Prospect Info: Tyler Bertuzzi

[Frk It]

This was their plan:



Who was the better pick than Bertuzzi? Give me some names in here. Then after few years, we'll check how great players each of them became.

It's not the end of the world if this pick will or won't pan out.

Of course it's not the end of the world, it's just not an efficient use of a 2nd round pick.

You pick up guys like him in rounds 5/6/7 or as undrafted free agents. Drafting them in the 2nd round is a waste.

 

[Bench]

Bertuzzi. The pick that ended the world.

 

[Frk It]

Bertuzzi. The pick that ended the world.

It's just frustrating. I think I will just rationalize it by telling myself we never traded back to get Mantha and then we got Bertuzzi for free as an undrafted free agent. That's a story I would rather hear.

Just sucks it's not the truth lol

 

[newfy]

It's just frustrating. I think I will just rationalize it by telling myself we never traded back to get Mantha and then we got Bertuzzi for free as an undrafted free agent. That's a story I would rather hear.

Just sucks it's not the truth lol

So youve watched him enough to know he wasnt worth that pick or you just dont trust the wings staff in their evaluation of players?

 

[Frk It]

So youve watched him enough to know he wasnt worth that pick or you just dont trust the wings staff in their evaluation of players?

I don't trust the fact that there is such a huge disparity between where he was picked by the Wings and where he was rated as a skater by virtually everyone else.

For European guys who only Hakan or a handful of people have seen. That is one thing. For a guy who plays in Canada and is scouted by many. Pretty concerning.

I think the connection to Bertuzzi skewed the pick in a big way.

 

[Bench]

Well, the pure statistically likelihood he becomes a significant player is small. So being doubtful he'll be a good pick is actually the safest bet.

Having trust this longshot turns into a significant NHL player is actually the risky opinion, even if it agrees with Wings scouting.

On the highly improbable but totally did happen flip side, if Jamie Benn would have been drafted in the 2nd round, people would have said many of the same things about a reach.

 

[Frk It]

Well, the pure statistically likelihood he becomes a significant player is small. So being doubtful he'll be a good pick is actually the safest bet.

Having trust this longshot turns into a significant NHL player is actually the risky opinion, even if it agrees with Wings scouting.

On the highly improbable but totally did happen flip side, if Jamie Benn would have been drafted in the 2nd round, people would have said many of the same things about a reach.

It's encouraging that he is still growing, and that he is a relative of Bertuzzi. Would lead you to believe that he could end up with a power forward's body one day.

Maybe he could be a late bloomer guy who comes on later, but seems like his offensive skills/production still have a long way to go. His transition from Midget to major juniors has been pretty underwhelming, but maybe developing physically would help the rest of his game.

All things considered when you weigh the pros vs cons it doesn't add up to a 2nd round pick. Part of it just bugs me that he is described as a "pest." Makes me think of Sean Avery or Matt Cooke, aka guys I absolutely hate.

Do I trust the Red Wings drafting, yeah I do. But that's not to say they don't make mistakes either. Look at Tom McCollum.

 

[Bench]

You're not wrong by any stretch of the imagination. And I think the odds are you'll end up very correct.

It's just too early to say right now. You know the old argument goes, when folks criticize our scouting, "If the Wings knew Zetterberg was so good, why did they risk him in the later rounds?" And that's a fair point. There obviously was some luck in the Datsyuk and Zetterberg picks, because if they knew you'd have to assume they'd snag them in the 2nd round, 3rd at the latest...

So maybe they feel they know something here. But again, just to reiterate, the odds are heavily in favor in 10 years we barely remember this moment.

 

[Run the Jewels]

It's encouraging that he is still growing, and that he is a relative of Bertuzzi. Would lead you to believe that he could end up with a power forward's body one day.

Supposedly he's grown another one and a half inches according to the write-up on RWC. I am OK with the pick, don't love it but also am not going to get worked up about drafting him.

We all say we want guys who play a tough game but then when we draft one it puzzles me people lose their ****.

 

[ricky0034]

You're not wrong by any stretch of the imagination. And I think the odds are you'll end up very correct.

It's just too early to say right now. You know the old argument goes, when folks criticize our scouting, "If the Wings knew Zetterberg was so good, why did they risk him in the later rounds?" And that's a fair point. There obviously was some luck in the Datsyuk and Zetterberg picks, because if they knew you'd have to assume they'd snag them in the 2nd round, 3rd at the latest...

So maybe they feel they know something here. But again, just to reiterate, the odds are heavily in favor in 10 years we barely remember this moment.

that's one nice thing about the Wings always drafting late,the busts don't sting so much years in the future when you look back

I mean....how many people even care about McCollum anymore really?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

that's one nice thing about the Wings always drafting late,the busts don't sting so much years in the future when you look back

I mean....how many people even care about McCollum anymore really?

We would care a heck of a lot more if Mrazek hadn't come along.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I mean....how many people even care about McCollum anymore really?

Cory Schneider just went to NJ for the #9 overall pick. If we had Markstrom rather than McCollum we could have traded him for a really good draft pick. So yeah, missing out on a long-term NHL player by drafting a guy who appears certain to be a bust does kinda suck.

 

[Frk It]

Supposedly he's grown another one and a half inches according to the write-up on RWC. I am OK with the pick, don't love it but also am not going to get worked up about drafting him.

We all say we want guys who play a tough game but then when we draft one it puzzles me people lose their ****.

We have gotten tougher by getting Mckee in the 5th, Callahan in the 6th, Nedomlel in the 6th. Taking a guy in that mold in the 2nd isn't a good way of maximizing value.

I don't mind drafting Bertuzzi, just have an issue where he was taken.

 

[Run the Jewels]

We have gotten tougher by getting Mckee in the 5th, Callahan in the 6th, Nedomlel in the 6th. Taking a guy in that mold in the 2nd isn't a good way of maximizing value.

I don't mind drafting Bertuzzi, just have an issue where he was taken.

Only one of those guys is a forward who can forecheck and he's no lock to make the NHL. I'm not going to get in a long, protracted argument about the pick. But if he's a legit 6'2" and can play a game similar to Andrew Shaw well then I'm certainly interested in watching him develop.

 

[Frk It]

Only one of those guys is a forward who can forecheck and he's no lock to make the NHL. I'm not going to get in a long, protracted argument about the pick. But if he's a legit 6'2" and can play a game similar to Andrew Shaw well then I'm certainly interested in watching him develop.

I don't want to fight, I have stated my peace. I think Babcock probably had a heavy influence on this pick since every time he talks about playing the Hawks he mentions "Shaw's line" and how it is a mismatch against us. I think he really likes the guy and wanted Holland to find a guy who is similar.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

We should probably step back a bit about note that McDonell is a very good scout and knew exactly what he was doing with the Bertuzzi pick. The question shouldn't be "why did they pick him there?" but really "what do the Wings see that I don't?"

 

[Run the Jewels]

The Duffer has an article from back in 2011 where Guelph's GM compares him to Steve Ott:

The younger Bertuzzi, 16, made the grade by playing his brand of hockey, which should be familiar to Spitfires fans. “He’s a high-intensity, Steve Ott type of player,†Kelly said. “An Energizer Bunny. A lot different than Todd.â€

While Todd can intimidate with his size, that’s not the case for Tyler, who makes his mark by outworking the opposition, and who carved out a place in Guelph by sticking to what he does best between the boards.

“I felt like I really played my game, which is grinding down low,†Tyler said. “I just stuck with my game. I didn’t try to score goals, because that’s not what I do. I take the body and I try to work it down low. I hoped it would pay off, and it did.€

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We should probably step back a bit about note that McDonell is a very good scout and knew exactly what he was doing with the Bertuzzi pick. The question shouldn't be "why did they pick him there?" but really "what do the Wings see that I don't?"

They answered this already, maybe it wasn't to your satisfaction but they did.

“He brings that element, and we felt like we wanted to add a player like that into our mix of prospects,†said Red Wings scout Jeff Finley. “A lot of times what happens is you like those guys, but they go a lot earlier than you were planning to take them. We just thought, instead of taking a chance that he’s not there in the third round, we had an extra pick in the second, and we didn’t mind him there where we took him.â€

“He’s got something you can’t teach in terms of his fearless approach to the game and he plays bigger than he is,†said Ryan Martin, the Red Wings assistant general manager of hockey administration. “He’s an energy guy who is willing to fight and plays that abrasive style.â€

http://www.redwingscentral.com/2013/07/01/4073/bertuzzis-fearless-approach-a-bonus/

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

They answered this already, maybe it wasn't to your satisfaction but they did.

No, it was completely to my satisfaction. I'm just pointing that out to others who claim he has no upside and thus there was no reason to make the pick. The point is that the Wings' scouts saw serious value in him, which is exactly what those quotes illustrate.

 

[SportsballChic]

"Meh, he's a floater. He needs a lot more heart, like Danny Cleary! Dat boy is realgud. I like our team! Wait, where are you going?" - too soon?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

It's pretty dumb to defend the pick on the basis that professional scouts made it because every single pick in every draft is pretty much made based on information provided by professional scouts. Why even bother discussing the draft, if we can just say "clearly, all these guys making these picks know more about hockey than us so these picks must be good". Extrapolate that to all the other subjects, free agency, trades, lines, special teams units, goaltending, contract extensions and what else and you can shut down the forum. "Professionals have made this decision, how dare you question it! If you were so clever, you'd have their jobs!"

People making that argumnt should delete their accounts for consistency's stake.

 

[ricky0034]

It's pretty dumb to defend the pick on the basis that professional scouts made it because every single pick in every draft is pretty much made based on information provided by professional scouts. Why even bother discussing the draft, if we can just say "clearly, all these guys making these picks know more about hockey than us so these picks must be good". Extrapolate that to all the other subjects, free agency, trades, lines, special teams units, goaltending, contract extensions and what else and you can shut down the forum. "Professionals have made this decision, how dare you question it! If you were so clever, you'd have their jobs!"

People making that argumnt should delete their accounts for consistency's stake.

plus one of the reasons a lot of us hate this pick is because most lists had him really low if they were even long enough to have him at all

many of those lists are composed by scouts

and it's not even like he plays in some low european league where he hasn't been seen that much,this guy plays in the ****ing OHL

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

plus one of the reasons a lot of us hate this pick is because most lists had him really low if they were even long enough to have him at all

many of those lists are composed by scouts

and it's not even like he plays in some low european league where he hasn't been seen that much,this guy plays in the ****ing OHL

If they feel that this was their guy then it's better to take him here then risk losing him later. They've come out & said that this was the case, they weren't sure if he'd last to their 3rd round pick, it seems that they made the right choice.

Sometimes scouts over analyze a player or they see him on a couple of bad days, they may even go into a group think mode. A player may also be playing hurt or just not be in a situation where they can succeed. It's up to the drafting teams to try & find the players that will be the best in 6-7 years down the road. The Wings have been burned in the past by not taking players & waiting to get them later so I'm glad they went out and got their guy.

To get a guy that some scouts/OHL GMs feel may become a Shaw or an Ott that's a good pick. He does fill a need and this is a different kind of boom or bust pick but this type of player can be worth as much as an Athanasiou or any other middle six prospect. I mean there's a good chance Shaw would go in the 2nd round if their was a 2011 re-draft so to get a guy that projects like him isn't the worst thing ever.

 

[FissionFire]

This pick has already paid off IMO. We drafted a pest and already he's infuriated half of a fanbase without even putting on a jersey.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

It's pretty dumb to defend the pick on the basis that professional scouts made it because every single pick in every draft is pretty much made based on information provided by professional scouts. Why even bother discussing the draft, if we can just say "clearly, all these guys making these picks know more about hockey than us so these picks must be good". Extrapolate that to all the other subjects, free agency, trades, lines, special teams units, goaltending, contract extensions and what else and you can shut down the forum. "Professionals have made this decision, how dare you question it! If you were so clever, you'd have their jobs!"

People making that argumnt should delete their accounts for consistency's stake.

This is pretty hyperbolic.

My point was that there are compelling reasons to examine the pick beyond the level of "was ranked low, so this guy must suck." This might be a stretch, but I propose that we watch the guy play ourselves and draw stronger, more thorough conclusions. We might find that we actually agree with McDonell and the Wings.