Twenty games until the trade deadline.

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Faltorvo

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Feb 18, 2008
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20 games till the TD???

well then

would someone with the skills be so kind to post a short vid/giff,,,,,,,, what ever

of a nuke going off, please.:)
 

The Winter Soldier

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Apr 4, 2011
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Kessel reminds me of Jarri Kurri. Great players but Edmonton never expected Kurri to lead them. I don't think he could have led a team the way people expect Kessel to lead Leafs. Kessel is very good at what he does. Stop expecting him to be what he isn't

Laugh at Phil all you want. He's always in top 5 scoring in the league.

I know what you mean, but Kurri was a very good defensive hockey player too. Something Phil is the opposite of. He also scored over 100 points(not looking it up, going off my memory) after Gretzky was traded.

He was a leader of that team, maybe not Messier impact. But that team still won a cup without 99. And he was a major reason why.
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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I know what you mean, but Kurri was a very good defensive hockey player too. Something Phil is the opposite of. He also scored over 100 points(not looking it up, going off my memory) after Gretzky was traded.

He was a leader of that team, maybe not Messier impact. But that team still won a cup without 99. And he was a major reason why.

He was also surrounded by players who were slightly, marginally better than the players Kessel is surrounded with.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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I am just hoping the team uses this deadline and draft as jumping point. Shanahan would be wise to break everything up right away and start implementation of a ten year plan to building for a cup.

Five year plans are fools gold I believe.

Build it up and take one every ten years would be a very successful plan. Maybe you get lucky some phases and get two cups. That's highly unlikely though. Build it up break it down and so on every phase.

Five year plans are not only overzealous but not very attainable. We have seen nothing of the sort or have ever been asked to accept anything of the sort as fans. I think it would welcomed with open arms.

It would be a breath of fresh air to what we have been subjected to recently. It would bring respectability back with a common understanding by fans and management.

I would be willing to start that right now. Longevity would be just the common understanding. All we have now is troubled times every year.

When we would all know times were going to be on the downswing, it wouldn't be anywhere even close to chaotic.
 

Durkin67

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I believe the Leafs have 10 games left in January and 10 more in February. These are the last 20 games before the trade deadline. My question is: what changes do you want to see in this team during this stretch? For example in the first 5 games I simply want to see effort from every player on the team on every shift. This would be a start. I'd also like to see accountability during this stretch, i.e. ice time apportioned relative to effort and performance as to expectations of the coaching staff. Someone...some time has to start eradicating the dreaded Blue/White disease.Over the next 5 games I'd like to see some lines starting to click and an acceptance of, and adherence to, a new system (assuming there is one). Between games 11 and 15 I would think some moves would be attempted (not easy in a salary cap world I know) based on what was already known about certain players combined with this 10 game "trial" just completed. If nothing fits trade-wise during this 5 game stretch and then during the next 5 leading up to the trade deadline, then the changes will obviously happen at the draft and free agent deadline. I'm just curious what people are expecting,hoping to see, over this next 20 game stretch or, in fact, that 20 games is too small a window and you couldn't care less.

Time to unload. This team in its present incarnation simply doesn't have the goods to do more than tease us into thinking we are a David Bolland away from a second round playoff appearance.

Let's give the new coach (and GM) a blank canvas and enough job security to effect change without defaulting to panic mode in order to justify a paycheque.

It aint the coach, it aint the players per se; it is the combination of these compounded by the impatience of a petulant, inept ownership group which has sullied the once -respected brand that almost single handedly keeps the league afloat.

Phaneuf: Adios and godspeed.
Lupul: Try not to break anything on your way to the airport.
Reimer: Go earn yourself some respect. You deserve a fresh start.
Kadri: Them that works eats, son. You aint a 6 million dollar man, dont listen to your agent. He needs to be packaged if he wants a single shekel over 4.5 M

Franson: I hope you're a Leaf next year. You've gone from an in and out 3rd pairing guy under Wilson to top pairing and you've led the D in goals more than once. Take 5.5M for 6 years and spend your prime years as a core member of this team. Great character guy from what I have seen in interviews.

Kessel: Can you stay hot long enough to led the offensive charge when this team is ready to make some noise? PS, those extra 15 pounds are gonna feel like 30 in a couple years, trust me.

JvR: Most complete player on the team. Get this man a legit 1C to bounce off of or liquidate him for something that will be a core piece of the future.


This is a patchwork quilt of a team strung together by fragments of three different managerial regimes. No rhyme nor reason to this collection of cast offs and complimentary pieces with questionable heart and character.

Strip it down to the bone.
 

Tak7

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^ Doesn't want to keep the 24 year old Kadri @ $4.5 million, but wants to keep the 27 year old Cody Franson @ close to $6 million?

Leafs fans, lol.
 

Durkin67

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^ Doesn't want to keep the 24 year old Kadri @ $4.5 million, but wants to keep the 27 year old Cody Franson @ close to $6 million?

Leafs fans, lol.

Find me another 6'5'' right hand shot to play top pairing and first PP and lead your D in goals and points every year and I'll chuckle right along with you.

P.S. I said Kadri at 4.5 a copy would be fine with me.
 

Wafflewhipper

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Jan 18, 2014
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Find me another 6'5'' right hand shot to play top pairing and first PP and lead your D in goals and points every year and I'll chuckle right along with you.

P.S. I said Kadri at 4.5 a copy would be fine with me.

Tearing it down needs patience and restraint. There is enough depth in the system and alot cheaper Ufa's available. Franson should be moved out. Kadri has never been afforded the quality minutes because bozak gets all his pp time.

Bozak being moved is a necessity right away to allow the youth movement to start next year. Franson is not worth 6 million at this point and is not a necessity at present or even two years from now.

Trade out this whole core that is not projected to be around in six years or five years.
 

-DeMo-

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Nov 12, 2006
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Find me another 6'5'' right hand shot to play top pairing and first PP and lead your D in goals and points every year and I'll chuckle right along with you.

P.S. I said Kadri at 4.5 a copy would be fine with me.

Franson has never finished an 82 game season playing anything better then a bottom pairing PP guy to date who puts up points, one good year in a contract year(which never happens :sarcasm:) and your willing to give him a retirement contract. currently his 2nd best season was a 48 game shorten year where he played on the bottom pairing with Mark Fraser. he's not a top pairing Dmen at this point. at best he's a top 4 guy. by no means is that a good contract for Franson.
 

Stats01

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Jul 12, 2009
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Find me another 6'5'' right hand shot to play top pairing and first PP and lead your D in goals and points every year and I'll chuckle right along with you.

P.S. I said Kadri at 4.5 a copy would be fine with me.

Just because Franson plays top pairing on this crappy team doesn't make him a top pairing D-man. He's a top 4 guy but let's get real here..Cody Franson is not a top pairing guy. And we don't want to sign another long term cap killing contract. If we sign Franson for 5-6 years at 6 mil...here's our list


Kessel (8 years- 8 mil per)
Phaneuf ( 7 years- 7 mil per)
Clarkson (5 years- 5.25 mil per)
Franson ( 5-6 years- 6 mil per)

That's 26.25 million in cap space just for 4 players! how are we supposed to improve? We can't just give in every single time we have a free agent. Plus we're rebuilding Franson doesn't fit into the plans.
 

Durkin67

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Just because Franson plays top pairing on this crappy team doesn't make him a top pairing D-man. He's a top 4 guy but let's get real here..Cody Franson is not a top pairing guy. And we don't want to sign another long term cap killing contract. If we sign Franson for 5-6 years at 6 mil...here's our list


Kessel (8 years- 8 mil per)
Phaneuf ( 7 years- 7 mil per)
Clarkson (5 years- 5.25 mil per)
Franson ( 5-6 years- 6 mil per)

That's 26.25 million in cap space just for 4 players! how are we supposed to improve? We can't just give in every single time we have a free agent. Plus we're rebuilding Franson doesn't fit into the plans.

Franson will earn 5.5-6 on the open market if not re-signed. That's based on the laws of supply and demand. The demand is much bigger than the supply for what he provides, thus rendering your entire crappy team argument invalid.

The second part of your argument assumes that none of Kessel, Phaneuf or Clarkson (Go ahead and add Lupul in there as well) could be moved as a means of clearing cap to sign Franson.

Q: would you prefer continuing with Phaneuf as your leader despite four years of getting nothing done, or would you like to see the focus shifted towards other assets?

If Phaneuf fetches you ROR thus making a piece like Kadri expendable, you have all kinds of cap room to lock Franson up long term, and likely be the better team for it.
 

Durkin67

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Franson has never finished an 82 game season playing anything better then a bottom pairing PP guy to date who puts up points, one good year in a contract year(which never happens :sarcasm:) and your willing to give him a retirement contract. currently his 2nd best season was a 48 game shorten year where he played on the bottom pairing with Mark Fraser. he's not a top pairing Dmen at this point. at best he's a top 4 guy. by no means is that a good contract for Franson.

Once again...
supply and demand. If he hits the open market, he'll be a 5.5-6 million dollar asset to whomever he signs with. He's also led the Leafs D in points for the last 2 years, has he not?

You dont think Philly or Boston will give him 5.5 a year? Keep dreaming...
 

Kingstonian84*

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Sep 23, 2012
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Once again...
supply and demand. If he hits the open market, he'll be a 5.5-6 million dollar asset to whomever he signs with. He's also led the Leafs D in points for the last 2 years, has he not?

You dont think Philly or Boston will give him 5.5 a year? Keep dreaming...

As much as I want Franson gone.... Yeah he commands easily 5.5', I could even see some team giving him North of 6m. Franson is a big bodied guy, he's a right handed blueliner (a rarity' he is actually decent positnally and has a booming shot... I mean if guys like orpik can make 5.5 so can he.
 

Hotel Mario

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Feb 4, 2013
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At the TD I don't expect that everybody will be sold off, but I DEMAND there to be moves that will better the team in the long-term.

The worst possible move to make is to stand pat if the team wins a few games (which will happen) believing the core leadership group can get the job done justifying they need the support of Lupul, Bozak, Franson, Winnik, and Santorelli to make the playoffs.

I don't see how management and ownership is so reluctant to change the core leadership group of the team. Sure there is more money to be made in the playoffs, but you have to have a team capable of doing it. This group of proven losers has embarrassed the fans, and entire organization with consistent piss poor effort, and crushing defeats and collapses. Instead the core was given another chance with decent bottom forward signings, a 3 year deal to a washed up Robidas, and retaining salary and 4th draft pick for Roman freaking Polak. None of the younger Marlies were given a fair shot, though it can be argued extra development time is beneficial. It really feels like a wasted season, the fans have every right to deserve better.

At what point does the core not get another chance, and instead of short sighted signings and trades, we use drafted and developed players (Leivo, Percy) to play meaningful minutes and continue to improve at the NHL level? Its not so much "TANK" as a change in direction to not be short sighted, and instead have a long term plan of the identity of the roster.
 

cup67

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May 8, 2010
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^ Doesn't want to keep the 24 year old Kadri @ $4.5 million, but wants to keep the 27 year old Cody Franson @ close to $6 million?

Leafs fans, lol.

we keep franson ,only if we trade phaneuf,bozak,gardiner,kessel,lupul.
start the shanahan rebuild:nod:
 

Kelly

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Nov 12, 2012
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Trade Franson, Santa, Winnik, Booth, Smith, Holzer any UFA we can get ANYTHING for. Probably won't get anything for Booth, Smith or Holzer but hell they should be trying.

Trade Kessel / Bozak / Phaneuf in the summer.
 

Tak7

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Nov 1, 2009
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Find me another 6'5'' right hand shot to play top pairing and first PP and lead your D in goals and points every year and I'll chuckle right along with you.

P.S. I said Kadri at 4.5 a copy would be fine with me.

Baffling, given the history of this team with handing out over-valued contracts, that fans want to do the same with Franson.

He's had one good stint of ~50 games, and people want him locked up long term lol?

Small sample size, or what?

Players at his age don't just magically turn into top pairing guys. Is it more likely that Franson has finally developed into a top player despite being a bottom 4 guy his entire career? Or is it more likely that he's elevated his play in a contract year?

This team has made so many contractual mistakes that it just can't afford to make another one with Franson. Let him go.

Also - it's about time this organization started loading up on under-valued deals; cheaper deals where guys are over-excelling based on what they are producing. Right now, they have too many over-valued, over-paid guys.

Letting Franson goes is part 1 of that transition.
 

Northern Dancer

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Baffling, given the history of this team with handing out over-valued contracts, that fans want to do the same with Franson.

He's had one good stint of ~50 games, and people want him locked up long term lol?

Small sample size, or what?

Players at his age don't just magically turn into top pairing guys. Is it more likely that Franson has finally developed into a top player despite being a bottom 4 guy his entire career? Or is it more likely that he's elevated his play in a contract year?

This team has made so many contractual mistakes that it just can't afford to make another one with Franson. Let him go.

Also - it's about time this organization started loading up on under-valued deals; cheaper deals where guys are over-excelling based on what they are producing. Right now, they have too many over-valued, over-paid guys.

Letting Franson goes is part 1 of that transition.


Unfortunately the Leafs have to compete with 29 other teams in the market. If the market for Franson as a UFA is a 5 year 25mm+ deal, the Leafs have no choice but to sign at that rate (if they chose to) or trade him at the TD.

Why don't you let Shanahan play his hand before getting so worked up? I might add most teams have had similar contract fiascos like the Leafs, they are not alone.
 

BlueForever

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Franson, Lupul and Reimer should be the first pieces dealt for anything resembling picks and young players.

Franson is definitely not a top pairing D, he only is here in Toronto because the other Dmen are crap or not ready.

You trade Franson in a heartbeat, and give minutes to Gardiner and Reilly to learn. They are our future not Franson. Franson gains us an opportunity to add to future. My guess is you can get a 1st rounder for this guy. In a deep draft believe me you can get a better part then Franson.
 

Trapper

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Nov 21, 2013
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Franson, Lupul and Reimer should be the first pieces dealt for anything resembling picks and young players.

Franson is definitely not a top pairing D, he only is here in Toronto because the other Dmen are crap or not ready.

You trade Franson in a heartbeat, and give minutes to Gardiner and Reilly to learn. They are our future not Franson. Franson gains us an opportunity to add to future. My guess is you can get a 1st rounder for this guy. In a deep draft believe me you can get a better part then Franson.

Dreger reports that both Dallas and Anaheim are interested.
Well I have a deal for you.
Whichever one doesn't get Phaneuf/Franson can get Phaneuf/Franson.
Then keep purging the Burke core.
 

Durkin67

Guest
Baffling, given the history of this team with handing out over-valued contracts, that fans want to do the same with Franson.

He's had one good stint of ~50 games, and people want him locked up long term lol?

Small sample size, or what?

Players at his age don't just magically turn into top pairing guys. Is it more likely that Franson has finally developed into a top player despite being a bottom 4 guy his entire career? Or is it more likely that he's elevated his play in a contract year?

This team has made so many contractual mistakes that it just can't afford to make another one with Franson. Let him go.

Also - it's about time this organization started loading up on under-valued deals; cheaper deals where guys are over-excelling based on what they are producing. Right now, they have too many over-valued, over-paid guys.

Letting Franson goes is part 1 of that transition.


D men are generally late to the party in terms of development, especially big guys, who generally take longer to put it all together. You're basing your evaluation on his work with the league's worst defensive club. Im sure astute GMs and scouts have an entirely different set of criteria.

Franson isnt Phaneuf, and he isn't Lupul and he isn't Clarkson. At least two of those three could be forgotten easily enough. Franson leaves a huge hole. Is Gardiner going to fill it? Robidas?
Polak?

Show me the contingency plan; who covers the loss of your top scoring D and top PP asset...
 
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