Value of: Tyson Barrie to Edmonton

[a mangy Meowth]

it's a coincidence that what i post falls in "avs related" topics

That Hertl post is damning. I'm interested to see how you bounce back from that one

 

[cgf]

You can't find a post in the thread suggesting that. It's always Barrie+, stop your bull****

Yeah, I may bring him up on connection with Drae a lot, but I generally add quite a bit of value to him...which is why so many of y'all hate my daydreams from the avs' end

I don't understand why anyone would bash Barrie. He'd be great with the Oilers, just what we need on the back end.

Respectfully Av fans he isn't the main piece in a Draisaitl trade.

I know...but that doesn't mean I can't daydream about crazy scenarios that actually might make it a good idea for you to let us have Drae

 

[Liferleafer]

You'll probably be pleased to know you are currently on track with all of the other boring Barrie detractors!

It's nearly always the exact same handful of arguments. +/- is a nearly useless statistic. You can read here, for example, about its problems and the many who disagree with it. It's an excellent article on the history of +/-, and the long history of criticisms of it. For example:

Players:

Poile and Lamoriello:

Burke:

McPhee:


And this gem:


Zone starts is a statistic doesn't actually have a huge impact. You can read more about that here and here. You might say "well yeah, but it shows Barrie's sheltered". Not really. 2014/15 (Barrie's first full season) to today, 80 players have played for the Avs. Of those 80 players across that timeframe no player has averaged more even strength minutes per game than Barrie. I'd be curious to hear more about how a defensman who plays as many even strength minutes has he does, on a team that has been as poor / mediocre as the Avs, has been somehow "sheltered" from the other team's best players.


Finally, I'm rather glad you opted to use two "advanced" statistics to back up your claim. Because it opens the door for a whole bunch of other advanced statistics which you now can't dismiss. Specifically, Andrew Berkshire of Sportsnet did a ranking of the 20 best defensmen in the league which you can read here. The ranking weighs the past three years and is 100% based off of advanced statistics. You'll be particularly pleased to know that, unlike your two statistics, it uses fifty-nine. The ranking uses that collection of weighted stats across three full seasons to measure offence, defense, transition, and the degree of difficulty defensmen face. What won't please you so much is that Barrie ends up #19 on that ranking.

Now, I've already laid out some of the problems with the ranking (specifically advanced stats) in a prior post, but I don't think you get to do that considering you just called Tyson Barrie a "one-dimensional dman incapable of playing defense", which you then proceeded to justify via just two statistics. Based on that you clearly don't see any problems with advanced statistics considering even +/- qualifies as a valid one in your book.

So...have fun with that ranking. It's rather undeniably infinitely more nuanced and comprehensive than your own two statistics, I think you'll agree, so I don't think you're in any position to discredit it, which would come across as rather hypocritical in addition to being uninformed about the player Tyson Barrie actually is.

I am neither an AVs fan or an Oilers fan....this post is f***ing stellar.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I would add a little bit to Barrie to get RNH, he’d be sick partner for Landeskog, giving us two legit lines.

 

[Ivan13]

I would add a little bit to Barrie to get RNH, he’d be sick partner for Landeskog, giving us two legit lines.

Still amazes me how willing some are to move Gabe from that line. And adding to Ty to get RNH, dear God.

 

[AvsGuy]

Most interesting thing in this thread is the Jost for Puljujaarvi idea. I like Jost but I wonder if he’ll ever fully pan out in Colorado. What’s poolparty’s deal, why has he stagnated so bad?

 

[strictlyrandy]

Hertl thread, how is that an Avs related topic?

That Dominic liked that post in the Hertl thread is pretty hilarious. Looba and Dom always seem to find themselves putting down the Avs whenever they can.

 

[flamesforcup]

Sweet ****ing Moses, no. you are wildly overrating the Rangers pieces. We’re not giving up all of that (Nuge, JP, 1st, 2nd, Bear and Strome? Are you high?) for two overrated rentals and a couple years of Barrie.

Thats not as bad as u made it out to be. Based on the way u replied i expected he offered Mcdavid for Hayes or something. The only notable pieces there are Nuge and the 1st and U are getting 3 Roster players back. If u guys could add Lucic into that deal would u not do it? It would instantly make u a much better team. U guys have no depth so a deal like this should probably be done.

 

[Foppberg]

That Dominic liked that post in the Hertl thread is pretty hilarious. Looba and Dom always seem to find themselves putting down the Avs whenever they can.

Lol yeah. I feel bad for those kind of posters honestly.

 

[cgf]

Lol yeah. I feel bad for those kind of posters honestly.

Instead of enjoying their own exciting teams they devote so much energy to shitting on an exciting team from the other conference that most people on the east coast don't even see much of or have to hear much about. Guess sharing even a sliver of the spotlight is too painful an ask

 

[Muffin]

Most interesting thing in this thread is the Jost for Puljujaarvi idea. I like Jost but I wonder if he’ll ever fully pan out in Colorado. What’s poolparty’s deal, why has he stagnated so bad?

That was so 2 games ago, Jost's been awesome since coming back from good concussion.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Has MisterT gotten up from that KO Avs44 dropped yet?

 

[McSuper]

-44 career and 60% offensive starts are facts, not buzzwords. He has a role and would fit many teams but not close for what the OP suggests.

I am an Oiler fan . Using +/- is a very flawed argument . 1) Bad teams makes players look bad . 2) Larsson was a - player on the NJD for all but his last year and I bet you would not call him a bad defender .

I had this same argument 2 years ago about MacKinnon . Oilers fans were saying the would not trade Draisaitl for him . I said I would make the trade in a heard beat . Again judging a player base on stats on a bad team is a very flawed way judging a player

 

[McSuper]

I would add a little bit to Barrie to get RNH, he’d be sick partner for Landeskog, giving us two legit lines.

I would like Barrie on the Oilers . Problem is they moved Draisaitl back with McDavid and if that is going to continue we can not trade RNH unless we have a good winger coming back what lets us separate McDavid and Draisaitl .

Do you have a winger that could be included in a deal ? We can add to RNH as long as the cap is even

Edit :

Oiler fans will come and argue with Bear and Bouchard Barrie is not a need . Bouchard will become the Oilers top pairing D giving him a extra year to develop will not kill him . Even if you trade Barrie at next year deadline if Bouchard is ready you will get a good haul .

For the next 2 years

Nurse Barrie
Klefbom Larsson
Russell Bear

That D is much more balance

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Isn't Nugent hopkins a 50 point average centre who is a career minus? Seems like the last thing the Aves need.

Its like acquiring another MacGinnon.