Twenty games until the trade deadline.

[HeroNtF]

franson for brett ritchie, 3rd
phanuef for nick ritchie, cap dump

kessel, gardiner, gauthier for strome, rienhart

we would be bad enough to draft dylan strome.
sign matt rupert.

we would have all the the bros to bro out with.

 

[Slot]

Once again...
supply and demand. If he hits the open market, he'll be a 5.5-6 million dollar asset to whomever he signs with. He's also led the Leafs D in points for the last 2 years, has he not?

You dont think Philly or Boston will give him 5.5 a year? Keep dreaming...

Let's let another team make the mistake of paying this guy 6+m for years. Haven't we learned enough about signing mediocre players to retirement contracts?

 

[Slot]

D men are generally late to the party in terms of development, especially big guys, who generally take longer to put it all together. You're basing your evaluation on his work with the league's worst defensive club. Im sure astute GMs and scouts have an entirely different set of criteria.

Franson isnt Phaneuf, and he isn't Lupul and he isn't Clarkson. At least two of those three could be forgotten easily enough. Franson leaves a huge hole. Is Gardiner going to fill it? Robidas?
Polak?

Show me the contingency plan; who covers the loss of your top scoring D and top PP asset...

Your argument would be more compelling if franson was not a key part of one of the worst defensive teams in history.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Your argument would be more compelling if franson was not a key part of one of the worst defensive teams in history.

His argument: Franson looks bad because the Leafs defense is bad.

The truth: Leafs defense is bad because the individual defenders are bad.

 

[Slot]

His argument: Franson looks bad because the Leafs defense is bad.

The truth: Leafs defense is bad because the individual defenders are bad.

That was my argument, yes.

 

[Durkin67]

Your argument would be more compelling if franson was not a key part of one of the worst defensive teams in history.

Your rebuttal would carry more weight if it was rooted in impartial observation as opposed to obvious bias.

If we adhered to that thin thread of logic you are trying to spin, despite his personal performance, Phil Kessel would also have no trade value by virtue of the fact that the Leafs have also underachieved.

 

[King85Kong]

Franson makes boneheaded plays in the defensive end far to often. Good in the offensive end, but wow in the d end. My hope at the TDL is for Franson, Santorelli, Winnik, Bozak and Reimer to all be traded.

 

[Durkin67]

Let's let another team make the mistake of paying this guy 6+m for years. Haven't we learned enough about signing mediocre players to retirement contracts?

Again, show me the contingency plan. Convince me of how they will replace him internally.

 

[Durkin67]

Franson makes boneheaded plays in the defensive end far to often. Good in the offensive end, but wow in the d end. My hope at the TDL is for Franson, Santorelli, Winnik, Bozak and Reimer to all be traded.

OF course it is. You want to tank.

 

[Trapper]

Again, show me the contingency plan. Convince me of how they will replace him internally.

You don't replace him internally.
I don't know what he's asking for but obviously if they are shopping him it is either to much/to long or both.
Never give a non core player more than 4-5 years.

 

[King85Kong]

OF course it is. You want to tank.

Who doesn`t at this point? Would be horrible for the Leafs to finish in the 9-10 spots. If they did I guess the Leafs could sell the fans on how close they were, just a move or two and we are right in it. Heard that before. Classic Cycle of Abuse.

 

[Durkin67]

You don't replace him internally.
I don't know what he's asking for but obviously if they are shopping him it is either to much/to long or both.
Never give a non core player more than 4-5 years.

Well if you can't replace him internally, which top 4 D capable of playing top PP and leading the D in scoring is going to become available for less than what Franson will fetch on the open market?

 

[Fogelhund]

Franson makes boneheaded plays in the defensive end far to often. Good in the offensive end, but wow in the d end. My hope at the TDL is for Franson, Santorelli, Winnik, Bozak and Reimer to all be traded.

I'm not sure about good in the offensive end... good when he shoots, but how often has he made a bad pinch, or coughed up the puck at the opponents blue line, to see an odd man rush go the other way, with him watching at half as the other team scores?

 

[Durkin67]

Who doesn`t at this point? Would be horrible for the Leafs to finish in the 9-10 spots. If they did I guess the Leafs could sell the fans on how close they were, just a move or two and we are right in it. Heard that before. Classic Cycle of Abuse.

Then go all in and tank properly. Are the 2nd rounders you get in return for those pieces really going to make a difference during Kessel's tenure in Toronto? Not likely.

There is probably some logic to waiting until the off season to unload the big guns like Kessel and Phaneuf, so if flipping your supporting cast is simply phase one of this plan to bottom out and load up at the draft, I wouldn't struggle with it, but that's because Ive resigned myself to being a passive observer as opposed to investing emotionally in this gong show.

It's really down to the offer. If ARZ offered Max Domi and a first for Kessel, I'd pray to the heavens Shanny (no, I didn't mean Nonis) says yes.

I'd love to see the Leafs end up with a couple firsts or even some great young prospects in exchange for the old guard (Phaneuf, Lupul Kessel) who aren't getting it done.

Im kinda half convinced by your argument, TBH, as moving out those pieces might make room for some of the younger guys in the A to get a taste, but would you rather they fail with the Leafs in order to get a sniff of the bigs, or lead the charge in the A and possibly compete for a Calder?

 

[Trapper]

Well if you can't replace him internally, which top 4 D capable of playing top PP and leading the D in scoring is going to become available for less than what Franson will fetch on the open market?

Nobody. We can't afford him and that's reality. You think Boston wanted to lose Boychuk/Iginla?
We have most of our money tied up in our core with Bernier/Kadri to sign. So looks like the (same) core better get it done without Franson.

 

[King85Kong]

I'm not sure about good in the offensive end... good when he shoots, but how often has he made a bad pinch, or coughed up the puck at the opponents blue line, to see an odd man rush go the other way, with him watching at half as the other team scores?

Fair to say. I incorporated that into defensive play.

 

[Durkin67]

Nobody. We can't afford him and that's reality. You think Boston wanted to lose Boychuk/Iginla?
We have most of our money tied up in our core with Bernier/Kadri to sign. So looks like the (same) core better get it done without Franson.

Is it your argument that there is no other player you'd rather lose than Franson?

Personally, if I had to close between Phaneuf or Franson, Im taking Franson all day long. Phaneuf can get you a cheaper roster player and a high (isn) pick. That's worth more to me than the 2nd rounder you're getting for Franny.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Is it your argument that there is no other player you'd rather lose than Franson?

Personally, if I had to close between Phaneuf or Franson, Im taking Franson all day long. Phaneuf can get you a cheaper roster player and a pick. That's worth more to me than the 2nd rounder you're getting for Franny.

as someone who likes Franny - why are you so "keep franny?" especially knowing he's a hard sign and will demand a lot of money. it makes no financial sense. (and I don't want Phaneuf either, as you know).

 

[King85Kong]

Then go all in and tank properly. Are the 2nd rounders you get in return for those pieces really going to make a difference during Kessel's tenure in Toronto? Not likely.

There is probably some logic to waiting until the off season to unload the big guns like Kessel and Phaneuf, so if flipping your supporting cast is simply phase one of this plan to bottom out and load up at the draft, I wouldn't struggle with it, but that's because Ive resigned myself to being a passive observer as opposed to investing emotionally in this gong show.

It's really down to the offer. If ARZ offered Max Domi and a first for Kessel, I'd pray to the heavens Shanny (no, I didn't mean Nonis) says yes.

I'd love to see the Leafs end up with a couple firsts or even some great young prospects in exchange for the old guard (Phaneuf, Lupul Kessel) who aren't getting it done.

Im kinda half convinced by your argument, TBH, as moving out those pieces might make room for some of the younger guys in the A to get a taste, but would you rather they fail with the Leafs in order to get a sniff of the bigs, or lead the charge in the A and possibly compete for a Calder?

Don`t believe they will be traded at TDL due to contract size. Address those in the off-season, when we can ***** our team at that point.
(lol at ****, meant the word for look over.

 

[Slot]

Your rebuttal would carry more weight if it was rooted in impartial observation as opposed to obvious bias.

If we adhered to that thin thread of logic you are trying to spin, despite his personal performance, Phil Kessel would also have no trade value by virtue of the fact that the Leafs have also underachieved.

Without the leafs goggles franson is a serviceable 4-5 d with offensive upside and size. Limited by foot speed and a seeming disdain for getting into the dirty areas and taking hits to make defensive plays. He's also prone to some terrible decision making regarding rushing the puck as the last d back causing turnovers that as often as not end up with a very good scoring chance go for the opposition.

I say again let someone else pay 5+ for this guy long term because he's not worth that kind of dough.

 

[Trapper]

Is it your argument that there is no other player you'd rather lose than Franson?

Personally, if I had to close between Phaneuf or Franson, Im taking Franson all day long. Phaneuf can get you a cheaper roster player and a high (isn) pick. That's worth more to me than the 2nd rounder you're getting for Franny.

It's not my argument because I'm not in charge. Obviously if the Leafs are shopping him they've made their decision. I have no idea which player/players management would rather lose.
Your asking the wrong person because I'd be done with this core if it were up to me.

 

[Durkin67]

as someone who likes Franny - why are you so "keep franny?" especially knowing he's a hard sign and will demand a lot of money. it makes no financial sense. (and I don't want Phaneuf either, as you know).

Im interested in knowing how you replace him. Because I dont think its so easily done. And because he fills a pretty important niche, Im inclined to make other assets available (if Franny can be had for 5.5 ish) before unloading him for a 2nd round pick.

 

[Durkin67]

It's not my argument because I'm not in charge. Obviously if the Leafs are shopping him they've made their decision. I have no idea which player/players management would rather lose.
Your asking the wrong person because I'd be done with this core if it were up to me.

i am done with this core which is why im inclined to move away from the likes of phaneuf and allocate that cap space into a player I think can be intrinsic to the rebuild.

 

[-DeMo-]

Once again...
supply and demand. If he hits the open market, he'll be a 5.5-6 million dollar asset to whomever he signs with. He's also led the Leafs D in points for the last 2 years, has he not?

You dont think Philly or Boston will give him 5.5 a year? Keep dreaming...

I never said he couldn't get that on the open Market I actually believe the opposite that some team will give him 5.5-6 mill on a 6-7 year deal, and personally I believe that team will be making a mistake. the fact that he's lead the leafs in scoring isn't relevant to keeping him, if were rebuilding by the time were good Rielly will be in his prime and able to bring the offense needed from the back end.

 

[cupcrazyman]

why would Shanny let Nonis make any more moves if he was going to fire him this summer ?

Oh i forgot ,this is the Leafs !