Post-Game Talk: TSN Tipping Point

[McTonyBrar]

Jones and Barrie belong in the awful category IMO.
I think Nygard has been adequate.

I'd put Nurse, Bear and Puljujarvi in the "adequate" category. Nurse and Bear have had ups and downs (mainly due to them playing a pairing above their skill level) and Puljujarvi is in that Kahun category of looking visually good but needs to start producing.

Jones didn’t do much wrong last night. In fact that was a good game for him after 2 games out

 

[McTonyBrar]

Jones has been pretty good when he gets to play with good players - in particular he's been really solid when out with the Draisaitl line (shots, chances, high danger chances all really good).

Larsson has been a huge drag on him.

Jones CF%: 44.8%
Jones CF% without Larsson: 47.6%
Larsson CF% without Jones: 33%

It's time to play Bouchard. It just is.

It’s time to go with 7D. The 4th line will suck. The third line had good chances last game just didn’t deliver

 

[Drivesaitl]

Anyone and I mean anyone defending Ken Holland over his handling of our tending situation is 100% out to lunch.

The 'starter' is lousy.
His backup was pure awful and was then inexplicably resigned.
He went out and got a 3rd stringer and then proceeded to get cute, letting him get claimed and putting us in dire straights.

You could not botch up goaltending worse if you tried.

Amen. Easy enough to spot.

WE've hitched a McDrai ride to an at best average goaltender. We don't even have a backup that can play right now.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Jones has been pretty good when he gets to play with good players - in particular he's been really solid when out with the Draisaitl line (shots, chances, high danger chances all really good).

Larsson has been a huge drag on him.

Jones CF%: 44.8%
Jones CF% without Larsson: 47.6%
Larsson CF% without Jones: 33%

It's time to play Bouchard. It just is.

Jones was bad in his first few games this season and was average last night.

The issue is he isn't a top 4 dman and was trying to be used as one. He is fine as a 6d.

The problem with the team is we don't have a NHL quality middle pairing. Well, we do, but it's being used as a top pairing.

We have Nurse and Bear as a good 2nd pairing and then a metric crap ton of #6 defenders and lower

 

[harpoon]

There’s smart geniuses on Facebook saying we lost because of Nurse and Bear. Imagine if Barrie and Russell had to play top pair

Do yourself a favor man. Close up your Facebook account and never look back. Nothing good ever happens on Facebook.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Amen. i could be a dick and say anybody that watched hockey could see this..

He did mess it up but it wasn't for a lack of trying. Tried for Markstrom but he wanted more than he had and ended up going to Calgary. Tried for Holtby but Holtby didn't want to be that close to home and Edmonton and Calgary were pushed out of talks quick. He tried with a few more but didn't turn out.

The best part though, is after the whole thing with Smith getting injured and losing a good #3 he tried to sign Howard and he laughed and said "nah I rather retire".

I mean, he absolutely did fail to improve our goaltending, which is leading to a guy who has never been able to play well when overworked, being overworked. It's a spectacular fail, but at least he notices it's an issue...which is refreshing....still a fail though

Edit: In the end I think Koskinen is better than some will admit but he isn't a full time starter, we need someone able to push him and share the starts.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He did mess it up but it wasn't for a lack of trying. Tried for Markstrom but he wanted more than he had and ended up going to Calgary. Tried for Holtby but Holtby didn't want to be that close to home and Edmonton and Calgary were pushed out of talks quick. He tried with a few more but didn't turn out.

The best part though, is after the whole thing with Smith getting injured and losing a good #3 he tried to sign Howard and he laughed and said "nah I rather retire".

I mean, he absolutely did fail to improve our goaltending, which is leading to a guy who has never been able to play well when overworked, being overworked. It's a spectacular fail, but at least he notices it's an issue...which is refreshing....still a fail though

There are Martians out there who know goaltending was a weakness of the team. Trying isn't good enough. We're teetering on the brink of yet another disastrous season.

 

[CycloneSweep]

There are Martians out there who know goaltending was a weakness of the team. Trying isn't good enough. We're teetering on the brink of yet another disastrous season.

I mean we have had a team for years that had GMs not even try and fix obvious issues and instead just patch the holes with saran wrap and call it a day, and not even try to actually fix it. Holland has actually tried to fix issues and acknowledged the teams weakness. Yeah it sucks he hasn't accomplished it but it's refreshing to have a GM that actually tries for once. Trying and failing is much better to me than just failing and not even putting in an effort.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He did mess it up but it wasn't for a lack of trying. Tried for Markstrom but he wanted more than he had and ended up going to Calgary. Tried for Holtby but Holtby didn't want to be that close to home and Edmonton and Calgary were pushed out of talks quick. He tried with a few more but didn't turn out.

The best part though, is after the whole thing with Smith getting injured and losing a good #3 he tried to sign Howard and he laughed and said "nah I rather retire".

I mean, he absolutely did fail to improve our goaltending, which is leading to a guy who has never been able to play well when overworked, being overworked. It's a spectacular fail, but at least he notices it's an issue...which is refreshing....still a fail though

Edit: In the end I think Koskinen is better than some will admit but he isn't a full time starter, we need someone able to push him and share the starts.

Holland has the best duo going in McDrai. one would think you could milk that into some players wanting to come here, if the org wasn't still regarded as an utter mess. Every season its the same excuses, the same faults. lets fire a coach again, why not? Everybody else in the org still getting paid including scouts can just keep going on going on.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It’s time to go with 7D. The 4th line will suck. The third line had good chances last game just didn’t deliver

I'm not sure 7D is the answer either.

The PK has been getting shelled lately. Russell got absolutely walked twice. Barrie looks lost. Larsson brings down everyone he plays with. Need some significant changes.

Nurse Koekkoek Jones down the left side

Bear Bouchard Barrie down the right side

Russell and Larsson sit

 

[CupofOil]

Amen. Easy enough to spot.

WE've hitched a McDrai ride to an at best average goaltender. We don't even have a backup that can play right now.

The Oilers have been outscored 13-1 when McDavid and Draisaitl are off the ice and I haven't even touched on the defense and all the problems they create for their own team.

The problems lie much deeper than goaltending which is also not good enough so no argument there. I'm just saying that goaltending isn't the only issue or even the primary issue this season IMO.
McDrai have been attached to a bad TEAM.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I mean we have had a team for years that had GMs not even try and fix obvious issues and instead just patch the holes with saran wrap and call it a day, and not even try to actually fix it. Holland has actually tried to fix issues and acknowledged the teams weakness. Yeah it sucks he hasn't accomplished it but it's refreshing to have a GM that actually tries for once. Trying and failing is much better to me than just failing and not even putting in an effort.

I don't doubt he tried, but when most other teams in the division managed to snag at least half decent goaltenders and ours is left holding the bag, it's hard to be too impressed by that. Holland failed in the most critical position for the Oilers and unless things turn around real quick we're going to be playing out the string in a few weeks.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Holland has the best duo going in McDrai. one would think you could milk that into some players wanting to come here, if the org wasn't still regarded as an utter mess. Every season its the same excuses, the same faults. lets fire a coach again, why not? Everybody else in the org still getting paid including scouts can just keep going on going on.

You would think it would milk some players into wanting to come here but with our cap situation (Mostly Chiarelli, Holland helped) the kinds of players we need we really don't have the money for. Should he of just bit the bullet on Markstrom? Probably.

That said. If by the end of this next offseason if this team doesn't have a legit NHL top pairing and starting goaltender than Holland's the same as the rest of our failures here. Cause of he can't do it next off season, he never will.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The Oilers have been outscored 13-1 when McDavid and Draisaitl are off the ice and I haven't even touched on the defense and all the problems they create for their own team.

The problems lie much deeper than goaltending which is also not good enough so no argument there. I'm just saying that goaltending isn't the only issue or even the primary issue this season IMO.
McDrai have been attached to a bad TEAM.

I don't think any goalie in the league coming here would make this team have a winning record. Koskinen and Smith together are nowhere near good enough, but that's my point mostly. Our goaltending isn't even the main issue

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yah, Leon's been good, but I'm not buying the narrative (again from you) that he's doing it all by his lonesome. Yamo has been doing well this year, not lighting it up like last year, but a lot of that is not having Nuge on the line. The chemistry between the 3 of them was amazing.

The Chemistry between Leon and almost anybody is amazing. NO scoring plays happen directly between Drai and Yama, very little happens, and Kahun hasn't ignited at all. Drai has huge work on that line, in all zones. Drai has been a horse EV, PP, even seeing pk minutes. he's pulling the train. He was last year for much of the season as well. Wasn't the MVP and Art Ross Trophy winner for nothing. Two years running either gets, or on pace for 50 goals. he's an absolute stud. Shame on me for singing his praises, again..

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm not sure 7D is the answer either.

The PK has been getting shelled lately. Russell got absolutely walked twice. Barrie looks lost. Larsson brings down everyone he plays with. Need some significant changes.

Nurse Koekkoek Jones down the left side

Bear Bouchard Barrie down the right side

Russell and Larsson sit

That's better in theory but that's also just a recipe for having Nurse and Bear having to play half the game every night.

Only having 2 top 4 caliber defenders is what's hurting us. I thought Barrie would at least be a low end #4 but he is struggling to even be a #6

 

[CycloneSweep]

The Chemistry between Leon and almost anybody is amazing. NO scoring plays happen directly between Drai and Yama, very little happens, and Kahun hasn't ignited at all. Drai has huge work on that line, in all zones. Drai has been a horse EV, PP, even seeing pk minutes. he's pulling the train. He was last year for much of the season as well. Wasn't the MVP and Art Ross Trophy winner for nothing. Two years running either gets, or on pace for 50 goals. he's an absolute stud. Shame on me for singing his praises, again..

No one is shaming you for singing his praises. People were shaming you for saying that Draisaitl literally does everything on his own and everyone else is just scrap. Draisaitl doesn't win those awards without his linemates. That's not a knock on Leon in anyway shape or form but without how great all 3 were together in various ways, Leon doesn't reach that height.
And there is nothing wrong with that

 

[Stoneman89]

I'm talking about play on that line.

People keep saying it's Yamo and RNH that had the chemistry, but I can't remember them doing basically anything without Drai.

I don't believe they were on a line together before Drai,so hard to tell.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That's better in theory but that's also just a recipe for having Nurse and Bear having to play half the game every night.

Only having 2 top 4 caliber defenders is what's hurting us. I thought Barrie would at least be a low end #4 but he is struggling to even be a #6

They're playing half the night already, we're bleeding goals against, and we can't make a pass out of our zone. Tippett needs to accept that this roster is built for firewagon hockey and just go for it.

 

[CycloneSweep]

They're playing half the night already, we're bleeding goals against, and we can't make a pass out of our zone. Tippett needs to accept that this roster is built for firewagon hockey and just go for it.

Pretty much. Man not even 10 games into the season and Holland might have to make a desperation trade to fix the defense or the season is going to be a write off

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kassian had 3 breakaways and NEAL had an empty net he somehow missed. Imagine if we had got one of those

Every Kass setup being by Drai, amazingly in the minute or two of Toi they had together. how is it not indelibly obvious that Drai could get Zach going and that Zach would probably like playing with Drai. He was making a point of auditioning. I haven't liked Kass up and mostly down play since the contract. But when he's involved he has wheels, and nothing like Drai to get a player on a roll.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Every Kass setup being by Drai, amazingly in the minute or two of Toi they had together. how is it not indelibly obvious that Drai could get Zach going and that Zach would probably like playing with Drai. He was making a point of auditioning. I haven't liked Kass up and mostly down play since the contract. But when he's involved he has wheels, and nothing like Drai to get a player on a roll.

I don't think either Kassian or Yamamoto on their left side would be very effective. Unless your intention is to drop Yamamoto (a better player in every way) to try and get Kassian going. Which is baffling. Kassian can't finish as is, giving him more ice time and responsibility again isn't going to help. You complain about Drai having to carry dead weight but you want him to try and drag Kassians useless corpse around?

 

[Draiskull]

The Chemistry between Leon and almost anybody is amazing. NO scoring plays happen directly between Drai and Yama, very little happens, and Kahun hasn't ignited at all. Drai has huge work on that line, in all zones. Drai has been a horse EV, PP, even seeing pk minutes. he's pulling the train. He was last year for much of the season as well. Wasn't the MVP and Art Ross Trophy winner for nothing. Two years running either gets, or on pace for 50 goals. he's an absolute stud. Shame on me for singing his praises, again..

We can change 'almost anybody' with 'almost nobody' and the statement would still hold true.
Drai has not shown chemistry with anyone other than McDavid this season.
You cannot pick an Oiler and say this person is clicking great with Draisaitl.

Props to Drai that he has still managed to produce despite getting nothing going with his linemates.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Oilers have been outscored 13-1 when McDavid and Draisaitl are off the ice and I haven't even touched on the defense and all the problems they create for their own team.

The problems lie much deeper than goaltending which is also not good enough so no argument there. I'm just saying that goaltending isn't the only issue or even the primary issue this season IMO.
McDrai have been attached to a bad TEAM.

Teams with unbalanced lineups can sometimes survive the little icetime when one or other of our top studs are out on the ice. The position of a goalie innately involving being able to save your team once in awhile. Koskinen creates a lot of the landmines around his net with the worst puck control, and rebound control I've seen here in I can't remember. Its like he's allergic to just eating up a puck. Even bad angle shots, that he can see, he's kicking out rebounds in the slot, its hilarious, if it was on any other club.

Technically I think Koskinen is not much at all. He's somewhat benefitted from being so large that his body covers up much of the net. Lets get a sumo wrestler in there.

yes I'm jk..

 

[Draiskull]

Jones didn’t do much wrong last night. In fact that was a good game for him after 2 games out

He managed to come out of last game with a +1. Draisaitl was the only other Oiler who did.