Euro: UEFA bans Man City for 2 CL seasons

[AB13]

Chelsea are the lucky ones in this situation. They bought all their trophies before FFP came into play and should be stripped of most of their honours purchased, but it won’t happen. f*** you for ruining football, Roman Abramovich.

 

[Live in the Now]

How is City a premier team? If not for being bought by an oil prince who pumped millions of dollars into the club, illegally too since it's why they are banned, they would be no different than a West Ham or Everton at best. The only reason they're considered a top team is because they bought their way their. Hopefully they hold the sanctions up and they're forced to build back up the right way. They will get massive money from player sales to buy replacements, they spend a ton on their youth facilities and have brought in a ton of top young players. They should be able to rebuild with their youth system and smart buys, they aren't going to fall off too bad if they buy smart. But they should be hurt for at least the next 3-4 years.

They're losing 100m in CL revenue and were already submitting fake accounts to disguise massive losses. Let's put it this way, if they're really banned from the CL their club status is completely untenable. They failed to win fans over the way that other new rich teams did, so they don't have those revenue streams to fall back on.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

You want them to ban Liverpool for something 7 years ago and that the two clubs settled themselves?

Which apparently was not really hacking but more of City security blunder. They forgot to remove accesses in their scouting system to one of their scout when they left for Liverpool.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How is City a premier team? If not for being bought by an oil prince who pumped millions of dollars into the club, illegally too since it's why they are banned, they would be no different than a West Ham or Everton at best. The only reason they're considered a top team is because they bought their way their. Hopefully they hold the sanctions up and they're forced to build back up the right way. They will get massive money from player sales to buy replacements, they spend a ton on their youth facilities and have brought in a ton of top young players. They should be able to rebuild with their youth system and smart buys, they aren't going to fall off too bad if they buy smart. But they should be hurt for at least the next 3-4 years.

Because they get premier results.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Again, they’re not being punished for FFP violations, they’re being punished because their response to past violations was to not remotely change their behavior and instead submit fraudulent information to UEFA to cover it.

Their financial information that they fraudulently submitted is part of FFP. It helps set the number they are allowed to spend to be in compliance.

 

[HoseEmDown]

They're losing 100m in CL revenue and were already submitting fake accounts to disguise massive losses. Let's put it this way, if they're really banned from the CL their club status is completely untenable. They failed to win fans over the way that other new rich teams did, so they don't have those revenue streams to fall back on.

They still have a massively rich owner. Will he want to spend like he did in the past when they don't have CL and UEFA is breathing down their necks? Who knows but they can still buy with the lost revenue. West Ham and Everton are spending 50M on players without any European football, City can too. If they seek KDB, Sterling and such that's massive profits that they can reinvest into the squad. I don't know their academy that well but they produced Sancho and have Foden who is highly rated. If they sell KDB and give the keys to Foden it will be rough year one and two but if he's as good as they say he can be close to that level in a few years. They just have to buy smarter especially on the back end and will have less room for error. But if the owner is still committed they have the money, the stadium is big enough to bring in profits, the have some name recognition still. They aren't go to fall into the Newcastle tier I don't think.

 

[Live in the Now]

They still have a massively rich owner. Will he want to spend like he did in the past when they don't have CL and UEFA is breathing down their necks? Who knows but they can still buy with the lost revenue. West Ham and Everton are spending 50M on players without any European football, City can too. If they seek KDB, Sterling and such that's massive profits that they can reinvest into the squad. I don't know their academy that well but they produced Sancho and have Foden who is highly rated. If they sell KDB and give the keys to Foden it will be rough year one and two but if he's as good as they say he can be close to that level in a few years. They just have to buy smarter especially on the back end and will have less room for error. But if the owner is still committed they have the money, the stadium is big enough to bring in profits, the have some name recognition still. They aren't go to fall into the Newcastle tier I don't think.

The wages are the problem now. They won't be allowed.

 

[HoseEmDown]

The wages are the problem now. They won't be allowed.

Clearly the big earners will be moved, those guys will want CL anyway. But they can still get talent in and pay good wages. There are teams outside the top 4 paying 100k a week for players. They won't be able to buy any player anymore until they work their way back up but they can still outspend over half the teams in the league easily and probably closer to all but 3 or 4.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Because they get premier results.

Because they bought their team illegally buy cooking the books. They weren't getting premier results with the likes of Shaun Wright-Phillips and Craig Bellamy. They aren't bringing in David Silva and Sergio Aguero if they weren't outspending the competition and paying wages others couldn't match.

 

[Live in the Now]

Clearly the big earners will be moved, those guys will want CL anyway. But they can still get talent in and pay good wages. There are teams outside the top 4 paying 100k a week for players. They won't be able to buy any player anymore until they work their way back up but they can still outspend over half the teams in the league easily and probably closer to all but 3 or 4.

If you take out the CL revenue they have less money than Spurs actually. If they have to get rid of the fake sponsorship they're clearly behind Spurs.

This is a total disaster for them.

 

[Ceremony]

Thinking real hard about how ZeroPT is taking this news rn.

 

[HoseEmDown]

If you take out the CL revenue they have less money than Spurs actually. If they have to get rid of the fake sponsorship they're clearly behind Spurs.

This is a total disaster for them.

I don't know the difference in revenue between the two without CL, is it close? Because Spurs haven't really sold anyone worth a damn since Bale? If the revenue is close, City doesn't have stadium debts, and they should get massive money in transfers they should be able to have more than Spurs. Clearly the transfer income won't last long but 3 or 4 windows of big moves the can get the revenue up to buy replacements. They have Foden and Garcia so two really good talents in costly areas to buy so that should save them. They'll fall off but still be top of the table. If Wolves can buy the way they do and get top 7 then City can do that plus buy a little more and better to at least be a Europa team yearly.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don't know the difference in revenue between the two without CL, is it close? Because Spurs haven't really sold anyone worth a damn since Bale? If the revenue is close, City doesn't have stadium debts, and they should get massive money in transfers they should be able to have more than Spurs. Clearly the transfer income won't last long but 3 or 4 windows of big moves the can get the revenue up to buy replacements. They have Foden and Garcia so two really good talents in costly areas to buy so that should save them. They'll fall off but still be top of the table. If Wolves can buy the way they do and get top 7 then City can do that plus buy a little more and better to at least be a Europa team yearly.

City would be around 70m less in revenue than Spurs if they had to get rid of the fake sponsorship and weren't in the CL. I think. But currently Spurs are in the CL, so that is probably not the best way to judge things. City received around 60m from the fake sponsorship they've just been busted for, and about 86 million from being in the CL.

There are a lot of variables because they were losing around 121 million a season before City was sold by Shinawatra. I don't really know what will happen.

 

[Blender]

Manchester City claimed revenues of £535m in 2018-2019. The estimates I read in The Guardian are that they will lose about £200m in revenue if they operate under the rules and lose CL for two years. Certainly will put them closer to Arsenal, Tottenham, and Chelsea in revenues which means they'll have to operate more like a normal wealthy club instead of spending another £1 billion on transfers over the next few years like they have recently.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Manchester City claimed revenues of £535m in 2018-2019. The estimates I read in The Guardian are that they will lose about £200m in revenue if they operate under the rules and lose CL for two years. Certainly will put them closer to Arsenal, Tottenham, and Chelsea in revenues which means they'll have to operate more like a normal wealthy club instead of spending another £1 billion on transfers over the next few years like they have recently.

That's how I see it too. They will be closer to the London clubs spending wise, not Newcastle and Burnley. They spent a lot of their youth set up which has already produced one top class player and a supposed other. So they should be able to bring up youth players like those London clubs as well. They also have an owner who seems more willing to spend then those clubs too so when they get their footing they should be spending again as long as it's within the rules this time. As long as they have that owner with deep pockets who will spend they won't fall off too far, they won't be a Champions league threat for awhile but should be challenging for that 4th spot again in a few years.

 

[hatterson]

Their financial information that they fraudulently submitted is part of FFP. It helps set the number they are allowed to spend to be in compliance.

Right, but the point is that they’re not being punished because they spent more than they earned. That’s what they got their first slap on the wrist for and what other teams for got similar punishments for.

The reason this is so far above and beyond other punishments is because, when they were caught the first time, they chose to commit fraud instead of even trying to comply with the rules.

If it was just a case of them spending more than they earned they might have got a transfer window ban and a small fine, but it was years of systemic fraud that got them the significant punishment.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Right, but the point is that they’re not being punished because they spent more than they earned. That’s what they got their first slap on the wrist for and what other teams for got similar punishments for.

The reason this is so far above and beyond other punishments is because, when they were caught the first time, they chose to commit fraud instead of even trying to comply with the rules.

If it was just a case of them spending more than they earned they might have got a transfer window ban and a small fine, but it was years of systemic fraud that got them the significant punishment.

I agree with all of that, but I think to punish Man City because they violated the rules and then lied as opposed to not punishing the other teams because they violated the rules and then didn't lie is weak. You aren't effecting much change. You are only coming off as self-important. Why should fans care overwhelmingly that they lied to UEFA as opposed to the principle that teams are violating the rules that are set out to bring about some level of equality in spending by the big teams?

And this discussion is semantics at this point. I think we all agree that Man City deserves punishment for what they did. My problem with all of this is that City got such a big punishment, and all the other teams get nothing. This does not seem to be a decision made to effect any change with the part of FFP that the majority of discussion about the topic centers around.

 

[Havre]

City are nowhere near Arsenal and Spurs in terms of revenue longer term if they are not allowed to do as they have in terms of spending.

City will be closer to Newcastle, Everton etc.

Obviously they got huge values built up in that squad so they won't just disappear, but hopefully they will have to build step by step like Arsenal and Spurs have before them.

 

[Live in the Now]

I agree with all of that, but I think to punish Man City because they violated the rules and then lied as opposed to not punishing the other teams because they violated the rules and then didn't lie is weak. You aren't effecting much change. You are only coming off as self-important. Why should fans care overwhelmingly that they lied to UEFA as opposed to the principle that teams are violating the rules that are set out to bring about some level of equality in spending by the big teams?

And this discussion is semantics at this point. I think we all agree that Man City deserves punishment for what they did. My problem with all of this is that City got such a big punishment, and all the other teams get nothing. This does not seem to be a decision made to effect any change with the part of FFP that the majority of discussion about the topic centers around.

There are some key components that you seem to not be aware of, or you are distorting them because they don't fit your argument and you don't want to back down.

The other teams that you seem to have a problem with were punished once. They were all punished the same way.

This is City's second punishment. This punishment was decided by an independent body of European judges. Not by UEFA.

For the record, the second time Milan were punished they were also banned from Europe. Galatasaray were also banned. Gala tried to appeal and did not win, so there's precedent to suggest City won't win either. So let's make this clear. Teams that are punished twice are banned from Europe. That has been the case for years. City has now been punished twice and they are banned from Europe. They can be banned again if they do not change whatever it is that got them banned in the first place, which is reporting false accounts that do not show them breaking the rules when they are breaking the rules.

By the way, England has their own rules that must be upheld or the club will receive points deductions. No matter what happens with the appeal, this Man City thing of making massive losses and being allowed to compete is over. City's grounds for appeal are that the e-mails were taken out of context, not that they didn't send fake financial records to UEFA.

There will be a massive exodus either this summer or the next regardless of if they're actually banned from Europe. People are neglecting that for some reason. The main problem for City is that these judges ruled their fake accounts weren't real and they now have to straighten out their books. Even if they win an appeal, it doesn't change that fact. If they don't straighten them out, there's no way UEFA will ever grant them a license to compete in Europe. Those are given out based on providing UEFA real information and teams are required to follow the rules.

 

[Live in the Now]

By the way, a lot of teams in Europe apply for licenses and are rejected every year. UEFA's brochure makes it sound like it's 12% of the teams. Lots of them are because they don't follow financial rules. You just don't ever hear about it because they don't qualify for Europe, but those teams are also banned from Europe. City is now joining them for the same reasons, but I think they might be the only one who tried to give UEFA fake information.

 

[phisherman]

Man City can easily rebuild from the money they will make from player sales.

 

[Live in the Now]

Man City can easily rebuild from the money they will make from player sales.

Everyone knows they have to balance their books with sales, so they will be absolutely robbed. They also won't be able to use all the money they get, and they won't have Pep. Easily is not the word I would use. If this is upheld they will have far less revenue than Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

And if it's not upheld they'll be able to spend 400 million every summer. So the Dortmund guy defending him will be really glad when they make it nearly impossible for his team to keep good players.

 

[Epictetus]

I'll wait and see how this plays out. All of this sounds too good to be true.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'll wait and see how this plays out. All of this sounds too good to be true.

If it gets successfully appealed it will be like 2010 all over again. Like when they were buying basically everyone they wanted and giving them 200k a week wages because nobody had that kind of money. Except they have way more money than that and would still dominate a heavily inflated market. Those fees were the top of the market back then and they didn't need to spend more even though they could have. The whole point of FFP in the first place was because the other clubs had begged UEFA to limit wage inflation as they didn't have the ability to pay players without incurring massive losses.

It's either City loses or CAS rules that UEFA doesn't have the power to enforce rules on their own competition. Meaning FFP is gone. We'll find out what happens with that in around 100 days, but again, other teams have been banned from Europe before.

 

[phisherman]

Everyone knows they have to balance their books with sales, so they will be absolutely robbed. They also won't be able to use all the money they get, and they won't have Pep. Easily is not the word I would use. If this is upheld they will have far less revenue than Liverpool, United, Arsenal, and Chelsea.

And if it's not upheld they'll be able to spend 400 million every summer. So the Dortmund guy defending him will be really glad when they make it nearly impossible for his team to keep good players.

I don't think they will be robbed. Agents will be looking to make bank if there's an exodus of these players.

And maybe Pep stays to try and prove he can build another team.