News Article: Troy Mann relieved of duties.

[JD1]

Mann's firing is unusual, but I can't say that it is in anyway unhinged. That would require a reading of the situation where Dorion has done something unjustified and I don't know that to be true.

Brent Wallace, on the other hand, is totally out of line here. His entire take on this situation is completely driven by emotion - he likes Troy Mann and doesn't like Pierre Dorion. That's all there is to it. This is his whole schtick - he seethes with rage about the Senators while his co-hosts and guests look on uncomfortably. It's been two years - it's time for him to let the anger go. It's possible to be critical of the Senators in a far more rational manner.

I don't know why mid-season AHL firings are rare, but I doubt it's because everybody is so thrilled with the job being done with their affiliate. Perhaps a lack of viable in-season replacement candidates has something to do with it?

Most people here don't watch any Belleville Senators hockey and it shows. Doubly so for the smooth-brains on Sens Twitter. So why would they have anything bad to say about him? If anything he's been totally mythologized in this fanbase as being something he's not, and yet behind the scenes there's growing discord. Maybe there would be less surprise if some of these 'alternative media' types were actually doing something worthwhile.

I'd like to know a lot more about the things Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman alluded to on 32 Thoughts. Is anybody in the Ottawa media running this stuff down? Probably not.

I think it was you that asked why no one in the Ottawa media was aware that Mann's job was potentially in jeopardy

Given connected people were reaching out to Marek, the clear implication there is the Ottawa media isn't well connected around the league.

It sounds to me like Marek's reporting supports Bowness's media briefing and that this was an accumulation of things

 

[BondraTime]

Mann wasn’t let go from Hershey for not developing prospects, regardless of their reasoning, it would be wrong. He wasn’t renewed because they missed the playoffs for the first time in his tenure.

If he couldn’t develop prospects in Hershey, with the likes of Vrana, Stephenson, Seigenthaler, Boyd, Schmidt, Walker, O’Brien, Burakovsky, Groubouer, Vanecek and Carrick all turning into great/good/serviceable players, while all being nothing prospects outside of Vrana and Burakovsky, heading into Hershey, I’d love for us to have that problem developing prospects.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Thomson got hurt. JBD got hurt. Jarventie got hurt. Greig got hurt. Sokolov has been healthy and done Sokolov things. Hard to assess Mann in light of these cases alone.

He always played these players to their strengths and put them in a position to succeed imo. I felt he was honest with their assessments. I personally am not buying the rumors. What exactly was he supposed to do with them beyond what he did. With Guenette this year he was given PP opportunities where the goal was to bring out some of his offence ... Jarventie was making strides last year and was hurt a lot of this year. It was a big contrast between him and Kleinendorst who favored the vets over the incoming prospects with icetime and slotting. When someone says he was not developing someone properly it would be really nice to have an example of what occurred and how he could have improved on it. Otherwise its just more unsubstantiated hits on someone that can't reasonably defend themselves.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Hearing the Mann interview he mentioned that they were rushing JBD and Thomson. I bet Dorion didn't like that.

Furthermore it is crazy how well the Manns and Bowness elucidate their thoughts and opinions while Dorion fumbles around for words and rings off cliches.

Probably because they know what they are talking about compared to Pierre.

Why would he?

JBD: 26OA 2018, 3 years NCAA, 75 games AHL, 26 games NHL (over 3 years)
Thomson: 19OA 2019, 57 games Liiga, 107 games AHL, 18 games NHL (over 2 years)

Covid circumstances definitely affected prospect development on the whole but how could anyone say those guys are being rushed?? Rushed into what exactly? Both guys have some of the lowest GP totals of their respective first round drafts.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sens really got off to a slow start and they did not go out and acquire a top 4 RD .. Dorion likely wanted JBD or Thomson would step in and be able to fill one of those spots or be able to more admirably replace Zub when he had to miss games due to injury.. Thomson was injured and missed his chance. JBD was called up, got injured (high ankle sprain) and was not able to play up to par when he came back.

Pointing to deficiency on D has been a common thing among fans and wide area media.

This deficiency is not Dorion's fault; Not when there are new owners coming in... Its either Troy Mann was not developing them properly; not adhering to DJ's inexplicable systems or Trent Mann and his scouting staff blew the evaluation at the draft which Dorion also has his hands in. Lets get rid of Troy and create enough stir to make that a positive on how well we run things here.

 

[jhutter]

As someone who doesn't watch Belleville nor follow them I'd be interested in knowing with which players there was a disconnect between Mann and management. The only two would be JBD and Thomson considering their ages. Can't see any reason why Sokolov would be an issue, unless it's something like wanting him to improve his skating - but even then that's what skating coaches are for.

Then there's the discussion of how much an AHL coach can actually improve players or how much it's just natural development from gaining more experience and confidence playing against men, plus getting fitter and growing into their adult bodies as they escape their teens. It's probably somewhere in the middle. Did AHL coaching fail Brian Lee or was he just never going to be good regardless? Did Karlsson going down for 12 games in his rookie season alter his career (thanks Don Nauchbaur!) or did he just need confidence and was going to be a star anyway? How much of it is developing certain skills and how much of it is a coach helping the player unlock what they already have?

This debate has always fascinated me. Was Curtis Lazar "rushed" and "ruined" or was he just not that good? Did Mann single handed turn Norris into a 35 goal scorer after one year of AHL hockey, or would he have scored the same amount of goals in the NHL with any other AHL coach?

 

[aragorn]

Thomson got hurt. JBD got hurt. Jarventie got hurt. Greig got hurt. Sokolov has been healthy and done Sokolov things. Hard to assess Mann in light of these cases alone.

Look at all the injuries Ottawa has had, that hasn't stopped people from criticizing DJ, in fact, people call them excuses. But yes, I agree they have had a lot of injuries too.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Look at all the injuries Ottawa has had, that hasn't stopped people from criticizing DJ, in fact, people call them excuses. But yes, I agree they have had a lot of injuries too.

People "like" Mann and hate DJ. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see it. God, they can't clear house soon enough so we can have some semblance of normalcy around these boards again.

 

[aragorn]

People "like" Mann and hate DJ. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see it. God, they can't clear house soon enough so we can have some semblance of normalcy around these boards again.

So it's emotional & not rational.

 

[Bileur]

"Generally that's going to be enough to keep teams in line" means never happens full stop? If your going to build strawmans do a better job.

There is no strawman, here’s where you said it:

No team is sending down injured players, full stop, The NHL is a unionized shop, you can't hide stuff like that, it's just not plausible,

Now, while Kastelic was likely cleared, I'm sure he wanted to play afterall, that doesn't mean he didn't have some bumps and bruises, no player is ever 100% mid season. Coaches can healthy scratch guys and give them maintenance days, which is what Mann did.

No but being unionized means there's a mechanism in place to deal with disagreements and generally that's going to be enough to keep teams in line, particularly when there's very little incentive to break the terms.

The very fact that you know about Veilleux is my point, teams can't keep these things quiet because players won't just shut up. It's just not going to happen on anything so clear cut in violation.

Kastelic has been nursing things pretty much all season and in and out, players are almost never 100%, my point was the odds that he wasn't or shouldn't have been cleared and Mann's comment exposed the ruse are so slim it's not worth considering, if there was fishy stuff going on Kastelic just goes to his union, gets a second medical opinion, Manns comments aren't an issue, it's friken fan fiction to think this exposes something.

Again, trying to frame my point as some kind of fiction which I made up. I’m literally listing what was reported and recognizing there is a possibility that he was sent down injured in violation of the CBA.

1) DJ says Kastelic is injured
2) Kastelic sent down
3) Mann says Kastelic is injured

Again, to be clear, I’m not saying he wasn’t cleared as fit to play, but it’s a possibility.

You’re adding details which, while logical and even likely, weren’t and still have not been reported on.

Where the team might be upset is that Kasty was allowed to go vacation in Florida, if they sent him down to get reps in Belleville and Mann said nope, go party in Florida, that's a big FU to the teams plans and perhaps overstepping Mann's role.

That’s definitely among the possible scenarios of what happened. Like I said, I don’t know what happened so I won’t deny that’s a possibility.

You need to take a deep breath man we’re not at cross purposes.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

People "like" Mann and hate DJ. You don't have to be a psychiatrist to see it. God, they can't clear house soon enough so we can have some semblance of normalcy around these boards again.

Well it's not like DJ has broken the doors down on anything either. He has maybe met expectations this year, at best, and previous to this year, despite the roster, had a rocky up and down go at it. He just hasn't done much to earn much goodwill and feels like he's been treading water more than thriving at any point in his tenure, even though he probably doesn't deserve all the criticism he gets.

Mann on the other hand did seem like was being put on a bit of a pedestal even though most wouldn't have watched his teams much at all.

 

[coladin]

I haven't said anybody's story is right or wrong, I've been pretty consistent that neither story fully adds up to me. I just don't think it's at all unusual for a reporter to trust their own sources over someone else's.

I question your takes because they have big jumps in logic and show a pretty clear bias towards Wallace, the very thing you accuse him of. I actually pointed out Wallace was likely sharing what Ian was uncomfortable sharing, essentially questioning how reliable it is right off the bat.

Bruce used to get scoops for sure, but he hasn't gotten anything of substance for a while now, and has been flat out wrong more than a couple times, it seems evident his sources have dried up and aren't at all what they used to be. As for Hanna, everyone starts somewhere, she's young but around the team all the time in her role, I personally think it's a bit odd to suggest she couldn't have fostered any sources within the org, but whatever.

And what do you mean by when you consider why Wallace treated her that way?

I agree neither story adds up, but Wallace was pretty adamant that his was right...

I think logically, there is an avenue where the Senators are not Claire Hanna's source.

While I don't like Wallace, and I will admit my bias. But I am not running a podcast covering a sports team, where his bias looks ugly and unbecoming. Hence my Claire Hanna comment. Clearly, he is jealous and spiteful that she is doing his old job? he would love nothing better than for her to get tarred and feathered over this.

 

[slamigo]

I agree neither story adds up, but Wallace was pretty adamant that his was right...

I think logically, there is an avenue where the Senators are not Claire Hanna's source.

While I don't like Wallace, and I will admit my bias. But I am not running a podcast covering a sports team, where his bias looks ugly and unbecoming. Hence my Claire Hanna comment. Clearly, he is jealous and spiteful that she is doing his old job? he would love nothing better than for her to get tarred and feathered over this.

I can see Wallace being pissed about how Melnyk essentially destroyed his TSN career but I don't get the sense that he is jealous and spiteful of Claire Hanna. He definitely has hard feelings about the org though. But I didn't get the impression that he has any hate for CH.

I also don't fully believe that the Sens were the source for CH. I have no idea who was and am hoping that info bubbles up at some point.

 

[Ice-Tray]

That’s plausible too, but if you have an inkling he’s going down after the game you should probably clarify that he’s ready but you’re on a heater and don’t want to make changes.

Yup that too.

I suspect that as part of the transaction the player in the NHL has to be officially medically cleared though. Boo boos don’t seem to count as medically unfit to play.

Anyways, I can’t wait for Saturday to come, need some game action. And hey, maybe the coaching change in Belleville will see Jarventie getting fired up and pulling up more points. Him and Tompson are the two guys I am wanting most to see make a development bump. We could use them both.

 

[Bileur]

Yup that too.

I suspect that as part of the transaction the player in the NHL has to be officially medically cleared though. Boo boos don’t seem to count as medically unfit to play.

Anyways, I can’t wait for Saturday to come, need some game action. And hey, maybe the coaching change in Belleville will see Jarventie getting fired up and pulling up more points. Him and Tompson are the two guys I am wanting most to see make a development bump. We could use them both.

Agreed. Those two hitting their potential would be a huge boost to the depth and the team could definitely use RJ’s skill and shot on PP2.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree neither story adds up, but Wallace was pretty adamant that his was right...

I think logically, there is an avenue where the Senators are not Claire Hanna's source.

While I don't like Wallace, and I will admit my bias. But I am not running a podcast covering a sports team, where his bias looks ugly and unbecoming. Hence my Claire Hanna comment. Clearly, he is jealous and spiteful that she is doing his old job? he would love nothing better than for her to get tarred and feathered over this.

Fair enough, for what it's worth, which is nothing really, I got more of the impression that he was suggesting the sens were feeding Claire Hanna fake info, so putting the blame on the team not the reporter, I figured that was why he didn't want highlight who tweeted it (why put the focus on her if you don't think she did anything wrong) until realizing people might not know what he was talking about if he didn't.

Reporters get fed incorrect info all the time, I'm sure Wally of all people know that since he's been duped before, I don't see him as being upset at the person who reported it, but who knows...

 

[armani]

This debate has always fascinated me. Was Curtis Lazar "rushed" and "ruined" or was he just not that good? Did Mann single handed turn Norris into a 35 goal scorer after one year of AHL hockey, or would he have scored the same amount of goals in the NHL with any other AHL coach?

Lazar plain sucked. Norris is where he is cuz he a real playa!

 

[Karl Prime]

Lazar plain sucked. Norris is where he is cuz he a real playa!

Lazar has kept an NHL job for a long time, which is more than you can say about a lot of players after they left Ottawa in the 2010s (Rundblad, Prince, Puempel, Wiercioch, Gryba, Conacher...). In hindsight he wasn't a first round talent but we'll never know how it might have helped him to spend all of 2014-17 in the minors playing 20 minutes a game in all situations, and specifically the PP. Maybe he ends up as a 30-40 point 3rd liner instead of replacement level 4th liner.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sens really got off to a slow start and they did not go out and acquire a top 4 RD .. Dorion likely wanted JBD or Thomson would step in and be able to fill one of those spots or be able to more admirably replace Zub when he had to miss games due to injury.. Thomson was injured and missed his chance. JBD was called up, got injured (high ankle sprain) and was not able to play up to par when he came back.

Pointing to deficiency on D has been a common thing among fans and wide area media.

This deficiency is not Dorion's fault; Not when there are new owners coming in... Its either Troy Mann was not developing them properly; not adhering to DJ's inexplicable systems or Trent Mann and his scouting staff blew the evaluation at the draft which Dorion also has his hands in. Lets get rid of Troy and create enough stir to make that a positive on how well we run things here.

"While a change at the head coach position during the season is not an ideal scenario, we felt it was necessary to deliver improved team performance"

 

[CorrectOpinion]

This guy had a bit of a Clint Eastwood vibe.

 

[Crosside]

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Best quotes

 

[slamigo]

Watched a bit of this and it was weird. Garrioch obviously defensive. Awkward interview.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Watched a bit of this and it was weird. Garrioch obviously defensive. Awkward interview.

He doesn't know anymore than what has been reported and he knows nothing about what Hanna reported

 

[Ouroboros]

He doesn't know anymore than what has been reported and he knows nothing about what Hanna reported

Nobody seems to know anything about what Claire Hanna reported.