Tyson Barrie Discussion

[LeafingTheWay]

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You must be watching a different sport if you think Barrie has been good at any point beyond the 2 games after Keefe took over.

I have never seen a player be so poor defensively and offensively

5v5 Barrie before Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.26 (3rd)
xGF/60 = 47.61 (5th)
HDCA/60 = 10.74 (4th)
HDCF% = 44.4 (5th)
GA/60 = 3.44 (5th)
GF% = 33.33% (6th)

5v5 Barrie after Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.09 (2nd)
xGF/60 = 56.8 (1st)
HDCA/60 = 10.2 (1st)
HDCF% = 54.67 (2nd)
GA/60 = 2.1 (3rd)
GF% = 53.33% (3rd)

His offensive zone starts have stayed relatively the same (2-3% more), yet he's producing FAR better results than he did before. Heck, he's leading the team D in a lot of categories.

 

[DarkKnight]

5v5 Barrie before Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.26 (3rd)
xGF/60 = 47.61 (5th)
HDCA/60 = 10.74 (4th)
HDCF% = 44.4 (5th)
GA/60 = 3.44 (5th)
GF% = 33.33% (6th)

5v5 Barrie after Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.09 (2nd)
xGF/60 = 56.8 (1st)
HDCA/60 = 10.2 (1st)
HDCF% = 54.67 (2nd)
GA/60 = 2.1 (3rd)
GF% = 53.33% (3rd)

His offensive zone starts have stayed relatively the same (2-3% more), yet he's producing FAR better results than he did before. Heck, he's leading the team D in a lot of categories.

He did absolutely nothing and was a disaster, then did some really good things for three games, now he’s back to doing not much of anything. Just translating for you.

 

[Mess]

He did absolutely nothing and was a disaster, then did some really good things for three games, now he’s back to doing not much of anything. Just translating for you.

Babcock was loyal to longtime original Leaf Morgan Rielly who was coming off a 20 goal 70 point season Norris worthy season, and Barrie was the new guy and had to earn his time and opportunity while adjusting to a new team. teammates and system.

Keefe is giving Barrie more opportunities but are coming at the expense of Morgan, who has now been demoted off the top PP unit.

Trying to find some common ground so that Rielly isn't slighted, playing them together as a trial balloon is the current strategy and while offensively it makes some sense, defensively he has been a liability based on opportunities for the opposition.

Barrie has loads of offensive talent, that was never the problem, it was just an adjustment to his new surroundings but he is a high risk / high reward whenever he is on the ice.

 

[Cor]

Anybody pays Barrie more than gardner they are crazy
Hes far from being even a 6 million dollar man
Get rid of ceci and Barrie as soon as u decide the season is lost
I'd say around jan 1 if we are around 500
Make a cliff fletcher type deal

Like a Steen and Coliacavo for Lee Stempniak type Fletcher deal?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

He did absolutely nothing and was a disaster, then did some really good things for three games, now he’s back to doing not much of anything. Just translating for you.

How is he a disaster?

As a Gardiner fan, I put up with fans that trashed on Gardiner for one bad play every 5 games but fans that never recognized/realized his amazing transition play (before his back injury last year). Now we have another better verison in Barrie, and it's happening to him now. Barrie will only be recognized for a few bad plays and the Babcock verison of Barrie as opposed to the rest of the amazing games he's played under Keefe.

It's confirmation bias IMO.

 

[RoadWarrior]

How is he a disaster?

He's a minus 12 while having a positive CorsiRel. That's truly amazing. So either the leaf goaltending is junk (I'll concede the backup games) or he's gifting the puck to the other team in prime scoring areas on a regular basis.

Defensively he's Jake Gardiner on steroids.

To be honest I'd move him to the wing and trade for a RHD.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

He's a minus 12 while having a positive CorsiRel. That's truly amazing. So either the leaf goaltending is junk (I'll concede the backup games) or he's gifting the puck to the other team in prime scoring areas on a regular basis.

Defensively he's Jake Gardiner on steroids.

To be honest I'd move him to the wing and trade for a RHD.

We are talking about Barrie under Keefe. He is a - 1 during that timespan. As I've shown before, his stats are shown again below. In terms of Gardiner: Offensively, Gardiner was underwhelming. Defensively, he was underrated. Transition-game he was amazing. That is the same thing with Barrie, except Barrie is better defensively, offensively and slightly worse transition-wise.

5v5 Barrie before Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.26 (3rd)
xGF/60 = 47.61 (5th)
HDCA/60 = 10.74 (4th)
HDCF% = 44.4 (5th)
GA/60 = 3.44 (5th)
GF% = 33.33% (6th)

5v5 Barrie after Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.09 (2nd)
xGF/60 = 56.8 (1st)
HDCA/60 = 10.2 (1st)
HDCF% = 54.67 (2nd)
GA/60 = 2.1 (3rd)
GF% = 53.33% (3rd)


Defensemen like Doughty, Karlsson, Burns would never succeed in Toronto. Thank god they never came here, their careers would have been ruined

 

[DarkKnight]

How is he a disaster?

As a Gardiner fan, I put up with fans that trashed on Gardiner for one bad play every 5 games but fans that never recognized/realized his amazing transition play (before his back injury last year). Now we have another better verison in Barrie, and it's happening to him now. Barrie will only be recognized for a few bad plays and the Babcock verison of Barrie as opposed to the rest of the amazing games he's played under Keefe.

It's confirmation bias IMO.

He was a disaster to start the year. Confirmation bias, please. You’re own stats showed it dude???

 

[LeafingTheWay]

He was a disaster to start the year. Confirmation bias, please. You’re own stats showed it dude???

Yeah they showed he was bad before Keefe and great with Keefe.

You replied to my post saying he's only been good in 3 games??

 

[DarkKnight]

Yeah they showed he was bad before Keefe and great with Keefe.

You replied to my post saying he's only been good in 3 games??

Since then he has one secondary assist.

 

[hullsy47]

Like a Steen and Coliacavo for Lee Stempniak type Fletcher deal?

No I mean a big multi player deal

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Since then he has one secondary assist.

While being good defensively and playing a strong possession game. Is that not what we all wanted?? The points will come no doubt, but he's back to being good defensively with a strong possession game for the past 9 - 10 games.

I really wonder what's going to happen to Rielly. If you guys are trashing on Barrie and not to re-sign him, why on earth would we even contemplate re-signing Rielly. He also has one assist in his last 6 games like Barrie.

 

[Dough72]

The other night Reilly gave up a free breakaway but since it didn't go in the net it doesn't show up in stats as anything more than a humble scoring chance against. Some equations will at least differentiate that it was from in close, but will still just add it to the list with a bunch of others plays that all defencemen give up because hockey is hockey and forwards are good at sneaking in. But that play was a big deal and absolute garbage defence. I don't know if Barrie is plaything any better defensively with Keefe maybe he is, but there are always going to be holes with these stats and it is hardly rare they produce poor conclusions, so they are absolutely not a final ruling on a matter like some kind of mic drop moment. They are nothing remotely resembling that.

 

[Stephen]

The other night Reilly gave up a free breakaway but since it didn't go in the net it doesn't show up in stats as anything more than a humble scoring chance against. Some equations will at least differentiate that it was from in close, but will still just add it to the list with a bunch of others plays that all defencemen give up because hockey is hockey and forwards are good at sneaking in. But that play was a big deal and absolute garbage defence. I don't know if Barrie is plaything any better defensively with Keefe maybe he is, but there are always going to be holes with these stats and it is hardly rare they produce poor conclusions, so they are absolutely not a final ruling on a matter like some kind of mic drop moment. They are nothing remotely resembling that.

Rielly has been a disaster defensively all year. He's been extremely panicked with his decision making to push the pace and it often blows up in our faces. How often do we see those ill timed outlet passes fired into a crowd only for the turnover to occur and an odd man rush back our way. Someone needs to be out there to calm him down.

 

[RoadWarrior]

We are talking about Barrie under Keefe. He is a - 1 during that timespan. As I've shown before, his stats are shown again below. In terms of Gardiner: Offensively, Gardiner was underwhelming. Defensively, he was underrated. Transition-game he was amazing. That is the same thing with Barrie, except Barrie is better defensively, offensively and slightly worse transition-wise.

5v5 Barrie before Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.26 (3rd)
xGF/60 = 47.61 (5th)
HDCA/60 = 10.74 (4th)
HDCF% = 44.4 (5th)
GA/60 = 3.44 (5th)
GF% = 33.33% (6th)

5v5 Barrie after Keefe (out of the 6D):
xGA/60 = 2.09 (2nd)
xGF/60 = 56.8 (1st)
HDCA/60 = 10.2 (1st)
HDCF% = 54.67 (2nd)
GA/60 = 2.1 (3rd)
GF% = 53.33% (3rd)


Defensemen like Doughty, Karlsson, Burns would never succeed in Toronto. Thank god they never came here, their careers would have been ruined

If you isolate every even strength goal against in the last 10 games you'd still be Barrie factoring in on many of them. The overall team defense has improved by covering the slot but Barrie is still a culprit on many opposition scoring chances against including odd man rushes where Freddy makes the save.

He's just not good enough to be a top pairing defenseman and is dragging down Rielly.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Rielly has been a disaster defensively all year. He's been extremely panicked with his decision making to push the pace and it often blows up in our faces. How often do we see those ill timed outlet passes fired into a crowd only for the turnover to occur and an odd man rush back our way. Someone needs to be out there to calm him down.

Rielly needs a veteran stabilizer like hainsey to help him out. The Barrie- Rielly pairing just isn't working.

 

[DarkKnight]

While being good defensively and playing a strong possession game. Is that not what we all wanted?? The points will come no doubt, but he's back to being good defensively with a strong possession game for the past 9 - 10 games.

I really wonder what's going to happen to Rielly. If you guys are trashing on Barrie and not to re-sign him, why on earth would we even contemplate re-signing Rielly. He also has one assist in his last 6 games like Barrie.

Yes that pairing doesn’t work, a top pair that’s sheltered is strange. Also our face off win percentage is masking possession.

 

[goleafsgo1990]

Rielly has been a disaster defensively all year. He's been extremely panicked with his decision making to push the pace and it often blows up in our faces. How often do we see those ill timed outlet passes fired into a crowd only for the turnover to occur and an odd man rush back our way. Someone needs to be out there to calm him down.

We need a Hainsey replacement. Put Holl with Rielly?! He's the only one with poise in the D zone. Muzz is up there too but he has his fair share of brain-farts.

Christ, just get rid of Ceci/Barrie and get some one dimensional shutdown defenders..Would work better than this current sh*t-show. 6 Holls making around ~4mil in total would perform better than the so-called 3 top pairing D we currently have.

But Dubas is "bullish" on our D so I doubt there's much change this season.

 

[Stephen]

Rielly needs a veteran stabilizer like hainsey to help him out. The Barrie- Rielly pairing just isn't working.

Yeah for sure. Rielly is basically a great offensive defenseman who likely won't be an elite defensive presence. The best way to utilize that kind of player is to make sure there's someone good on the back end to cover and let him focus on the offensive side of things.

 

[horner]

If dumb dumb doesn't trade both
Barrie and Ceci at the deadline then he is really f***ing dumb .

We will need assets for a top 4 young right dman

Trade for Hainsey at the deadline ( 3 Rd Rd pk or prospect )

Bring up Ljiligren or Sandin

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Yes that pairing doesn’t work, a top pair that’s sheltered is strange. Also our face off win percentage is masking possession.

Dude come'on you say you're watching the games closely but you haven't realized Muzzin-Holl are our top-pairing under Keefe?

Against Colorodo? Who faced MacKinnon? Muzzin-Holl
Against Calgary? Who faced Monahan/Gaudreau? Muzzin-Holl
Etc

Just like in San Jose before Karlsson came: Burns always played 25 mins a night, but it was always Vlasic-Braun that were the shutdown pairing. Burns would eat up all other minutes, just like Rielly/Barrie are doing now with the shutdown pair Muzzin-Holl.

Keep the D-pairings together as they've been fantastic so far. Makes zero sense to change them

 

[horner]

Would love to some how trade for

Zadorov
Or
Nurse

That being said next year I would sign one of

Harmonic or Brodie

Resign Muzzin ( we need his toughness and veteran leadership on the Blueline )

Rielly. Harmonic or Brodie
Muzzin. Holl
Dermot Ljiligren
Sandin

Trade
Ceci and Barrie this trade deadline
We will need assets for a young top pairing dman

 

[horner]

Dude come'on you say you're watching the games closely but you haven't realized Muzzin-Holl are our top-pairing under Keefe?

Against Colorodo? Who faced MacKinnon? Muzzin-Holl
Against Calgary? Who faced Monahan/Gaudreau? Muzzin-Holl
Etc

Just like in San Jose before Karlsson came: Burns always played 25 mins a night, but it was always Vlasic-Braun that were the shutdown pairing.

Keep the D-pairings together as they've been fantastic so far. It's surprising how many people on here want Holl to go to Riellys pairing since they still don't realize that Muzzin - Holl are our shutdown, and Rielly-Barrie eat everything else up.

I agree with you
Muzzin and Holl have been great
Jake is showing Holl how to be a tough dman
Shutdown pair this yr and next yr

I would trade Barrie and Ceci ( eat 1 mil )

Trade for Hainsey ( 3 Rd or prospect )

Rielly Hainsey
Muzzin Holl
Dermot Ljiligren

I think our d would be better

 

[LeafingTheWay]

If you isolate every even strength goal against in the last 10 games you'd still be Barrie factoring in on many of them. The overall team defense has improved by covering the slot but Barrie is still a culprit on many opposition scoring chances against including odd man rushes where Freddy makes the save.

He's just not good enough to be a top pairing defenseman and is dragging down Rielly.

That is not the top pairing. Where did you get that from? Rielly and Barrie are on the 2nd pairing.

Muzzin and Holl are the shut-down top-pairing. Rielly had his shut-down role stripped away by Keefe

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The other night Reilly gave up a free breakaway but since it didn't go in the net it doesn't show up in stats as anything more than a humble scoring chance against. Some equations will at least differentiate that it was from in close, but will still just add it to the list with a bunch of others plays that all defencemen give up because hockey is hockey and forwards are good at sneaking in. But that play was a big deal and absolute garbage defence. I don't know if Barrie is plaything any better defensively with Keefe maybe he is, but there are always going to be holes with these stats and it is hardly rare they produce poor conclusions, so they are absolutely not a final ruling on a matter like some kind of mic drop moment. They are nothing remotely resembling that.

Plays loadsbof minutes and is on the ice for lots of goals because of ice time QoC and poor defense. I really don't like his game this year. I am actually getting tired of the poor defensive defensemen we have beennforce fed for years. I would move Rielly to St Louis for pietrangelo if he came with a extension signed. Start building the defense around a guy like him with the young guys and i like the shape of our defense moving forward.

Holl for example is a rock defensively already and what a great surprise he is. He is dependable and plays steady and consistent.

That bodes well for the future defense at a reasonable price possibly by getying Holl signed.

We need work horses on defense that are actually strong defensively. At least thats my petsonal wish i should say.

I would trade Reilly like anyone ekse for all the right readons