UFC 244: Diaz vs Masvidal

[CDJ]

Lyman Good throws BOMBS


Also Burgos is apparently now a free agent. Those body shots at the end were savage

 

[member 51464]

I still think the most weird part of the night was one judge each going 30-27 in the Kelvin and Till fight.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Obviously easy to say now, but I really didn't see how Diaz was gonna win that fight. Masvidal is much quicker, has much more power, Maia couldn't submit him, and we all knew he could chop Diaz's legs out essentially as much as he wanted to.

The "I took the first 2-3 rounds off" routine is getting stale. I don't think most would mind a rematch, but there's no need for it. Masvidal would bust him up for another 25 minutes. Honestly might even finish him.

How ironic that the BMF title is decided by a cut, and one that we've seen much worse than no less. Fight like that, at MSG, all the hype, the commission needs to have a doc that's very experienced with MMA. That was not a fight stopping cut.

Was never a fan of the "BMF" belt, felt very gimmicky, and the cut stoppage made it even worse. All that said, it worked. This felt like a huge event. Trump, The Rock, very heavy ESPN coverage. And fortunately for the UFC the rest of the card delivered.

 

[CDJ]

I still think the most weird part of the night was one judge each going 30-27 in the Kelvin and Till fight.

I had 29-28 Till, 30-27 Till is a reach imo, 30-27 Gastelum is deserving of prison time

 

[Balls Mahoney]

I'm not the biggest MMA fan, I was super casual until Khabib/Poirer drew me in and Masvidal made me really interested in it. I've been reading, watching and playing WMMA5 a lot trying to understand it. But from my perspective Kelvin is about the most overrated I've seen. All the energy UFC put into promoting him and hyping him as a star. I watched all the UFC vlog stuff trying to understand as much as possible. Thought he was going to be some fire wrestler who is heeming everyone like Khabib. Also thought it was strange Till is so underrated considering his record, his build and he's a monster in WMMA5.

This is coming from a new fan's perspective. I understand he had some heroic fights in the past.

 

[h2]

It may be uncomfortable to you but we are talking about fighting. If it was competitive like the mcgregor fight that would’ve been one thing. It just wasn’t. There’s no need to keep trotting him out there because he’s got a punchers chance when his eyebrow is barely attached to his skull

I'm comfortable with the topic. I'm not down with shifting to the death narrative only to allow you to point the finger that I'm 'naive, or promoting death, etc' with a position that I would have liked to see rounds 4-5 as I think Diaz was getting to an advantage, to what degree is unclear.

To repeat, I think the result was very likely to be the same, but as a fight enthusiast, I would have liked to see the end result with that extra bit of intrigue that I perceived to be present going into round 4. I think the stoppage was appropriate, but the disappointment was there based on how I felt the fight was developing with that intrigue I mention. I also think the fight could have been stopped with that cut at the end of round 1, stopping at the end of round 3 just added to the surprise as I thought they deemed it fine by allowing the last two rounds to proceed. Unless the cut got worse, which off my initial viewing I'm not sure it did. Regardless, massive props to Masvidal on how the fight did go and his recent resurgence. He's made the WW division interesting.

 

[CDJ]

I'm comfortable with the topic. I'm not down with shifting to the death narrative only to allow you to point the finger that I'm 'naive, or promoting death, etc' with a position that I would have liked to see rounds 4-5 as I think Diaz was getting to an advantage, to what degree is unclear.

To repeat, I think the result was very likely to be the same, but as a fight enthusiast, I would have liked to see the end result with that extra bit of intrigue that I perceived to be present going into round 4. I think the stoppage was appropriate, but the disappointment was there based on how I felt the fight was developing with that intrigue I mention. I also think the fight could have been stopped with that cut at the end of round 1, stopping at the end of round 3 just added to the surprise as I thought they deemed it fine by allowing the last two rounds to proceed. Unless the cut got worse, which off my initial viewing I'm not sure it did. Regardless, massive props to Masvidal on how the fight did go and his recent resurgence. He's made the WW division interesting.

So you can tell people they don’t understand martial arts but they aren’t allowed to say the same about you, got it. I never said you promoted death- it’s just the exact same logic used when coaches trot their compromised fighters out there, and it does in fact lead to fighters leaving a piece of themselves in the cage. I understand it, I just look at it differently than you.


If you think Diaz was getting an advantage we were watching entirely different fights. He’s not rocky. He’s a human and i would prefer him to keep his brain and eye intact

 

[h2]

So you can tell people they don’t understand martial arts but they aren’t allowed to say the same about you, got it


If you think Diaz was getting an advantage we were watching entirely different fights. He was getting smoked, didn’t win a second of the fight

I'm totally fine if you don't think I understand martial arts, feel free to make that claim.

I agree with the second bold, but those two bolds aren't mutually exclusive. Yes, I think Diaz was approaching a point where he might have a moment or two in the later rounds and to what degree those moments could have been are unclear. I also think the trajectory was heading the same way which was a massive Masvidal win.

 

[m9]

I'm not the biggest MMA fan, I was super casual until Khabib/Poirer drew me in and Masvidal made me really interested in it. I've been reading, watching and playing WMMA5 a lot trying to understand it. But from my perspective Kelvin is about the most overrated I've seen. All the energy UFC put into promoting him and hyping him as a star. I watched all the UFC vlog stuff trying to understand as much as possible. Thought he was going to be some fire wrestler who is heeming everyone like Khabib. Also thought it was strange Till is so underrated considering his record, his build and he's a monster in WMMA5.

This is coming from a new fan's perspective. I understand he had some heroic fights in the past.

That fight was definitely the most surprising. In terms of Till, he had been KO'd in his last two fights, was moving up a weight class, and had Visa issues that caused him to not make it to New York until Friday. I also don't think he did anything special in this fight. The story should be how awful Gastelum looked.

 

[member 51464]

I'm not the biggest MMA fan, I was super casual until Khabib/Poirer drew me in and Masvidal made me really interested in it. I've been reading, watching and playing WMMA5 a lot trying to understand it. But from my perspective Kelvin is about the most overrated I've seen. All the energy UFC put into promoting him and hyping him as a star. I watched all the UFC vlog stuff trying to understand as much as possible. Thought he was going to be some fire wrestler who is heeming everyone like Khabib. Also thought it was strange Till is so underrated considering his record, his build and he's a monster in WMMA5.

This is coming from a new fan's perspective. I understand he had some heroic fights in the past.

Till isn't underrated. I think most people acknowledge he has some striking skills and the frame to be a problem for many even at his new weight class.

He won this one, but I think a big part of that was Kelvin not taking it seriously and doing nothing. Now sure, you have to give some credit to Till for that, I suppose, but I think just about everyone watching was surprised how listless Kelvin looked. That can't all have just been Till defense or whatever.

Till had a pretty meteoric rise in the UFC, but was outclassed by Woodley when he fought for the title and then got posterized by Masvidal just prior to last night.

I think a fair take on Till is, it remains to be seen how elite he can be. The tools seem to be there, but he does still have some bad habits and I think can be susceptible to elite strikers. We saw that with Masvidal, and it remains to be seen if Till were to make it to a fight with Israel.

I do like that he seems to only want to take tough fights.

In summary, Till shouldn't be rated any higher than he is unless he has more success, in a more impressive manner, going forward in his new weight class.

 

[Neutrinos]

We've always been told that body shots sap a fighter's energy the longer the fight goes

With Diaz having been hammered with kicks to his torso, it's not unreasonable to assume that his cardio may not have held up during the championship rounds

 

[pistolpete11]

I'm not the biggest MMA fan, I was super casual until Khabib/Poirer drew me in and Masvidal made me really interested in it. I've been reading, watching and playing WMMA5 a lot trying to understand it. But from my perspective Kelvin is about the most overrated I've seen. All the energy UFC put into promoting him and hyping him as a star. I watched all the UFC vlog stuff trying to understand as much as possible. Thought he was going to be some fire wrestler who is heeming everyone like Khabib. Also thought it was strange Till is so underrated considering his record, his build and he's a monster in WMMA5.

This is coming from a new fan's perspective. I understand he had some heroic fights in the past.

Gastelum is kind of frustrating. He's got a wrestling background, but he also has some fast hands, sharp boxing, and has a granite chin, but I kind of question his dedication. He missed weight multiple times at 170 and even had to cheat to make weight for this fight at 185. You look at his body and he could very easily lose some body fat. He shouldn't have a problem making 185.

Still, I think it gets overlooked, but he's still relatively young at 28 and he's already fought a lot of the top guys at 170 and 185. 3 of his 5 losses have been split decisions (although to be fair, he also has a bunch of split decision victories, too). I don't think he's a superstar or anything, but he's a tough fight for anyone on any given day.

With Till, I'm still skeptical. His best wins are Wonderboy and Gastelum, but they were both really boring where not much happened. Both were more like "I guess Till won...". He beat Cowboy, too, but Cowboy is a natural LW and Till is a natural MW. Then he got absolutely embarrassed by Woodley in one of the most lopsided title fights I've ever seen. The Masvidal fight is kind of some good and some bad. Obviously, it ended with him getting brutally KOed, but he also dropped Masvidal earlier in that fight.

 

[member 51464]

Yeah, I'll be curious to see the next fight for Till. If Romero and Israel are fighting and Costa is out for long, that still leaves some tough, tough competition. Whittaker? Cannonier? Souza? Jack Hermanson?

Not a lot of easy fights in Middleweight.

 

[CDJ]

Yeah, I'll be curious to see the next fight for Till. If Romero and Israel are fighting and Costa is out for long, that still leaves some tough, tough competition. Whittaker? Cannonier? Souza? Jack Hermanson?

Not a lot of easy fights in Middleweight.

Jacare moved up to 205, fighting Blachowicz in a couple weeks

I’d like to see him and Whittaker

 

[CDJ]

Gastelum is kind of frustrating. He's got a wrestling background, but he also has some fast hands, sharp boxing, and has a granite chin, but I kind of question his dedication. He missed weight multiple times at 170 and even had to cheat to make weight for this fight at 185. You look at his body and he could very easily lose some body fat. He shouldn't have a problem making 185.

Still, I think it gets overlooked, but he's still relatively young at 28 and he's already fought a lot of the top guys at 170 and 185. 3 of his 5 losses have been split decisions (although to be fair, he also has a bunch of split decision victories, too). I don't think he's a superstar or anything, but he's a tough fight for anyone on any given day.

With Till, I'm still skeptical. His best wins are Wonderboy and Gastelum, but they were both really boring where not much happened. Both were more like "I guess Till won...". He beat Cowboy, too, but Cowboy is a natural LW and Till is a natural MW. Then he got absolutely embarrassed by Woodley in one of the most lopsided title fights I've ever seen. The Masvidal fight is kind of some good and some bad. Obviously, it ended with him getting brutally KOed, but he also dropped Masvidal earlier in that fight.

People forget this.....a less durable fighter not named street Jesus would’ve been out of there inside a minute. He was fighting a great fight until he woke up staring at the lights


That’s the danger of finishing your strikes with your chin up. Really bad habit. He almost got clipped by Gastelum

Chewed up Kelvins legs early on and I think that pretty much won him the fight



Edit: Masvidal trying to get mcgregor to bite lol


Also regarding Till-Kelvin...I think some credit needs to be given to till for making Gastelum look that bad. That was easily the least dangerous I’ve seen him look. Rewatching it Till did a beautiful job. If he can learn to keep his chin down he’s gonna stifle people. Very hard to get offense in on him with that Muay Thai/leg kick game on the outside and clench game on the inside

 

[darko]

We all want to see the massive KO but I'm okay with Nate keeping his eye and not receiving more brain damage

Not that we could tell the difference with Diaz.

 

[SuperScript29]

I was annoyed with the stoppage when it happened, but when I saw Nate's eye after the fight, the Doc definitely made the right call, and I'm glad he had the balls to pull it off.

Also this was not a close bout either. Nate did get a few shots in there but it was an easy 3-0 for Jorge at that point. I get that Nate has cardio for days, but Jorge was't exactly gassed and Nate needed a finish to win it, which is not exactly easy to pull off on a guy who was last stopped 10 years ago.

 

[Suxnet]

That Lee KO was so brutally clean. So much so that I felt bit of horror after being in amazement. It was like it wasn't as horrific as watching someone die, but it was at the limit of how awesome a KO can be. Weird emotion.

 

[pistolpete11]

I was annoyed with the stoppage when it happened, but when I saw Nate's eye after the fight, the Doc definitely made the right call, and I'm glad he had the balls to pull it off.

Also this was not a close bout either. Nate did get a few shots in there but it was an easy 3-0 for Jorge at that point. I get that Nate has cardio for days, but Jorge was't exactly gassed and Nate needed a finish to win it, which is not exactly easy to pull off on a guy who was last stopped 10 years ago.

It was a nasty cut, but his vision wasn't in danger and it wasn't bleeding into his eye. Even after letting it sit for a few days, I don't understand why it was stopped. Regardless of whether it was likely Nate was going to win that fight, I don't think it should have been up to the doctor in that situation.

And for those who were saying Dana agreed with the stoppage, he also said that if it was in LV, the fight would have continued.

 

[CDJ]

That Lee KO was so brutally clean. So much so that I felt bit of horror after being in amazement. It was like it wasn't as horrific as watching someone die, but it was at the limit of how awesome a KO can be. Weird emotion.

When shin meets chin lights go OUT and the shadow realm claims another member. To do it against Gillespie as a pretty heavy dog was incredible too

I know he says it was an ingrown hair but it sure looked like he had staph. Certainly didn’t fight like he was on antibiotics though so it probably is just a hair. That move to tristar is huge for him. I can see him getting another title shot at 155 at some point. Would be fun to see him vs Islam. Taking out Khabibs boy would definitely get him that fight quicker

 

[CDJ]

It was a nasty cut, but his vision wasn't in danger and it wasn't bleeding into his eye. Even after letting it sit for a few days, I don't understand why it was stopped. Regardless of whether it was likely Nate was going to win that fight, I don't think it should have been up to the doctor in that situation.

And for those who were saying Dana agreed with the stoppage, he also said that if it was in LV, the fight would have continued.

Luke Thomas was talking about it- it would be great if the doctors had some transparency. Like it would be great to know what he saw so we wouldn’t have to play this guessing/debate game. I wonder if that would violate HIPPA though. Idk I’m not a doctor


At the end of the day the fight wasn’t in Vegas so it doesn’t really matter what Vegas would do. I’ve still got no issue with it being called...it wasn’t competitive. His eye looked really nasty. Is it ideal? Of course not. But it is what it is. I don’t really feel like I missed out on anything.


That may have been the GOAT prelim card btw. Such savagery

 

[m9]

His vision or the blood weren't the issue, it was that his eyebrow was hanging down because of the cuts. I am pretty open to having fights go on whenever possible but you can't screw around when it comes to some of the stuff around the eyes.

 

[m9]

Luke Thomas was talking about it- it would be great if the doctors had some transparency. Like it would be great to know what he saw so we wouldn’t have to play this guessing/debate game. I wonder if that would violate HIPPA though. Idk I’m not a doctor


At the end of the day the fight wasn’t in Vegas so it doesn’t really matter what Vegas would do. I’ve still got no issue with it being called...it wasn’t competitive. His eye looked really nasty. Is it ideal? Of course not. But it is what it is. I don’t really feel like I missed out on anything.


That may have been the GOAT prelim card btw. Such savagery

Yeah they were great. Always nice when a card with great depth delivers like that.

 

[pistolpete11]

Luke Thomas was talking about it- it would be great if the doctors had some transparency. Like it would be great to know what he saw so we wouldn’t have to play this guessing/debate game. I wonder if that would violate HIPPA though. Idk I’m not a doctor


At the end of the day the fight wasn’t in Vegas so it doesn’t really matter what Vegas would do. I’ve still got no issue with it being called...it wasn’t competitive. His eye looked really nasty. Is it ideal? Of course not. But it is what it is. I don’t really feel like I missed out on anything.


That may have been the GOAT prelim card btw. Such savagery

I mean, you can say it is what it is about anything, but that doesn't make it right. The rule/commission differences from state-to-state (or country-to-country) is a problem in MMA. This isn't going to be the last fight in New York. It wasn't competitive up to that point, but what if it's say Khabib-Tony that gets stopped? What if Khabib loses his title and undefeated record because of a cut that wouldn't have stopped the fight in any other state? What if they f*** Tony again by stopping a fight that shouldn't have been stopped?

I agree, though, it would be nice to hear an actual explanation instead of us uneducated jabronies going back and forth about it.

 

[CDJ]

I mean, you can say it is what it is about anything, but that doesn't make it right. The rule/commission differences from state-to-state (or country-to-country) is a problem in MMA. This isn't going to be the last fight in New York. It wasn't competitive up to that point, but what if it's say Khabib-Tony that gets stopped? What if Khabib loses his title and undefeated record because of a cut that wouldn't have stopped the fight in any other state? What if they **** Tony again by stopping a fight that shouldn't have been stopped?

I agree, though, it would be nice to hear an actual explanation instead of us uneducated jabronies going back and forth about it.

It’s really the only way any of us can know for certain whether it’s a good call or not. I really do wonder if HIPPA is the issue there, because it really should already be in place if it’s not the issue

As far as the hypotheticals go it would certainly stink, however if khabib or Tony were getting handled like Diaz was I wouldn’t be beside myself about it being called