Post-Game Talk: Tues, Sept. 27 | NYI 0 vs PHI 4 | Preseason

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Glad to read that Del Zotto has had two solid games in a row. People are quick to dismiss him and run him out of town, but he's going to be an extremely important player on the defense going forward. He's going to be key in helping the young prospects transition to the NHL game and he's going to be asked to carry a very heavy load while they get acclimated. Hard to believe that he was scrap heap material almost three years ago and now he's becoming a very important cog. Great redemption story.

 

[sobrien]

My big focus on the game was the 3rd line, young d, mdz and lube. My take:

Laughton cousins and Weise looked very good together. Fast, fiesty and effective

Prov looked solid, had some gaffs but it was his second game after playing 28 mins the night before and his first game at WFC this year. Expected out of him.

Sanhiem struggled for a little and really picked it up after that Miele goal. Looked confident and sharp in both ends after he got his legs. Same applied for him. First game at home. Nerves are exceptable

Myers looked amazing. A real gem. He truly looked like he could step in and play pro hockey. Will he need time, sure but boy did he look close last night.

Mdz showed he is definitely ready to take on a larger role and didn't skip a beat with the injury. Really glad to see him come out game one and play that well.

Lube was everything we need on the 4th line. He is fast, strong and very aware of everything around him. Had some offensive ability but looked really good in his own zone. He could be the end of vdv

Oh and mason was on point.

I'm very excited at the prospect of a Bellemare - Gordon - Lyubimov 4th line. That's an extremely effective and talented 4th line who can eat up 10-12 mins a night

 

[bb12]

I'm very excited at the prospect of a Bellemare - Gordon - Lyubimov 4th line. That's an extremely effective and talented 4th line who can eat up 10-12 mins a night

Bellemare also took a huge step forward I think. He looked very good in the World Cup. I just hope hak sees what we see and doesn't stick with vdv

 

[Hiesenberg]

10 things from Charlie @ BSH.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...-10-things-we-learned-from-the-preseason-home

Good read on Provorov as he tried to watch him under a microscope (because he knows pairing it up would be useless)

 

[Hiesenberg]

Bellemare also took a huge step forward I think. He looked very good in the World Cup. I just hope hak sees what we see and doesn't stick with vdv

Jesus Christ, that bottom 6 could actually be useful if we boot VDV off the 4th. This team needs speed, I know Gordon won't, but if Lubyimov & Bellemare can provide it, the 3rd line with Cousins (who's gotten better) and Laughton + Weise.

You are talking about a very different forward crew.

 

[Les Averman]

A few takeaways from the game - although I only saw the second half of the game, and the last period of Monday's Islanders game.

- Jordan Weal doesn't belong near an NHL lineup. He's not anywhere near strong enough, he's not fast enough and he could not drive any possession. It was a 2-man offensive line between Simmonds and Schenn. Pretty horrendous showing for a guy who's trying to show he belongs and got an A+ opportunity to prove it.

- Love what I've see from Laughton. He looks like he's been focusing on his backchecking and was very noticeable getting back in the neutral zone breaking up plays. He's really utilizing his speed. I like the idea of that line a lot, although Cousins looks a bit rusty, which is obviously expected in preseason.

- Is Read a healthy scratch or a 4th liner? Jake will end up back at RW2 but will Read move down to wing on the 4th line ahead of Lyubimov and VDV, or will he be upstairs?

- Vandevelde looked pretty good out there, minus the penalty, although he didn't really drive any offense. I'd prefer Lyubimov, who has shown the ability to shoot the puck and play a little bit in the offensive zone.

- Myers was certainly the best of the young defensemen. He looked the most confident and the most physical. Interestingly enough, he looks farther along than Sanheim. Provorov was just behind him, although he wasn't as aggressive in the offensive zone, which he doesn't need to be. Loved his PP towards the end of the second where he set Cousins up twice in a row beautifully.

- Sanheim struggled but came on in the third, although, as Stizzle mentioned, it could be that he's having some trouble adjusting to the right side. He looked like he had some trouble controlling the puck along the boards a couple of times on his off-hand. I'm interested to see how they end up using him on the Phantoms. I imagine that they'd like to try him on the right side, although they may be fine with him playing the left given what they've seen out of Myers to handle a top 4 role. That way, they can roll Provorov, Morin and Sanheim each down the left, with Ghost, Myers and somebody else on the right.

- Del Zotto looked great. Very smooth, very few errors. He's still not a useful PP guy, but he's been very good at 5v5 and on the PK.

- I'm getting really sick of seeing MacDonald or Schultz mishandle the puck at the point and lose possession for us.

 

[Hiesenberg]

A few takeaways from the game - although I only saw the second half of the game, and the last period of Monday's Islanders game.

- Jordan Weal doesn't belong near an NHL lineup. He's not anywhere near strong enough, he's not fast enough and he could not drive any possession. It was a 2-man offensive line between Simmonds and Schenn. Pretty horrendous showing for a guy who's trying to show he belongs and got an A+ opportunity to prove it.

- Love what I've see from Laughton. He looks like he's been focusing on his backchecking and was very noticeable getting back in the neutral zone breaking up plays. He's really utilizing his speed. I like the idea of that line a lot, although Cousins looks a bit rusty, which is obviously expected in preseason.

- Is Read a healthy scratch or a 4th liner? Jake will end up back at RW2 but will Read move down to wing on the 4th line ahead of Lyubimov and VDV, or will he be upstairs?

- Vandevelde looked pretty good out there, minus the penalty, although he didn't really drive any offense. I'd prefer Lyubimov, who has shown the ability to shoot the puck and play a little bit in the offensive zone.

- Myers was certainly the best of the young defensemen. He looked the most confident and the most physical. Interestingly enough, he looks farther along than Sanheim. Provorov was just behind him, although he wasn't as aggressive in the offensive zone, which he doesn't need to be. Loved his PP towards the end of the second where he set Cousins up twice in a row beautifully.

- Sanheim struggled but came on in the third, although, as Stizzle mentioned, it could be that he's having some trouble adjusting to the right side. He looked like he had some trouble controlling the puck along the boards a couple of times on his off-hand. I'm interested to see how they end up using him on the Phantoms. I imagine that they'd like to try him on the right side, although they may be fine with him playing the left given what they've seen out of Myers to handle a top 4 role. That way, they can roll Provorov, Morin and Sanheim each down the left, with Ghost, Myers and somebody else on the right.

- Del Zotto looked great. Very smooth, very few errors. He's still not a useful PP guy, but he's been very good at 5v5 and on the PK.

- I'm getting really sick of seeing MacDonald or Schultz mishandle the puck at the point and lose possession for us.

Just a matter of time my friend.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

Amac did do a fine job on the PK yesterday though. Great active stick nullifying a few chances during the 5 v 3.

 

[Hiesenberg]

And I commend him, but if his only possible attribute to this team is to be relatively useful in a spot that the Flyers will do everything they can to not be in that situation, he needs to go.

This is a reason why people weigh 5v5 stats, the game is played most during that time and MacDonald is one of the worst players in the league at it.

 

[Curufinwe]

Glad to read that Del Zotto has had two solid games in a row. People are quick to dismiss him and run him out of town, but he's going to be an extremely important player on the defense going forward. He's going to be key in helping the young prospects transition to the NHL game and he's going to be asked to carry a very heavy load while they get acclimated. Hard to believe that he was scrap heap material almost three years ago and now he's becoming a very important cog. Great redemption story.

I thought he was good last night, but there will be big question marks about his future here until he's either extended or traded.

If he was right handed I think Hextall would have already re-signed him.

 

[Flyotes]

Did we ever find out what happened to Schultz? I know he left and came back. Skate issue? Seemed fine after.

 

[Curufinwe]

And I commend him, but if his only possible attribute to this team is to be relatively useful in a spot that the Flyers will do everything they can to not be in that situation, he needs to go.

This is a reason why people weigh 5v5 stats, the game is played most during that time and MacDonald is one of the worst players in the league at it.

He hasn't been as a Flyer. There he is right next to Olli Maata, nowhere near guys like Girardi and Grossmann.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...eamid=0&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

 

[Hurricane28]

Did we ever find out what happened to Schultz? I know he left and came back. Skate issue? Seemed fine after.

Probably just dead leg, wears off after a few minutes

 

[Hiesenberg]

He hasn't been as a Flyer. There he is right next to Olli Maata, nowhere near guys like Girardi and Grossmann.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...eamid=0&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

My god that's a lot of numbers in one click. My apologies then, I must've misread where I saw that. He's still bottom half though, I thought that page was going to show me he was Top 25%.

 

[CutOnDime97]

That's not a good stat for Provorov, I can only hope MacDonalds ****ing corpse contributed to that.

That stat is literally based off 6 minutes of ice time.

 

[deadhead]

He hasn't been as a Flyer. There he is right next to Olli Maata, nowhere near guys like Girardi and Grossmann.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...eamid=0&type=corsi&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

When you look at that list, some things jump out:

1) there's a reason they extended Gudas, RHD who is the perfect balance for the young, mobile offensive minded D-men, someone has to stay home, and do the dirty work, plus he has a heavy shot from the point that he's learned to get on net.

2) MDZ isn't worth a big extension that'll leave them cap strapped, which is why he's probably trade bait this year unless he steps it up, because your LH D-men next year are going to be Provorov, Sanheim and maybe Morin, while Myers may jump from juniors to the team if he continues to look this mature, which means you have Gudas, Myers, and Ghost on the right side. And Hagg and Alt fight it out to sit on the bench when Manning is claimed in the expansion draft.

3) MacDonald, Streit, Schultz are two too many expensive aging veterans.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I just was reading Charlie's twitter and he started talking about that exact stat and was saying that Amacs number is not accurate because he came up just as the team as a whole was getting better on 5v5.

I dunno, all of these numbers make my head hurt, just found it very odd that he pulled that stat out to stop any MacDonald defense.

 

[PALE PWNR]

That stat is literally based off 6 minutes of ice time.

No it's not. That is through the whole game. The numbers in parentheses are the Shot Attempts For and Shot Attempts Against which is where the Percentage on the right comes from.

6 Shot Attempts For vs 10 Shot Attempts Against. 6 (For) divided by 16 (Total Shot Attempts For and Against) = 37.5% which is where you get Corsi For %.

 

[tade]

Guys.

Myers, shockingly, makes the team out of camp and makes a huge impact on our defense. Same with Provorov and Konecny. Lyubimov, Bellemare, Gordon are going to play a lot over their standards and make a super-effective 4th line. Gostisbehere continues where he left off, and will challenge Karlsson / Burns for the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Our powerplay is the best in the league, for the whole season. We clinch the President's Trophy very soon in the season. Simmonds, Giroux, Couturier, Mason - with career years and all of this will result in the Stanley Cup Final appearance, where we will dominate and win the Cup. You hear it here first. That's all going to happen, really.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I guess I will say this, if Konecny and Lyubimov make it on the team this year, who do they replace? Send down Laughton and Cousins? I can see one of them making it, but with both... it's tricky.

Voracek-Giroux-Simmonds
Schenn-Couturier-Konecny
Raffl-Laughton/Cousins-Weise
Lyubimov-Gordon-PEB

It would have to be something like that?

 

[Magua]

I just was reading Charlie's twitter and he started talking about that exact stat and was saying that Amacs number is not accurate because he came up just as the team as a whole was getting better on 5v5.

I dunno, all of these numbers make my head hurt, just found it very odd that he pulled that stat out to stop any MacDonald defense.

He was simply saying that some websites generate their Corsi Relative % using season-wide data. A site like Corsica.hockey, which is my go-to, generates their Corsi Relative % using only the games that player was in.

So, AMac's stats look slightly better on some sites because the team through much of the year was an average possession team at ~49%. AMac was at a 49% CF%, so that looks OK. But, given that since he was called up, the team performed at a 55% CF%, that 49% looks very poor. On http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ (which was posted in this thread), his RelCF% is only -2%. That's not good either. But, if you just isolate AMac's stats since his February call-up, using only the games he was in and not those he wasn't, it comes out to an adjusted -7.6%. That's brutal and flies completely in the face of the "he was really good and helped get them into the playoffs" crowd. And given that Ghost was hovering around break even to +1% before they were paired together, it's why many want to get him the hell away from Ghost....or Provorov now.

Even if you want to ignore AMac's numbers on the Isles (where he was the 3rd worst possession d man in the league) and just point to his RelCF% as a Flyer, he's 26th worst in the league out of 173 qualified d men by minutes played. He isn't getting difficult usage either, like some d men below him, in that span. 2 seasons ago, he got the 2nd easiest difficulty minutes with the 2nd highest ozone starts. Again, in his time this year, 5th hardest minutes and 3rd highest ozone starts. He went from bad d man getting among league-worst smoked in tough minutes to bad d man getting slightly less smoked in easy minutes.

 

[Flyotes]

That's one helluva argument. Damn.

 

[Hiesenberg]

He was simply saying that some websites generate their Corsi Relative % using season-wide data. A site like Corsica.hockey, which is my go-to, generates their Corsi Relative % using only the games that player was in.

So, AMac's stats look slightly better on some sites because the team through much of the year was an average possession team at ~49%. AMac was at a 49% CF%, so that looks OK. But, given that since he was called up, the team performed at a 55% CF%, that 49% looks very poor. On http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ (which was posted in this thread), his RelCF% is only -2%. That's not good either. But, if you just isolate AMac's stats since his February call-up, using only the games he was in and not those he wasn't, it comes out to an adjusted -7.6%. That's brutal and flies completely in the face of the "he was really good and helped get them into the playoffs" crowd. And given that Ghost was hovering around break even to +1% before they were paired together, it's why many want to get him the hell away from Ghost....or Provorov now.

Even if you want to ignore AMac's numbers on the Isles (where he was the 3rd worst possession d man in the league) and just point to his RelCF% as a Flyer, he's 26th worst in the league out of 173 qualified d men by minutes played. He isn't getting difficult usage either, like some d men below him, in that span. 2 seasons ago, he got the 2nd easiest difficulty minutes with the 2nd highest ozone starts. Again, in his time this year, 5th hardest minutes and 3rd highest ozone starts. He went from bad d man getting among league-worst smoked in tough minutes to bad d man getting slightly less smoked in easy minutes.

So, he's still not good. lol

 

[Rebels57]

So, he's still not good. lol

Pretty much what the eye test already tells us.

He's a good PKer though.

 

[Magua]

Pretty much what the eye test already tells us.

He's a good PKer though.

He is a good PKer. No one by the eye or stat test can say differently.

The issue is he plays at all strengths like it's the penalty kill.