take that fight. He's fighting down in the rankings, he won't be headlining, and if Leon wins, he would be the obvious next man up to challenge for the belt. He's not a company man, he doesn't take that fight just for the benefit of the UFC. He's better off just waiting to see what happens, and if Usman wins, he can target Leon for a contenders fight or maybe Belal/Gilbert

 

[m9]

There is literally 0 reason for Colby to take that fight. He's fighting down in the rankings, he won't be headlining, and if Leon wins, he would be the obvious next man up to challenge for the belt. He's not a company man, he doesn't take that fight just for the benefit of the UFC. He's better off just waiting to see what happens, and if Usman wins, he can target Leon for a contenders fight or maybe Belal/Gilbert

I mean, if Leon wins AND Masvidal wins that's the next fight,. Colby isn't guaranteed a thing.

Colby is exactly why they need to fix the rankings. I've said before a good snapshot is only the last 3 years count towards rankings so you're not squatting. Colby is 2-1 over that time with wins over Masvidal/Woodley so he would probably be ranked much lower and in that situation he would have a benefit to fighting someone who has been more active as he can earn a title shot that way. Their current system is awful.

 

[I am not exposed]

I mean, if Leon wins AND Masvidal wins that's the next fight,. Colby isn't guaranteed a thing.

Colby is exactly why they need to fix the rankings. I've said before a good snapshot is only the last 3 years count towards rankings so you're not squatting. Colby is 2-1 over that time with wins over Masvidal/Woodley so he would probably be ranked much lower and in that situation he would have a benefit to fighting someone who has been more active as he can earn a title shot that way. Their current system is awful.

Also Masvidal is his only win in the top 15 of UFC rankings for current welterweights.

 

[Taytro]

I mean, if Leon wins AND Masvidal wins that's the next fight,. Colby isn't guaranteed a thing.

Colby is exactly why they need to fix the rankings. I've said before a good snapshot is only the last 3 years count towards rankings so you're not squatting. Colby is 2-1 over that time with wins over Masvidal/Woodley so he would probably be ranked much lower and in that situation he would have a benefit to fighting someone who has been more active as he can earn a title shot that way. Their current system is awful.

UFC is a business and their rankings are designed to support the business. It's why you see high draw/popularity fighters stay on rankings if they've been inactive or practically non existent for several years. Colby should get the title fight because it's fun. This is entertainment before it's sport. From a sport aspect the rankings are awful.

My point was that there's no benefit to Colby to take a high risk fight, low reward fight like Shavkat. It's all downside. His name isn't big enough to boost Colby up yet if Colby wins, the name isn't big enough to draw to Colby. There won't be any drama or talking between them that would increase the eyes on the fight. There's nothing going on here for Colby. Someone like Burns, Belal, or even Wonderboy are better for Colby in every aspect, so why would he take Shavkat?

 

[m9]

UFC is a business and their rankings are designed to support the business. It's why you see high draw/popularity fighters stay on rankings if they've been inactive or practically non existent for several years. Colby should get the title fight because it's fun. This is entertainment before it's sport. From a sport aspect the rankings are awful.

My point was that there's no benefit to Colby to take a high risk fight, low reward fight like Shavkat. It's all downside. His name isn't big enough to boost Colby up yet if Colby wins, the name isn't big enough to draw to Colby. There won't be any drama or talking between them that would increase the eyes on the fight. There's nothing going on here for Colby. Someone like Burns, Belal, or even Wonderboy are better for Colby in every aspect, so why would he take Shavkat?

But how do these rankings help business? Colby fighting is good for business. He barely fights because he has no incentive to fight since he's planted at the top of the rankings.

 

[16Skippy]

There is literally 0 reason for Colby to take that fight. He's fighting down in the rankings, he won't be headlining, and if Leon wins, he would be the obvious next man up to challenge for the belt. He's not a company man, he doesn't take that fight just for the benefit of the UFC. He's better off just waiting to see what happens, and if Usman wins, he can target Leon for a contenders fight or maybe Belal/Gilbert

Yea he is probably better off waiting, but as fan of the sport I'd rather have most contenders be active instead of cling on to their rankings without doing anything. And I don't think he should be considered the obvious next man though. He's 3-2 in the last 4 years and Masvidal is the only win that hasn't aged poorly yet. If Burns smokes him next month then Burns should probably be ranked higher than Colby.

And I don't think he even deserved his 2nd shot vs Usman that quickly but he did end up fighting well so I guess that worked out.

 

[Taytro]

But how do these rankings help business? Colby fighting is good for business. He barely fights because he has no incentive to fight since he's planted at the top of the rankings.

Marketing mostly. You want the guys who you pay the most money to to be at the top of cards. You don't want to pay someone 250k to be a mid carder, and then have to pay other people to main/co main. So it's a lot easier to market them being on top of cards by keeping a higher number next to their name. The 3rd ranked welterweight sounds a lot better to the casual fan than the 12th ranked welterweight who is 2-2 in the last X amount of years. Even if the higher ranked guys don't fight as frequently, you'll have to pay the new guy who takes their ranking similarly, and they'll have the leverage since they now have the ranking, and they might also decrease the frequency of fights as we typically see the paychecks go up, the number of fights per year go down.

You also want to keep some consistency in the rankings to appeal to the average fan, so your previous marketing isn't thrown away. If it's a constant rotating cycle of names, the casual fan won't get attached to those names as much or even recognize who they are. It's a lot easier to market Colby Covington as a main or co main than Shavkat becuase you've already invested in Colby. It cost money to market these guys, so throwing away your old marketing to market new guys all the time is expensive.

People in the community will know who the guys are but the average fan will never familiarize themselves or attach themselves to fighters when the top of the rankings constantly changes. So keeping that consistency keeps cost down and likely increases viewership much more than having inactive fighters go up and down the ranking and 'new' or more unknown guys constantly replacing them.

Thats just my take at least. But I agree the rankings are bad for the sport, just makes more sense for the business.

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought Colby-Belal was the fight to make.

Not saying Belal would be an easy fight for Colby, but he's the least dangerous compared to Chimaev, Burns, Shavkat. Even if he lost, it would likely be competitive and he could save face.

And for Belal, the biggest thing holding him back from a title shot is a win against a top 5 ranked guy or someone with name value. Colby would check both those boxes, so it would be tough to deny him a title shot next with a win. I'm sure Belal would take that fight if it was offered.



I just hope it doesn't work for Colby. As @m9 said, 2 wins in 3 years against late stage Woodley and Masvidal is not good enough to a title shot.

 

[m9]

Marketing mostly. You want the guys who you pay the most money to to be at the top of cards. You don't want to pay someone 250k to be a mid carder, and then have to pay other people to main/co main. So it's a lot easier to market them being on top of cards by keeping a higher number next to their name. The 3rd ranked welterweight sounds a lot better to the casual fan than the 12th ranked welterweight who is 2-2 in the last X amount of years. Even if the higher ranked guys don't fight as frequently, you'll have to pay the new guy who takes their ranking similarly, and they'll have the leverage since they now have the ranking, and they might also decrease the frequency of fights as we typically see the paychecks go up, the number of fights per year go down.

They can (and will, and do) still put guys at the top of cards regardless of their ranking. For the true stars it won't change a thing. Masvidal is in the co-main event next weekend against the #5 guy with potentially a title shot on the line. Derrick Lewis was already down the rankings going into his last fight and now is #11 but he'll still be in an appropriate spot on the card. Plus I think it's more important to have the guys who are actually fighting often get those rankings because you can market cards better.

You also want to keep some consistency in the rankings to appeal to the average fan, so your previous marketing isn't thrown away. If it's a constant rotating cycle of names, the casual fan won't get attached to those names as much or even recognize who they are. It's a lot easier to market Colby Covington as a main or co main than Shavkat becuase you've already invested in Colby. It cost money to market these guys, so throwing away your old marketing to market new guys all the time is expensive.

I really don't think this matters because as mentioned those big names will still get premium card placement.

People in the community will know who the guys are but the average fan will never familiarize themselves or attach themselves to fighters when the top of the rankings constantly changes. So keeping that consistency keeps cost down and likely increases viewership much more than having inactive fighters go up and down the ranking and 'new' or more unknown guys constantly replacing them.

Thats just my take at least. But I agree the rankings are bad for the sport, just makes more sense for the business.

The UFC has basically built a model where they want the brand to be more important than the fighters so I don't think they'll care about this.

Paulo Costa has one win in over 3 years and it was over a basically retired Luke Rockhold in a fight that was much tougher than it should have been. There is no way this guy should be ranked #5 (even if it was just a few spots lower) given that recent resume. If he's ranked a bit lower you are rewarding the guys actually fighting & winning, plus it gives you more options for the next Costa fight. Veteran fighters hate fighting back in the rankings because there's no upside. Plus even if he's ranked like #9, he'll still get big fights if he wants because of the name.

I'll also add that we aren't talking about a ton of guys, we are just specifically talking about certain guys who aren't fighting. Maybe 5-10 guys like Costa, Miocic, Colby, etc.

 

[pistolpete11]

UFC doesn't control the rankings anyway, right? I'm sure they influence it just by how they talk about guys, but they don't have control over it.

 

[m9]

UFC doesn't control the rankings anyway, right? I'm sure they influence it just by how they talk about guys, but they don't have control over it.

They have a weird, hand-picked group of obscure voters and I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't have some influence over it.