Player Discussion Tyler Myers thread

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This post is a good example of how low expectations for Benning's players have gotten.

Alex Tuch is a not that great. He had 8 goals in 42 games this season. In the playoffs against Chicago and Dallas, he had 1 goal in 10 games.

Yes, he torched the Fantenberg-Benn pairing against the Canucks. Then Myers came back and he settled down a bit.

The fact that "this $6M defenseman made the sheltered Canucks 3rd pairing look okays" is not an endorsement of Myers *at all*. Myers is doing what you would expect a $1.5M free agent to sign, not $6M.

Myers is the guy who lost a top 4 job to Troy Stecher, himself a borderline top 4 dman, during the season this year. That's an atrocious performance for the money and term given him. Him stopping Alex Tuch for a game or two in the playoffs is nothing special. So did de Haan-Boqvist in Chicago.

Nonsense...

'He skates and moves the puck well, possesses a physical element the team sometimes lacks and, despite his defensive deficiencies, Myers still led Vancouver in even-strength ice time (18:35) – slightly ahead of Edler and Hughes.'

Myers logged more minutes than Stecher in the playoffs as well.

 

[bossram]

You do realize that Shattenkirk was making $6.65M AAV prior to being bought out and joining the Lightning right? That "obvious" offensive ability? Last season, he put up 2 goals and 28 points. Good for Shattenkirk for turning his game around but let's not pretend that he was some superior defenseman who teams should have tried hard to sign.
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Yah he was on a 6.65 AAV...and then he wasn't. He signed at 1.75 with Tampa, which was a great steal. I'd rather have offered Shattenkirk 3-4 million on a 1 year deal than what Myers received.

And yah, I think everyone could see there was offensive upside based on his history.

Your chart is kind of a case of inputs vs outputs. Shattenkirk actually still had pretty decent xG and RAPM differentials despite having poorer microstats. There's also a lot of bias due to systems (e.g. NYR defensemen overall play very passive on zone entry defense, vs. WPG's system encourages defensemen to step up a lot).

I'm not even saying Myers is a terrible player. I'm saying we got a bad deal, one that's going to be an issue with the cap going forward. And that there were better deals out there.

 

[MS]

This post is a good example of how low expectations for Benning's players have gotten.

Alex Tuch is a not that great. He had 8 goals in 42 games this season. In the playoffs against Chicago and Dallas, he had 1 goal in 10 games.

Yes, he torched the Fantenberg-Benn pairing against the Canucks. Then Myers came back and he settled down a bit.

The fact that "this $6M defenseman made the sheltered Canucks 3rd pairing look okays" is not an endorsement of Myers *at all*. Myers is doing what you would expect a $1.5M free agent to sign, not $6M.

Myers is the guy who lost a top 4 job to Troy Stecher, himself a borderline top 4 dman, during the season this year. That's an atrocious performance for the money and term given him. Him stopping Alex Tuch for a game or two in the playoffs is nothing special. So did de Haan-Boqvist in Chicago.

No kidding. Tuch has somehow become the new Ferland. The guy is a solid middle-6 winger who can fly when he gets going who was able to catch the terrible-skating (and terrible in general) Benn-Fantenberg pairing flatfooted a few times on the rush. That any somewhat decent player could have been an upgrade there should not have been a surprise at all.

 

[Melvin]

At some point (and maybe not in this thread?) we should really talk about how atrocious the Canucks defense was in general last year.

I don't think people realize ... on a better team, the season Markstrom just had probably gets him votes for the Hart. He, along with a top PP unit, turned the Canucks into a fringe contender from what would have otherwise likely been another season of missing the playoffs.

At even strength, the Canucks D simply got torched on the regular, and going into next season likely without Tanev, and Edler being 34 years of age, the team kinda desparately needs Myers to have a big year?

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

At some point (and maybe not in this thread?) we should really talk about how atrocious the Canucks defense was in general last year.

I don't think people realize ... on a better team, the season Markstrom just had probably gets him votes for the Hart. He, along with a top PP unit, turned the Canucks into a fringe contender from what would have otherwise likely been another season of missing the playoffs.

At even strength, the Canucks D simply got torched on the regular, and going into next season likely without Tanev, and Edler being 34 years of age, the team kinda desparately needs Myers to have a big year?

Yup. Markstrom was 4th in save percentage of goalies with atleast 40 games, and the team still was 21st best in GA/GP. The amount of times they gave up 35 and 40+ shots is what you would expect from the Senators, or Red Wings. This was with a year where the defence was healthy too.

 

[F A N]

Yah he was on a 6.65 AAV...and then he wasn't. He signed at 1.75 with Tampa, which was a great steal. I'd rather have offered Shattenkirk 3-4 million on a 1 year deal than what Myers received.

And yah, I think everyone could see there was offensive upside based on his history.

Your chart is kind of a case of inputs vs outputs. Shattenkirk actually still had pretty decent xG and RAPM differentials despite having poorer microstats. There's also a lot of bias due to systems (e.g. NYR defensemen overall play very passive on zone entry defense, vs. WPG's system encourages defensemen to step up a lot).

I'm not even saying Myers is a terrible player. I'm saying we got a bad deal, one that's going to be an issue with the cap going forward. And that there were better deals out there.

Sure if there was an actual decision to be made there. But there wasn't. Shattenkirk was bought out on August 1st and he was not an obvious target of a buy out. There were also other teams after Shattenkirk. I think the Lightning had also previously pursued Shattenkirk.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

At some point (and maybe not in this thread?) we should really talk about how atrocious the Canucks defense was in general last year.

I don't think people realize ... on a better team, the season Markstrom just had probably gets him votes for the Hart. He, along with a top PP unit, turned the Canucks into a fringe contender from what would have otherwise likely been another season of missing the playoffs.

At even strength, the Canucks D simply got torched on the regular, and going into next season likely without Tanev, and Edler being 34 years of age, the team kinda desparately needs Myers to have a big year?

This came up in the interview Harman Dayal did with Travis Green: How analytics helped lead Travis Green and the Canucks back to the playoffs

Basically, a lot of Vancouver's defensive shortcomings are due to how aggressively they forechecked. Given their offensive improvement last season the trade-off appears to justify itself.

 

[mossey3535]

This came up in the interview Harman Dayal did with Travis Green: How analytics helped lead Travis Green and the Canucks back to the playoffs

Basically, a lot of Vancouver's defensive shortcomings are due to how aggressively they forechecked. Given their offensive improvement last season the trade-off appears to justify itself.

Really? Because almost every team in the playoffs is using an aggressive forecheck and they don't have to trade-off with defensive issues. It's easy to argue quite a few teams had a more aggressive forecheck than ours. Of course most of those teams also had more defensive depth than us.

Also, why is this seemingly not an issue for the top pairing?

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

This post is a good example of how low expectations for Benning's players have gotten.

Alex Tuch is a not that great. He had 8 goals in 42 games this season. In the playoffs against Chicago and Dallas, he had 1 goal in 10 games.

Yes, he torched the Fantenberg-Benn pairing against the Canucks. Then Myers came back and he settled down a bit.

The fact that "this $6M defenseman made the sheltered Canucks 3rd pairing look okays" is not an endorsement of Myers *at all*. Myers is doing what you would expect a $1.5M free agent to sign, not $6M.

Myers is the guy who lost a top 4 job to Troy Stecher, himself a borderline top 4 dman, during the season this year. That's an atrocious performance for the money and term given him. Him stopping Alex Tuch for a game or two in the playoffs is nothing special. So did de Haan-Boqvist in Chicago.

This post is a good example of the amount of factual inaccuracies in posts on this forum.

Your "Myers lost his job to Stecher" statement was already disassembled masterfully by PoM. In sum, it was determined to be incorrect.

I would check your Tuch stats against Dallas/Chicago, because again, they're incorrect. He had 2 goals and 2 assists in 10 games against these two teams.

He did have far more impact in the Chicago series to my eye, and the stats back that up, as he averaged over 3 shots per game. Here's Pete DeBoer on his "not that great" performance:

“He could have had four or five goals in this series, so it was nice for him to finally bang one in there.”

I thought his performance slipped against Dallas, because Dallas has a bunch of huge, mobile defencemen like Myers. That's the only type of defenceman that can stop a playoff-time Tuch, not any bottom-pairing defenceman as you're insinuating. In fact, your argument only supports the importance of Myers to our team.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I thought his performance slipped against Dallas, because Dallas has a bunch of huge, mobile defencemen like Myers.

"Myers was as effective at stopping Tuch as guys like Jamie Oleksiak and Andrej Sekera" is not the endorsement of a $30M defensemen you think it is.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Tragic defensively. Slower than last year. 5 more years of this absolute garbage.

 

[Canucks LB]

He has been pretty good so far this year, Let's hope he can have a decent season.
Need to find him a steady partner tho.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Tragic defensively. Slower than last year. 5 more years of this absolute garbage.

*4

 

[Diamonddog01]

I didn't mind him last year (for the most part) despite being overpaid but he looks abysmal out there at the moment imo. I'd explore sending a pick or prospect to Seattle to ensure they claim him.

 

[I am toxic]

At some point (and maybe not in this thread?) we should really talk about how atrocious the Canucks defense was in general last year.

I don't think people realize ... on a better team, the season Markstrom just had probably gets him votes for the Hart. He, along with a top PP unit, turned the Canucks into a fringe contender from what would have otherwise likely been another season of missing the playoffs.

At even strength, the Canucks D simply got torched on the regular, and going into next season likely without Tanev, and Edler being 34 years of age, the team kinda desparately needs Myers to have a big year?

Marky should have been in both the Vezina and Hart discussions last year.

Media pundits and GM's are mostly idiots who can't see beyond something sparkly when it comes to evaluating these things.

 

[kanucks25]

He is what he is, anyone who knew him before signing with the Canucks pretty much got what they expected.

He'll have some good games where he'll use his size and skating effectively, and then other games he'll be completely lost looking like a drunk giraffe.

He's average, at best, and I don't think any team with cup aspirations should rely on him to be one of their key guys. Unfortunately we're paying like him he is one.

 

[kanucks25]

And we have ourselves a drunk giraffe game.

 

[4Twenty]

Poor Demko

 

[Breakers]

Shoot this thread title into the sun.

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Bench him

 

[PavelBure10]

Just as we're finally getting close to be getting rid of Eriksson's contract, we have Myers contract to take his place. Another horrible contract via Jim Benning.

 

[Canucks LB]

Remember when I said he was decent so far, yikes after tonight

 

[PG Canuck]

I'm so disgusted, I took the word "appreciation" out of the thread title. No one this bad deserves it.

Embarassing hockey player. I'd rather have Luca Sbisa back.

 

[canucksfan]

He's the defensive version of Loui.

 

[IslandBeast]

Really good stat line tonight...if you're in a banger league on yahoo