Player Discussion Tyson Barrie

[Tobias Kahun]

Best breakout passer? This coming from a chart that says he makes 1 extra pass per 5 games that results in an exit than someone else? Might need to break that down for with/without McDavid time. Not sure he can pull that off with the McDavid time reduced.

In any case, even with the few extra % of successful zone exits, too bad that doesn't make up for poor defensive play. He has already dropped down the depth chart because we give up so much when he's out there. Likely penciled in already to have to play with a young guy on the 3rd pair, which could get pretty messy.

Its weird how you're so upset about his defensive play but ready to promote Bouchard to more minutes.

 

[oobga]

He’s a valuable player. He’s put up points his whole career.

I don’t doubt he would be worse without PP time or playing time with McDavid. He was brought here to do those very things though.

His ES defensive game is really weak though and ES production has dropped off.

Appreciate what he did here, but my concern is that we're about to tank his trade value this coming season. He's declining and redundant in our lineup now. Would be nice for once to see this team to not be left holding an unmovable bag every summer and maybe get ahead of things a bit. Could really use the cap space this summer as well if we filled that 3rd RD spot with someone making appropriate money for that slot. Probably will HAVe to dump him somehow next summer for Bouch's next deal now.

Its weird how you're so upset about his defensive play but ready to promote Bouchard to more minutes.

Bouch was pushing play better than Barrie, by a good margin. Was a reason Barrie moved down the depth chart. Keith was the biggest liability on that Bouch/Keith pair with his gambling, giving up the blueline like crazy and 1 second lag telegraphed passing. I'm actually pretty positive on what a Kulak/Bouch pair will do.

 

[Barrsy]

Its weird how you're so upset about his defensive play but ready to promote Bouchard to more minutes.

Yeah, its really quite comical

 

[gordonhught]

Go Tyson go!

 

[SwedishFire]

A problem with the D is that Broberg is already the 4th best defensive dman, competing with Nurse about that, just playing a handful of games.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

A problem with the D is that Broberg is already the 4th best defensive dman, competing with Nurse about that, just playing a handful of games.

What?

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

Go Tyson go!

Let's go, Tyson!

 

[Anarchism]

If we can get some adequate prospect development on D (still pretty shaky).....Barrie will go alright (or should) probably a couple of weeks before the deadline.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We are keeping Barrie just to keep Bouch from further developing his offensive game to weaken his contract negotiation position? I don't think Bouch's camp will like that, and doing it will be pretty obvious. So I guess get ready for Bouch to insist on bridge deals if we are trying to suppress his numbers at the detriment of the team.

Why would Barrie lose the PP spot in general? Because it actually scored at a higher rate with Nurse than him over the last couple years. He is just collecting points that anyone else could in that spot, and we have another player on the team that could actually add more to it with a huge bomb of a shot. Do we want to win a cup or not? Developing Bouch ASAP is IMO imperative to this team winning. If we are scared of his next deal, sign him to an extension now. He already destroyed Barrie in Even strength production though, might be looking at 6M min long term already. Similar to Nurse, the ES production is already enough for a big deal, PP time or no. Gifting Barrie PP time to keep Bouch from getting more points will probably just sour the negotiation.

Wow. This is serious?

I guess you've ignored every bit of puck moving and skating movement and finesse skill by Barrie on the PP. Goes without saying the bolded is absolutely fictional.

D take time to develop. Its a positive that Bouch is getting that time. Its also a positive that Bouch gets to see what a premier offensive D can do out there with the puck.

This is what Barrie has put up in production since 2013-14 season when he first ramped it up.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Barrie 7th in whole league among D in that time, and quite clearly doing what hardly any other D can.

We have this player here, the best offensive D we've had since Pronger, and theres posters that want rid of him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Let's see the points if he loses that PP spot and McDavid time 5v5. And his possession stats as well at ES. I don't think it's gonna be good is my view. Which is why I think this summer was the shot to trade him without having to add sweetener.

Barrie is 8th in league production, EV, among all D since 2013-14. He's put up points wherever he plays. He's really good in Ozone on PP, and he's really good in offensive situations during EV play. Barrie makes plays. How could you not have seen any of them?

I've often maintained I like Barrie more in a unit with Drai than most of the forwards he see's. Barrie works smoothly with Drai. Even if Barrie is not with McD, he's very capable playing with Drai. In EV play.

Barrie has way more EV pts in his two seasons here than most of the forwards that have played with McDrai. he put up an astounding 48pts in 56GP just last season. One can critique Barrie for some things but to allege he's simply getting production because of McD ignores Barries whole career where production has been constant. it ignores Barries contribution here where he's one of our most prolific players, while being a D.

 

[Stoneman89]

Go Tyson, Go! (as in, go somewhere else)

 

[SwedishFire]

What?

There are only two defensemen that understands defense on the team. Ceci and Kulak.

 

[oobga]

Wow. This is serious?

I guess you've ignored every bit of puck moving and skating movement and finesse skill by Barrie on the PP. Goes without saying the bolded is absolutely fictional.

D take time to develop. Its a positive that Bouch is getting that time. Its also a positive that Bouch gets to see what a premier offensive D can do out there with the puck.

This is what Barrie has put up in production since 2013-14 season when he first ramped it up.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Barrie 7th in whole league among D in that time, and quite clearly doing what hardly any other D can.

We have this player here, the best offensive D we've had since Pronger, and theres posters that want rid of him.

Think we would have a differing opinion on his real value to winning in the present. I don't think he will come close to contributing what a 4.5M player should this coming season. I also see, in the last couple years, other guys on the PP putting up points at the same rate and the PP being even more successful without Barrie. Our PP lives and dies by how 3 forwards are doing. If those guys are on, barely matters who is on D as long as they aren't a giveaway machine. When those guys are off, abysmal, and Barrie didn't help one bit when the PP struggled last season.

His reputation and poor depth in our lineup (automatic PP time, 2nd assist parade playing with McDavid) has been sustaining his numbers while he has fallen off from the guy Colorado sold high on. His ES contributions have been be decline for a while, which is why he found himself falling down the depth chart.

Think I've laid out my future prediction here. I think we will regret not trading him this summer while we could get some decent assets in return.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Think we would have a differing opinion on his real value to winning in the present. I don't think he will come close to contributing what a 4.5M player should this coming season. I also see, in the last couple years, other guys on the PP putting up points at the same rate and the PP being even more successful without Barrie. Our PP lives and dies by how 3 forwards are doing. If those guys are on, barely matters who is on D as long as they aren't a giveaway machine. When those guys are off, abysmal, and Barrie didn't help one bit when the PP struggled last season.

His reputation and poor depth in our lineup has been sustaining his numbers while he has fallen off from the guy Colorado sold high on before he started to decline. His ES contributions have been be decline for a while, which is why he found himself falling down the depth chart.

Think I've laid out my future prediction here. I think we will regret not trading him this summer while we could get some decent assets in return.

IMO his skating has been taking a hit and this is why he is less of an offensive threat at ES. To his credit he upped his defensive game in the playoffs, but I am not sure if he can up his offensive game at ES while also continuing with his improved defensive play at this point in his career. We may or may not have shopped him, but $4.5 million AAV is a lot to move this offseason due to the lack of cap league wide.

 

[oobga]

Barrie is 8th in league production, EV, among all D since 2013-14. He's put up points wherever he plays. He's really good in Ozone on PP, and he's really good in offensive situations during EV play. Barrie makes plays. How could you not have seen any of them?

I've often maintained I like Barrie more in a unit with Drai than most of the forwards he see's. Barrie works smoothly with Drai. Even if Barrie is not with McD, he's very capable playing with Drai. In EV play.

Barrie has way more EV pts in his two seasons here than most of the forwards that have played with McDrai. he put up an astounding 48pts in 56GP just last season. One can critique Barrie for some things but to allege he's simply getting production because of McD ignores Barries whole career where production has been constant. it ignores Barries contribution here where he's one of our most prolific players, while being a D.

Just to add on ES production. Barrie has had 22 (9 primary) and 17 (12 primary) ES points the last 2 years. Bouch just had 35 ES points last season, 20 primary. So, maybe Bouch is our best offensive D since Pronger? Barrie hasn't put up more than 32 ES points in any season in his whole career.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just to add on ES production. Barrie has had 22 (9 primary) and 17 (12 primary) ES points the last 2 years. Bouch just had 35 ES points last season, 20 primary. So, maybe Bouch is our best offensive D since Pronger? Barrie hasn't put up more than 32 ES points in any season in his whole career.

32ES pts for a D is a hell of a lot. Starting with the first of your posts, the bolded part, your barometer is off. Barrie is one of the best production forwards in the NHL. Any usage.

But like @Oilhawks stated it made no sense whatsoever just to bump Bouchs stats just so we can pay him more in an upcoming contract. Bouch will remain here, and probably likes it here playing with two of the best players in hockey, but his ask would be higher if he gets many pts. Everything in time. The bomb isn't going anywhere. Its still a weapon in our arsenal.

Think we would have a differing opinion on his real value to winning in the present. I don't think he will come close to contributing what a 4.5M player should this coming season. I also see, in the last couple years, other guys on the PP putting up points at the same rate and the PP being even more successful without Barrie. Our PP lives and dies by how 3 forwards are doing. If those guys are on, barely matters who is on D as long as they aren't a giveaway machine. When those guys are off, abysmal, and Barrie didn't help one bit when the PP struggled last season.

His reputation and poor depth in our lineup (automatic PP time, 2nd assist parade playing with McDavid) has been sustaining his numbers while he has fallen off from the guy Colorado sold high on. His ES contributions have been be decline for a while, which is why he found himself falling down the depth chart.

Think I've laid out my future prediction here. I think we will regret not trading him this summer while we could get some decent assets in return.

This is a much different argument. I wouldn't have intervened if this was the assertion from the start. But you stated Barrie just picks up pts with McD that anybody else would, which is false.

 

[oobga]

IMO his skating has been taking a hit and this is why he is less of an offensive threat at ES. To his credit he upped his defensive game in the playoffs, but I am not sure if he can up his offensive game at ES while also continuing with his improved defensive play at this point in his career. We may or may not have shopped him, but $4.5 million AAV is a lot to move this offseason due to the lack of cap league wide.

I do question the better defensively part. 22% goals for without McDavid, but 100% with He feasted on Calgary with everyone else for sure.

It was a weird playoffs. Whole team had issues with consistency against LA who we should have beat pretty handily. Calgary just rolled over like losers. Then we get outclassed in a sweep. Keith was endlessly targeted on zone entries which was a handicap for Bouch. Barrie moved up and down the lineup. Nurse on one leg. Whole team had to deal with periods of Smith being a sieve and letting in weak shots. Was a hard playoffs to really judge many guys aside from McDrai who went supernova. I'm kinda sticking with the regular season for trying to figure out what guys will do next season.

Agree 4.5M is hard to move. Seattle would have been ideal, but they just full on gambled on broken Schultz to be their RHD offensive savior. Not sure who works anymore.

32ES pts for a D is a hell of a lot. Starting with the first of your posts, the bolded part, your barometer is off. Barrie is one of the best production forwards in the NHL. Any usage.

But like @Oilhawks stated it made no sense whatsoever just to bump Bouchs stats just so we can pay him more in an upcoming contract. Bouch will remain here, and probably likes it here playing with two of the best players in hockey, but his ask would be higher if he gets many pts. Everything in time. The bomb isn't going anywhere. Its still a weapon in our arsenal.


This is a much different argument. I wouldn't have intervened if this was the assertion from the start. But you stated Barrie just picks up pts with McD that anybody else would, which is false.

Bumping stats won't matter. He doesn't need PP points to make his case for 7M+ if he scores >30 ES points again. Nurse didn't need it either. When you produce that much at ES, especially if you blow out of the water a guy on the same team being gifted PP time, the PP production can just be assumed. And in the worst case, if Bouch's camp thinks he's being kept off the PP just to try to hurt his numbers...they aren't stupid. They will just insist on bridge deals until the Oilers are forced to let him get a 70 point season with the PP time, then we get to pay him 9M+ if we want to keep him.

Barrie scored 32 ES points almost a decade ago. His most recent total was 17. Less than half what Bouch produced.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I do question the better defensively part. 22% goals for without McDavid, but 100% with He feasted on Calgary with everyone else for sure.

It was a weird playoffs. Whole team had issues with consistency against LA who we should have beat pretty handily. Calgary just rolled over like losers. Then we get outclassed in a sweep. Keith was endlessly targeted on zone entries which was a handicap for Bouch. Barrie moved up and down the lineup. Nurse on one leg. Whole team had to deal with periods of Smith being a sieve and letting in weak shots. Was a hard playoffs to really judge many guys aside from McDrai who went supernova. I'm kinda sticking with the regular season for trying to figure out what guys will do next season.

Agree 4.5M is hard to move. Seattle would have been ideal, but they just full on gambled on broken Schultz to be their RHD offensive savior. Not sure who works anymore.



Bumping stats won't matter. He doesn't need PP points to make his case for 7M+ if he scores >30 ES points again. Nurse didn't need it either. When you produce that much at ES, especially if you blow out of the water a guy on the same team being gifted PP time, the PP production can just be assumed. And in the worst case, if Bouch's camp thinks he's being kept off the PP just to try to hurt his numbers...they aren't stupid. They will just insist on bridge deals until the Oilers are forced to let him get a 70 point season with the PP time, then we get to pay him 9M+ if we want to keep him.

Barrie scored 32 ES points almost a decade ago. His most recent total was 17. Less than half what Bouch produced.

Again Barrie had 48pts in 56GP just in the season before last. That is monster production for a D and best in league running. Sure we got older Barrie but still a lot of spot use for him where he does very well. i would shelter with more Ozone starts. he seems best suited to Ozone generally. The one aspect I expected him to be better at is puck transition. His timing passes to McD are not well timed, that said McD is a fast moving target, and faster than Barrie has ever seen. Its a wonder Drai hits McD so well. Drai is a freaking spear chucking QB out there throwing passes at a dime.

 

[oobga]

Again Barrie had 48pts in 56GP just in the season before last. That is monster production for a D and best in league running. Sure we got older Barrie but still a lot of spot use for him where he does very well. i would shelter with more Ozone starts. he seems best suited to Ozone generally. The one aspect I expected him to be better at is puck transition. His timing passes to McD are not well timed, that said McD is a fast moving target, and faster than Barrie has ever seen. Its a wonder Drai hits McD so well. Drai is a freaking spear chucking QB out there throwing passes at a dime.

Yeah, 2nd assist parade on the PP. Put Nurse there and he gets similar or better totals. He put up points on the PP at a higher rate than Barrie I believe, in addition to it scoring at a higher rate. I'm sure some here have bashed Nuge in the past for feasting on the McDrai PP. Saying that about Barrie would be even more valid.

IMO the PP will be just fine without Barrie. Even 1 armed Klef on the PP back in 19/20, the PP scored at a higher rate than it did with Barrie this last season. Personally, my main concern is if the PP scores, not thinking the guy having a lucky run of 2nd assists is the main driver of it and we need to hold onto him because of that.

I'll be hesitant too with Bouch piling on credit to him for PP points if he's not getting primary points. Right now, for years, the PP has been 95% driven by 2 or 3 guys. I actually do give some credit to Nuge too. But if those guys are off, the PP is dead. If they are on, it scores like mad. The D just needs to not give it away and be able to pass in a straight line. The dream of course would be that Bouch actually adds something new with his shot.

 

[MessierII]

Yeah, 2nd assist parade on the PP. Put Nurse there and he gets similar or better totals. He put up points on the PP at a higher rate than Barrie I believe, in addition to it scoring at a higher rate. I'm sure some here have bashed Nuge in the past for feasting on the McDrai PP. Saying that about Barrie would be even more valid.

IMO the PP will be just fine without Barrie. Even 1 armed Klef on the PP back in 19/20, the PP scored at a higher rate than it did with Barrie this last season. Personally, my main concern is if the PP scores, not thinking the guy having a lucky run of 2nd assists is the main driver of it and we need to hold onto him because of that.

I'll be hesitant too with Bouch piling on credit to him for PP points if he's not getting primary points. Right now, for years, the PP has been 95% driven by 2 or 3 guys. I actually do give some credit to Nuge too. But if those guys are off, the PP is dead. If they are on, it scores like mad. The D just needs to not give it away and be able to pass in a straight line. The dream of course would be that Bouch actually adds something new with his shot.

Who cares about primary points on a pp? That’s the weirdest criticism I’ve heard. A pp unit is unit. If a guy shoots from the point it bounces off a guys bum to another guys stick and in why is the guy who’s bum it hit more important to the play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This meant only as humor in respect of the latest Barrie convo;

 

[oobga]

Who cares about primary points on a pp? That’s the weirdest criticism I’ve heard. A pp unit is unit. If a guy shoots from the point it bounces off a guys bum to another guys stick and in why is the guy who’s bum it hit more important to the play.

Gives an idea on who the actual contributors are on a PP. If multiple guys all have very similar stats (maybe one gets a little 20% boost of secondary points one year, then regresses the next), and the PP scores at the same rate with all of them, then you have to question if that player is replaceable or not on the PP. IMO the stats very clearly show Barrie is not that integral to the success of the PP. We'll be keeping a guy for 4.5M to be average (could be worse, don't want to to lay too thick how lots of analytics say he is a drag on possession 5v5) on a 3rd pair and to do what multiple other guys could accomplish on the PP, if he doesn't lose the spot. If he loses the spot, then it's 4.5M for a 3rd pair guy and we have a hard time trying to get his cap space freed up to resign other guys next summer.

 

[oobga]

This meant only as humor in respect of the latest Barrie convo;

View attachment 576748

Need some good arguments to have a hope, sorry man Kinda blew up the ES point thing for you pointing out Bouch's totals and Barrie's tailing off. Pointed out multiple guys the PP scored at a higher rate with than Barrie.

I think lots of people are just holding onto an old reputation, maybe like the guy for signing a "discount". I've looked at the results too much to join you all now. Happy to be "that guy" in this thread for everyone. Usually you get to be, so only fair other people get it once in a while. Do try to pick my spots of course.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Islanders: Projecting Noah Dobson's next contract

The New York Islanders have a budding superstar in defenseman Noah Dobson. He's also in need of a contract, so, what might that look like?

eyesonisles.com

This is a little eye opening...7mil aav is what this guy is thinking to lock in Dobson long term. I'm not sure if there is a better comparable out there for Bouch but once this guy signs I think the clock is ticking on Bouch. It might be advisable to lock him into something similar while they still can.

 

[yukoner88]

Need some good arguments to have a hope, sorry man Kinda blew up the ES point thing for you pointing out Bouch's totals and Barrie's tailing off. Pointed out multiple guys the PP scored at a higher rate with than Barrie.

I think lots of people are just holding onto an old reputation, maybe like the guy for signing a "discount". I've looked at the results too much to join you all now. Happy to be "that guy" in this thread for everyone. Usually you get to be, so only fair other people get it once in a while. Do try to pick my spots of course.

Just because the majority disagree with you, does it mean hardly a few "get it" , when really, they just disagree with you