Blue Jays Discussion: Turn out the lights, the season's over.

[phillipmike]

When we look at this rebuild puzzle, which pieces will still be here when this team potentially makes the playoffs? Which guys will be used as trade chips to bring in upgrades to the roster?

Shapiro doesn’t have a history of trading prospects or young players to address other holes, even if we get prospect or young players back.

History suggests that he trades pending FAs or targets breakout guys to fill holes.

I don’t think you will see many position player for pitching trades because it isn’t his MO, and also because the Jays have a wave of pitching prospects coming.

I think the team will continue to grow as is, we will add FAs to trade at the deadline and target under appreciated players from other teams.

That being said I believe Jansen, Biggio, Bichette, Vladdy, Gurriel and maybe Grichuk will still be here when we try to contend. On the pitching side maybe just Kay. Borucki has to prove that he is healthy and effective. Thornton and Waguespack need to show a higher ceiling.

McGuire is also showing that his defense is worth a lot. He should be here too.

 

[Puckstuff]

Shapiro doesn’t have a history of trading prospects or young players to address other holes, even if we get prospect or young players back.

History suggests that he trades pending FAs or targets breakout guys to fill holes.

I don’t think you will see many position player for pitching trades because it isn’t his MO, and also because the Jays have a wave of pitching prospects coming.

I think the team will continue to grow as is, we will add FAs to trade at the deadline and target under appreciated players from other teams.

That being said I believe Jansen, Biggio, Bichette, Vladdy, Gurriel and maybe Grichuk will still be here when we try to contend. On the pitching side maybe just Kay. Borucki has to prove that he is healthy and effective. Thornton and Waguespack need to show a higher ceiling.

McGuire is also showing that his defense is worth a lot. He should be here too.

Maybe Grichuk sticks as a CF, but he's been so underwhelming this year. Hernandez has been better and he's not that good either

1. SS - Bichette
2. 2B - Biggio
3. 1B - Gurrero Jr.
6. LF - Gurriel Jr.
8. CF/RF - Grichuck
9. C - Mcguire / Jansen

2. Pearson
4. Kay
5. Thornton / Borucki / Zeuch / Wageuspack / Pannone

Biggest needs in the next 1-2 years: CF, 3B, Ace pitcher.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

If the 2020 MLB Draft was today;
1. Detroit
2. Baltimore
3. Miami
4. Royals
5. Jays


Jays are 2 games ahead of the Royals and 4 games ahead of the Marlins. Miami is leading the Royals 7-0, Jays might be on the verge of losing to the Rays.

After tonight the Jays might be only 2 games ahead of the Royals and 3 ahead of Miami.

3rd or 4th overall in the 2020 draft is a possibility for the Jays.

What are we looking to draft this year if the right player falls to us?
More pitching?
CF?

 

[Discoverer]

Shapiro doesn’t have a history of trading prospects or young players to address other holes, even if we get prospect or young players back.

History suggests that he trades pending FAs or targets breakout guys to fill holes.

I don’t think you will see many position player for pitching trades because it isn’t his MO, and also because the Jays have a wave of pitching prospects coming.

I think the team will continue to grow as is, we will add FAs to trade at the deadline and target under appreciated players from other teams.

That being said I believe Jansen, Biggio, Bichette, Vladdy, Gurriel and maybe Grichuk will still be here when we try to contend. On the pitching side maybe just Kay. Borucki has to prove that he is healthy and effective. Thornton and Waguespack need to show a higher ceiling.

McGuire is also showing that his defense is worth a lot. He should be here too.

Basing the team's direction on Shapiro's history is complicated because of the payroll situation in Cleveland while he was there. The highest payroll they ever had while he was GM/President was $86 million. That's hilariously low. There's a good chance that, when the team is ready to compete, they'll have payrolls roughly double that. That opens up a lot of other options as far as how you construct a team.

 

[canucksfan]

What are we looking to draft this year if the right player falls to us?
More pitching?
CF?

Draft the best player available.

 

[phillipmike]

What are we looking to draft this year if the right player falls to us?
More pitching?
CF?

Team has depth and high upside everywhere. Definitely go BPA

 

[The Nemesis]

Team has depth and high upside everywhere. Definitely go BPA

Always go bpa in baseball. It takes so long for most prospects to make it and the attrition rate is so high that you can't afford to sacrifice bpa talent level for positional fit. If you pick someone who doesn't fit your needs 3 or 4 years down the road, then that's what the trade market is for.

 

[phillipmike]

Red Sox part ways with Dave Dombrowski

Wow, gone a year after a World Series.

 

[Mach85]

Red Sox part ways with Dave Dombrowski

Wow, gone a year after a World Series.

I honestly don't get why they thought things would be different. Dombrowski's always been about cashing in prospects for stars to make a run. Unless that's exactly what they wanted from him and now that mission's accomplished they're bringing someone in to rebuild the farm. Just seems wasteful.

 

[Sens]

To be fair he did not want to re-sign Sale and ownership demanded it

Been on this path since then

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Red Sox part ways with Dave Dombrowski

Wow, gone a year after a World Series.

Who would have expected their entire starting staff to fall off a cliff this year?

Not addressing the bullpen was the biggest mistake.

That offense is still going to be great for years if they can keep Betts around.

 

[Discoverer]

Who would have expected their entire starting staff to fall off a cliff this year?

Not addressing the bullpen was the biggest mistake.

That offense is still going to be great for years if they can keep Betts around.

The only one who unexpectedly fell off a cliff is Sale.

- Price hasn't been that much worse than he was the last couple years, and he just turned 34.
- Rodriguez is having a career year.
- Outside of one year, Porcello has always been a good-not-great starter. Maybe it's just me, but he's also always felt like a guy who would fall off quickly if his stuff took a step back.
- Eovaldi looked like the contract was going to be ugly from day one.

Add in a hilarious collection of horrible depth options and a deadline acquisition of a pitcher who's been mostly awful over the last three years and you've got yourself a rotation that had a pretty decent chance of being terrible.

 

[BlueForever75]

The Jays roster next season should include Smoak on it and this is why:

1. Vet presence, and a good one for the kids
2. Above average 1B defensively that will help young players around infield (Vladdy, Bichette and Biggio). Probably top 5 in all of baseball defensively at 1B.
3. Switch hitter that can still hit and doesn't clog up base paths
4. Tellez isn't the answer at 1B, that ship has sailed

The Jays should give Groshans every opportunity to continue to grow and one day claim 3B. Probably in the next couple of years. At this point you can shift Vladdy to 1B. Until then Smoak is the answer and the Jays should lock him up immediately.

 

[IceColdBear]

The Jays roster next season should include Smoak on it and this is why:

1. Vet presence, and a good one for the kids
2. Above average 1B defensively that will help young players around infield (Vladdy, Bichette and Biggio). Probably top 5 in all of baseball defensively at 1B.
3. Switch hitter that can still hit and doesn't clog up base paths
4. Tellez isn't the answer at 1B, that ship has sailed

The Jays should give Groshans every opportunity to continue to grow and one day claim 3B. Probably in the next couple of years. At this point you can shift Vladdy to 1B. Until then Smoak is the answer and the Jays should lock him up immediately.

I would give him a one year $ 7 million dollar deal or something like that. He'll probably want a multi-year deal though (not sure if he'll get one), there's no way I'd give him more than 2 years. I do like Smoak, though.

 

[BlueForever75]

I would give him a one year $ 7 million dollar deal or something like that. He'll probably want a multi-year deal though (not sure if he'll get one), there's no way I'd give him more than 2 years. I do like Smoak, though.

Smoak should be signed on a 1 yr plus one year team option. Same type of deal that we signed Galvis for last off season.

Would be a wise move for the Jays.

 

[Hoverhand]

Wow, hard disagree on the Dombrowski firing. He has his faults but he always finds a way to get his team into contention, cant say the same for most Pres/GMs

 

[Discoverer]

Wow, hard disagree on the Dombrowski firing. He has his faults but he always finds a way to get his team into contention, cant say the same for most Pres/GMs

Except that they've taken a huge step back this year, are pretty close to maxed out on payroll, and have the worst farm system in baseball. Dombrowksi is good at going all-in to win, and he succeeded at that in Boston. But... now what? How do you continue to go "all-in" with the team where it is right now?

 

[landy92mack29]

Yeah ideally they bring back Smoak as the vet presence and help with the defense. If he doesn't want to come back though and his option isn't picked up my plan B would be to bring Encarnacion back on a 1 year deal. Think he'd be a good mentor for the young guys and especially for Vladdy.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Maybe Grichuk sticks as a CF, but he's been so underwhelming this year. Hernandez has been better and he's not that good either

1. SS - Bichette
2. 2B - Biggio
3. 1B - Gurrero Jr.
6. LF - Gurriel Jr.
8. CF/RF - Grichuck
9. C - Mcguire / Jansen

2. Pearson
4. Kay
5. Thornton / Borucki / Zeuch / Wageuspack / Pannone

Biggest needs in the next 1-2 years: CF, 3B, Ace pitcher.

This just illustrates how far away the Jay's are from being a good team.

Giles will also likely be dealt this off-season so that will be another long term hole to fix.

Next year will be about breaking in a few more youngsters with high upside in Kay and Pearson but I fully expect us to be about a 60 - 65 win team. 2021 we should start investing in some good MLB pieces to surrounded the youth and aim to be around an 80 win team. 22-23 is when our contention window should be opening up as the Jay's get another legit MLB talent or two and graduate even more high end youth in Groshans, Manoah, Pardino, SWR, top pick this draft, etc.

 

[Rude Dog]

A GM that isn’t afraid of going for it. Jays fans went decades with GMs saying we are a year away from being a year away until AA finally decided to make something happen. Didn’t happen with the Reyes trade but he kept going. Mainly because he was running out of time too. Shatkins just feel like JP all over again. Hope I am wrong but it feels like jays will always be a year away from being a year away. I would be all for bringing in Dombrowski.

 

[thehockeysong]

A GM that isn’t afraid of going for it. Jays fans went decades with GMs saying we are a year away from being a year away until AA finally decided to make something happen. Didn’t happen with the Reyes trade but he kept going. Mainly because he was running out of time too. Shatkins just feel like JP all over again. Hope I am wrong but it feels like jays will always be a year away from being a year away. I would be all for bringing in Dombrowski.

JP was always directionless - I don't think you could be honest and say the current team doesn't have an obvious path to improvement. Ultimately it just comes down to whether people agree with the path or not.

 

[Lightsol]

A GM that isn’t afraid of going for it. Jays fans went decades with GMs saying we are a year away from being a year away until AA finally decided to make something happen. Didn’t happen with the Reyes trade but he kept going. Mainly because he was running out of time too. Shatkins just feel like JP all over again. Hope I am wrong but it feels like jays will always be a year away from being a year away. I would be all for bringing in Dombrowski.

Um, Dombrowski is the reason the Tigers' farm system sucked for over a decade, and it looks like he's leaving Boston in the same boat. Yeah, bring Dombrowski in... If you're okay with the AA plan taken over a much longer period of time.

 

[canucksfan]

A GM that isn’t afraid of going for it. Jays fans went decades with GMs saying we are a year away from being a year away until AA finally decided to make something happen. Didn’t happen with the Reyes trade but he kept going. Mainly because he was running out of time too. Shatkins just feel like JP all over again. Hope I am wrong but it feels like jays will always be a year away from being a year away. I would be all for bringing in Dombrowski.

If Dombrowski did it properly the Sox could have been competed at a high level for longer than they would be now. They have a lot of nice core pieces but a ton of holes especially at the pitching level. Granted they dis win a World Series with him, but they had a very small window to do so. I want the Jays to follow a similar model to the Astros and Cubs. Competing every year with waves of talent. Sox have had the worst minor league system in the league for two years in a row now.

I’d be furious if they brought in Dombrowski

 

[phillipmike]

Can’t say Montoyo doesn’t love baseball;



With all these sports insiders and broadcasters being let go, it’s amazing home Simmons still has a job, one of the worst at his job all time - what a terrible take;

 

[theaub]

JP was always directionless - I don't think you could be honest and say the current team doesn't have an obvious path to improvement. Ultimately it just comes down to whether people agree with the path or not.

JP was directionless because ownership was directionless. They brought him in to cut costs and create a decent team with a $50M payroll (which he did) and then all of the sudden they gave him a whack of money and told him he had to spend it all by the end of 2007. The end result of the same type of team with a bunch of mediocre (and one good) FA contracts plopped on top wasn't a surprise.