SportsballChic
Registered User
I think you just destroyed this thread. Amazing work good sir; as one of the infuriated parties I couldn't help but laugh.
Kuddos
Prospect Info: Tyler Bertuzzi
- Thread starter joe89
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I think you just destroyed this thread. Amazing work good sir; as one of the infuriated parties I couldn't help but laugh.
Kuddos
InjuredChoker
Registered User
From here and here
On picks between 41-80, only 15% make it to NHL regular level. And only few percent become first liners.
10 yar span from 96-05. And this kid was late second rounder.
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1458701
Ofc, the last analysis is done little early as some players from 08-09 drafts can/will make it so those numbers are going to look a bit better.
So the chances are fairly slim already around this area. Yeah, I know, 'deep draft'. We'll see in five, seven years.
If he becomes Andrew Shaw +, I consider this pick successful.
Ofc, one might want a pick there with little more upside but Wings did went kind of boom and bust with many other picks. I haven't seen this kid play much, basically none where I have focused just on him so don't know that the Wings were looking on him except what they said on interviews. But clearly they were high on him. We don't have many players like this, heck NHL doesn't have many players like this. You don't get them at UFA, without big overpayment if at all. So it's better to draft them, or you may not get them at all and you get them much cheaper. But they have to pan out ofc.
That's why I'm ok with this bc he is kind of unique player and could see why he was 'BPA'. If he was another smallish but skilled winger who we have ton or similar D that we have ton, I wouldn't be as ok with it assuming those players would have been 'reaches' as well.
They also may have felt that Nymark Halen has to be taken with that third rounder so they went with Bert on this pick. Though in that case they could have traded down.
But they may have felt that he would have gone pretty soon. Teams have wildly different draft rankings. I posted Canucks 2010 draft board a while back here. They had Mrazek, Pulks higher were we took them, much higher. I think Järnkrok too. They also had Marchenko there, who Wings took with 7th in 2011.
Would I have picked this kid there? No way. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do. He does have some intriguing qualities, based on what I've read.
I am a little late, since this is the first time I could get to a computer since the draft but here it goes.
I am a big Storm fan and have seen pretty much every home game (plus a few road games that were close drives).
The "He makes Andrew Shaw look like a Lady Byng winner" is probably correct. The Kid is a super pest. Plus he will do anything to win, anything to take others off there game. Good forecheck, loves to get into the post-whistle scrums. Will sometimes go over the line, as with most pests. So he could very easily make a 4th line role.
His offense, isn't great, but he's developing. Got better as the year went on, but work in progress. I am curious to see what he can do in the offensive zone when he puts some extra weight on. His 16 year old season he was 5'9", 150lbs. He's gotten considerably bigger since then, 6'1", 178lbs so he is probably still getting used to playing with a bigger frame. Also of note, he received little to no PP time. That might change this season, and he could become a net front guy, because Scott Walker loves the kid.
P.S. Joe McDonnell was at plenty of Guelph Storm games this season so I can assure he has seen plenty of Bertuzzi as well, something he must like.
I am a big Storm fan and have seen pretty much every home game (plus a few road games that were close drives).
The "He makes Andrew Shaw look like a Lady Byng winner" is probably correct. The Kid is a super pest. Plus he will do anything to win, anything to take others off there game. Good forecheck, loves to get into the post-whistle scrums. Will sometimes go over the line, as with most pests. So he could very easily make a 4th line role.
His offense, isn't great, but he's developing. Got better as the year went on, but work in progress. I am curious to see what he can do in the offensive zone when he puts some extra weight on. His 16 year old season he was 5'9", 150lbs. He's gotten considerably bigger since then, 6'1", 178lbs so he is probably still getting used to playing with a bigger frame. Also of note, he received little to no PP time. That might change this season, and he could become a net front guy, because Scott Walker loves the kid.
P.S. Joe McDonnell was at plenty of Guelph Storm games this season so I can assure he has seen plenty of Bertuzzi as well, something he must like.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
Cool, thanks.
Just bc I'm interested, where would you have drafted him/where did you project he would go?
Brock
Registered User
What he said.
I had Bertuzzi rated as the 32nd rated OHL player for the draft.
http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2013/05/my-final-top-50-ohl-players-for-2013_7198.html
I think taking him as early as the Wings did was a bit of a reach, but that doesn't mean he can't develop into a solid player. In particular, I'm very curious to see how his offensive game develops over the next couple of years. I don't think he's ever going to be the type of player who excels in the skill department (a big guy who can carry the puck), but he could be a solid energy player who can net garbage goals and learn to play in front of the net.
opivy
Sauce King
I wonder which team they thought was going to steal their pick. I don't see him not making it at least until the 3rd round.
Probably Dallas. Tyler Bertuzzi, it's safe to assume this is the most controversial draft pick in recent team history.
I don't have a problem personally with drafting a player like him my issue is when they picked him up (if it where me and I was worried when he might get picked up by say dallas ok then draft him in the 4th but wtf on drafting him in the second).
A lot of people projected him to be a late pick, I was thinking before the draft that I could easily have seen a team fall in love with what he does bring and select him late 4th-early 5th.
Henkka
Registered User
The funny truth would be, that no one would complain, if the draft would have been like this:
Code:
20 1 Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL]
48 2 Zach Nastasiuk R Owen Sound Attack [OHL]
58 2 Mattias Janmark-Nylen C AIK [SEL]
79 3 David Pope L West Kelowna Warriors [BCHL]
109 4 Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL]
139 5 Mitch Wheaton D Kelowna Rockets [WHL]
169 6 Marc McNulty D Prince George Cougars [WHL]
199 7 Hampus Melen R Tingsryd Jrs. (Sweden)SportsballChic
Registered User
The funny truth would be, that no one would complain, if the draft would have been like this:
Code:20 1 Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL] 48 2 Zach Nastasiuk R Owen Sound Attack [OHL] 58 2 Mattias Janmark-Nylen C AIK [SEL] 79 3 David Pope L West Kelowna Warriors [BCHL] 109 4 Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL] 139 5 Mitch Wheaton D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 169 6 Marc McNulty D Prince George Cougars [WHL] 199 7 Hampus Melen R Tingsryd Jrs. (Sweden)
You got me, I just said this EXACT same thing to my BF.
11-20: kindl
1st line: 0
NHL regular: 0
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 0
21-40:
fischer, kronwall, kopecky, wallin
1st line: 1
NHL regular: 1
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 1
41-80:
miller, butsayev, sykora, barnes, valtonen, grigorenko, hudler, fleischmann, howard, abdelkader, lofberg
1st line: 0
NHL regular: 3
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 7
81-140:
forsander, podolka, laing, wikstrom, mccracken, hobday, tolsa, liv, semenov, seluyanov, van leusen, macintyre, blatak, filppula, berggren, quincey, franzen, mcgrath, ritola, helm, ryno
1st line: 1
NHL regular: 3
depth/utility: 0
non-NHL: 17
141+
nilsson, jacques, beardsmore, stahl, afanasiev, young, laceby, willejto, willers, steen, deleeuw, datsyuk, petrasek, pietilainen, maximenko, mcdonell, zetterberg, borodkin, davis, backer, ballantyne, svensson, jackson, bumagin, jamtin, pannoni, bykov, senez, koopmans, kuddihy, meech, beaulieu, soderstrom, ericsson, oulahen, sundin, blom, kollar, kutny, johansson, kolosov, haskins, axelsson, covington, stolyarov, backstrom, may, mielonen, stamler
1st line: 2
NHL regular: 1
depth/utility: 0
non-NHL: 45
not always easy to classify players, since presence of other leagues creates competition. some of these players might be able to be classified as depth/utility players if they were not able to get better jobs in other leagues.
i wonder if results would be significantly different in a different timespan. drafts of mid/late '90s tended to suck. in that period, DRW also tended to draft badly and to trade draft picks for NHLers.
pick of bertuzzi is not my main complaint. this draft feels like the opposite of how DRW became and stayed successful. and combined with a lot of the comments about how they want to focus on size and babcock's comments about how big players are, it sorta gives the impression that management as a whole, not just scouts, is starting to value size over skill, which is bad, imo.
1st line: 0
NHL regular: 0
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 0
21-40:
fischer, kronwall, kopecky, wallin
1st line: 1
NHL regular: 1
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 1
41-80:
miller, butsayev, sykora, barnes, valtonen, grigorenko, hudler, fleischmann, howard, abdelkader, lofberg
1st line: 0
NHL regular: 3
depth/utility: 1
non-NHL: 7
81-140:
forsander, podolka, laing, wikstrom, mccracken, hobday, tolsa, liv, semenov, seluyanov, van leusen, macintyre, blatak, filppula, berggren, quincey, franzen, mcgrath, ritola, helm, ryno
1st line: 1
NHL regular: 3
depth/utility: 0
non-NHL: 17
141+
nilsson, jacques, beardsmore, stahl, afanasiev, young, laceby, willejto, willers, steen, deleeuw, datsyuk, petrasek, pietilainen, maximenko, mcdonell, zetterberg, borodkin, davis, backer, ballantyne, svensson, jackson, bumagin, jamtin, pannoni, bykov, senez, koopmans, kuddihy, meech, beaulieu, soderstrom, ericsson, oulahen, sundin, blom, kollar, kutny, johansson, kolosov, haskins, axelsson, covington, stolyarov, backstrom, may, mielonen, stamler
1st line: 2
NHL regular: 1
depth/utility: 0
non-NHL: 45
not always easy to classify players, since presence of other leagues creates competition. some of these players might be able to be classified as depth/utility players if they were not able to get better jobs in other leagues.
i wonder if results would be significantly different in a different timespan. drafts of mid/late '90s tended to suck. in that period, DRW also tended to draft badly and to trade draft picks for NHLers.
good point. you could also switch bertuzzi and wheaton.The funny truth would be, that no one would complain, if the draft would have been like this:
Code:20 1 Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL] 48 2 Zach Nastasiuk R Owen Sound Attack [OHL] 58 2 Mattias Janmark-Nylen C AIK [SEL] 79 3 David Pope L West Kelowna Warriors [BCHL] 109 4 Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL] 139 5 Mitch Wheaton D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 169 6 Marc McNulty D Prince George Cougars [WHL] 199 7 Hampus Melen R Tingsryd Jrs. (Sweden)
pick of bertuzzi is not my main complaint. this draft feels like the opposite of how DRW became and stayed successful. and combined with a lot of the comments about how they want to focus on size and babcock's comments about how big players are, it sorta gives the impression that management as a whole, not just scouts, is starting to value size over skill, which is bad, imo.
Last edited:
The funny truth would be, that no one would complain, if the draft would have been like this:
Code:20 1 Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL] 48 2 Zach Nastasiuk R Owen Sound Attack [OHL] 58 2 Mattias Janmark-Nylen C AIK [SEL] 79 3 David Pope L West Kelowna Warriors [BCHL] 109 4 Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL] 139 5 Mitch Wheaton D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 169 6 Marc McNulty D Prince George Cougars [WHL] 199 7 Hampus Melen R Tingsryd Jrs. (Sweden)
Might be right there.
opivy
Sauce King
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
- 20,313
- 174
The funny truth would be, that no one would complain, if the draft would have been like this:
Code:20 1 Anthony Mantha R Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL] 48 2 Zach Nastasiuk R Owen Sound Attack [OHL] 58 2 Mattias Janmark-Nylen C AIK [SEL] 79 3 David Pope L West Kelowna Warriors [BCHL] 109 4 Tyler Bertuzzi L Guelph Storm [OHL] 139 5 Mitch Wheaton D Kelowna Rockets [WHL] 169 6 Marc McNulty D Prince George Cougars [WHL] 199 7 Hampus Melen R Tingsryd Jrs. (Sweden)
Or what about:
#18 Mantha
#48 Nastasiuk
#79 Janmark
#109 Pope
#139 Wheaton
#169 McNulty
#199 Melén
San Jose just felt like being nice
SportsballChic
Registered User
Dallas. The Stars would have picked before we picked again and we know that Nill knows a thing or two about our targets; maybe not the whole story, but he'd definitely be aware of a guy we'd been watching for as long as we say we watched Tyler.
Henkka
Registered User
Or what about:
#18 Mantha
#48 Nastasiuk
#79 Janmark
#109 Pope
#139 Wheaton
#169 McNulty
#199 Melén
San Jose just felt like being nice
Yeah, good point.
Marky9er
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2008
- 7,476
- 729
Toronto, Buffalo, and Chicago all had him work out in each of those cities according to a Sudbury newspaper.
I hope people can separate the player and the pick, this is a prospect I was really hoping we would get. I don't know if some people realize he had a concussion impact his season, and returned to be a near point per game player through February. The situation reminds me in ways of the Tvrdon pick, since their was a real limited window for teams to see this player. I totally understand being upset at where they picked him, but I'm excited that we didn't miss out on him regarldess.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Um.... I see two top 4 D-man and a guy that plays in the top 6 down in Florida. Fischer obviously had the heart issue, but that is a pretty exceptional draft. Kopecky while not perfect is playing in the top 6. Kronwall was on our top pairing and Fischer was already starting to take top 4 minutes and looked like a potential top pairing guy before the incident.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
- 14,771
- 8,326
No but a day after the draft where none of you had seen him play and definitely didnt pay a lot of attention to him shouldnt be calling it a wasted pick.
Maybe say you dont like it but we'll see or say I'm surprised they took him there. But the people saying its a wasted pick and he wont be an NHL player should be the ones shutting down their accounts. No one on here has come close to watching enough games of this kid to say what his deal is. One guy from Guelph said he really likes him, that GSP hockey guy had him just outside the top 50, Brock said he was a bit of a reach but liked him and the wings liked him enough to take him there. A round too early? Sure, maybe and even the wings said as much but with that extra pick they added a guy they wanted in the pipe line and think can be an NHLer
which draft are you saying is exceptional?
i don't think kopecky is a core player, and playing a top 6 role on a terrible team is not particularly important, imo.
abdelkader played on 1st line this season for a playoff team and is younger than kopecky, but i wouldn't say he's a core player, either.
i think fischer has become overrated since his career ended. i would say regular NHLer is a good classification.
It was actually only a real minor concussion. What actually kept him out longer was a neck injury. They both happened on the same play, but I heard Bertuzzi passed concussion testing early, but the neck injury kept him out.
February was, by far, his best month. I think after that he tired from being out so long his conditioning was up to par. His playoffs you could tell this as well.
Although I wasn't a fan of his major goonery in the playoffs.
Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
- 8,908
- 2,267
Fischer was starting to get top minutes when he got injured and was looking better than Kronner. Fischer was the one they chose to play with Lidas too at times, I dont remember if Kronner got the same mentorship time with him.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
First of all, of course the kid could surprise everyone and be a star. That's not what it's about, but you know you aren't looking at the best of picks if the *proponents* concede it was too early while also admitting that they didn't do so because of any specific knowledge that someone else was going to but rather a vague fear that someone else might like the kid too and hey they had an extra pick so why not use it on a kid who otherwise might have gone in the 4th or 5th round.
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