Proposal: Trouba for Maatta

[stl76]

Well. Lets be honest here: Defense is hard to evaluate. I did check out the stuff you said and I'm afraid to tell you that it's still close between the two.

But let's keep the "Maatta is ****" -memes alive.

Bullshit.

You clearly did not look up ZSR, because Trouba started in the o-zone 48% of the time while Maatta started in the o-zone 55.5%.

You clearly did not look up TOI because Trouba averaged 21:54 mins/game while Maatta averaged 18:45.

You clearly did not look up shTOI because Trouba averaged 2:31 mins/game while Maatta averaged 1:21.

Get the f*** outta here, those numbers are NOT close. I am comfortable saying that Trouba played significantly more difficult minutes than Maatta last season.

corsica is still updating after last season, so not sure where you found QoC or QoT numbers, but I'd love to see your research on those numbers.

 

[hector morrison]

oops. meant Maatta over Gardiner. As Gardiner sucks at everything aside from offense. And is a dumb player who Makes awful mistake. and can't play D. Especailly come playoffs.

While Maatta has 2 cup runs under his belt.

The bias is strong in this one!

 

[Critical13]

oops. meant Maatta over Gardiner. As Gardiner sucks at everything aside from offense. And is a dumb player who Makes awful mistake. and can't play D. Especailly come playoffs.

While Maatta has 2 cup runs under his belt.

Name	Age	CF rel%	FF% rel	P/60	OZ starts%
Maata	23	-0.4	-0.8	0.9	56
Gardiner	27	-0.7	-0.07	1.2	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018 5v5

The first part just isn't true. He's slightly better defensively, but both are middle pairing defencemen in that regard. However, Gardiner is the better offensive player, and this doesn't take into account that he's a top PP defenceman in the league. He also gets much harder starts.

The second part is just silly. Is Rust better than Sundin because he won cups? Was Bourques career less impressive before he went to Colorado than someone like Brian Dumoulin? It's a team sport.

 

[Advanced stats]

And is a dumb player who Makes awful mistake. and can't play D. Especailly come playoffs

I see you've bought into the lies spewed around here. You should see how he did in the playoffs last season. Absolute beast. Anyways, this isn't about Gardiner so I'll let it go

 

[stl76]

Maata hasn't been the same since his injuries. He's a bottom pairing D at this point. The gap between him and Trouba is gigantic.

Maatta is not a bottom pairing D, that's absurd. He is a middle pairing dman, IMO a solid #4.

Agreed that there is a large gap between Maatta and Trouba tho. Trouba is a solid #2 currently, definitely top pairing defender.

 

[PensandCaps]

Name	Age	CF rel%	FF% rel	P/60	OZ starts%
Maata	23	-0.4	-0.8	0.9	56
Gardiner	27	-0.7	-0.07	1.2	48

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018 5v5

The first part just isn't true. He's slightly better defensively, but both are middle pairing defencemen in that regard. However, Gardiner is the better offensive player, and this doesn't take into account that he's a top PP defenceman in the league. He also gets much harder starts.

The second part is just silly. Is Rust better than Sundin because he won cups? Was Bourques career less impressive before he went to Colorado than someone like Brian Dumoulin? It's a team sport.

And Maatta is 4 years younger and already better. I think most GMs would take the more complete Dman who is younger and locked up. All while having a brain...unlike Gardiner.

 

[JetsHomer]

Wouldn’t even give up Myers for Maatta. Maatta is garbage

 

[WhoTagz]

Fair deal for both teams and it makes sense, yeah? Two players who aren't that far apart from each other skill-wise.

The jets can get a better dman for trouba maata is eh

 

[kerrabria]

How anybody is calling this an awful trade is beyond me.

Trouba is a 2D and might end up a 1D. Maatta is a 3D and might end up a 2D

Maatta is on a very good contract for the next 4 years, Trouba is RFA and clearly wants to pick his destination.

WPG obviously loses this trade, but Trouba is screwing them in with his pickiness, so they are going to lose anyway. Nobody is shoving this trade down WPG's throat, it isn't that lopsided, but it's way more fair than a lot of people are giving it credit for.

 

[stl76]

How anybody is calling this an awful trade is beyond me.

Trouba is a 2D and might end up a 1D. Maatta is a 3D and might end up a 2D

Maatta is on a very good contract for the next 4 years, Trouba is RFA and clearly wants to pick his destination.

WPG obviously loses this trade, but Trouba is screwing them in with his pickiness, so they are going to lose anyway. Nobody is shoving this trade down WPG's throat, it isn't that lopsided, but it's way more fair than a lot of people are giving it credit for.

You really believe Maatta has top pairing potential?

 

[elmaco]

Wouldn’t even give up Myers for Maatta. Maatta is garbage

Don't get your panties in a twist now, he's not better than Trouba but definitely not garbage.

 

[Flyerfan52]

Would be interested to hear from Jets fans who they 'realistically' expect to get back for Trouba.

I imagine it would be a youngish (24-27 years old) defensive D that is a slight downgrade but could slide in beside Morrissey on that shutdown pair & a 1st as the other team gets a better all around player.

 

[Revelation]

Please no, I want to keep playing the Pens with Maatta and Letang getting as much ice time as possible. If you're giving them Trouba at least pry someone capable like Dumolin from them.

 

[kerrabria]

You really believe Maatta has top pairing potential?

Specifically 2D potential. Top pairing implies that 1/2D Yandle type. I think Maatta has the offensive and defensive ability to be a mobile 1D's sidekick on the top pairing. The question will be whether or not he becomes more consistent.

I imagine it would be a youngish (24-27 years old) defensive D that is a slight downgrade but could slide in beside Morrissey on that shutdown pair & a 1st as the other team gets a better all around player.

So literally a right handed Maatta and a 1st.

But I wouldn't count on getting that 1st. Yes, the other team gets the better player, but the whole reason you're trading Trouba is because he is picking his own destination. The other team has no incentive to give you equal value.

 

[kerrabria]

Please no, I want to keep playing the Pens with Maatta and Letang getting as much ice time as possible. If you're giving them Trouba at least pry someone capable like Dumolin from them.

Skating and drinking are the two only hockey skills that Maatta isn't at least as good as Dumoulin at.

 

[kittiecarlyle]

There's one single skill that he's better at and that's skating.

There's more than one. Skating is definitely ONE of them though.

 

[Flyerfan52]

So literally a right handed Maatta and a 1st.

But I wouldn't count on getting that 1st. Yes, the other team gets the better player, but the whole reason you're trading Trouba is because he is picking his own destination. The other team has no incentive to give you equal value.

I wouldn't count Maatta (who I wouldn't mind as a 2nd pair LD BTW) as a shutdown player. I'm thinking more of a Hamonic type.

Buffalo didn't have reason to give equal value for E Kane either as everyone knew he's never sully a Jets uniform again after he announced just before gametime in Vancouver he was having elective surgery so wouldn't participate in what was the Jets 1st legitimate playoff chance. The 1 that brought everything to a head on top of his other stunts to the degree that the normally laid back off the ice Big Buff reacted. Yet Chevy got a rental for the push in Stafford, traded oft injured Bogo for the useful Myers & added Armia, Lemieux & the 1st that became Roslovic. A pretty good haul for an injured (?) disgruntled player that picked if/when he wnted to play.

Don't under estimate Chevy. He's patient & his aim is always improvement. If 1 team doesn't want to meet his price there are 29 other 1s & the quality of the parts offered determines the trade. He might well settle for a 2C & try o fill the D spot internally or via other moves.
& in this case it's not a matter of even removing a poison from the locker room. After Trouba's ill advised holdout 2 years ago Trouba showed up in game shape & was welcomed back by his teammates. I've never heard word 1 about him being a distraction. So even playing Jacob & then moving him @ the draft is an option since once signed he does give everything on & off the ice. (I still think his biggest flaw is accepting the advice of his agent. The bigger the $s the larger his payment & KO is mercenary.)

 

[Jeti]

Clueless. Just making stuff up. Maatta just had his best regular season.

And had a great 2017 playoffs....All after his injury.

Calling him a bottom pair Dman is insanity. Like straight up lying.

Maybe we're watching different games. Anytime I watch him, including several times in the 2017 playoffs, he's looked like he has cement feet and he's constantly being walked around.

 

[PensPlz]

No thanks. Don't need Trouba's cap hit.

If Maatta is to be moved, I would prefer a LW in return.


Also, people talking about Maatta's skating: are the Jets a particularly fast team? They have some quick players, but as a whole...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I hope this is a joke lol maata’s highest potential is a second pair dman

Maatta's already a second pair defenseman. If he improves his skating even a touch, he'd be a great #2. He's already smart, positionally sound, can move the puck, and jump into the offense. His only big glaring weakness is he can get beat wide because of his footspeed.

 

[Peggy]

How anybody is calling this an awful trade is beyond me.

Trouba is a 2D and might end up a 1D. Maatta is a 3D and might end up a 2D

Maatta is on a very good contract for the next 4 years, Trouba is RFA and clearly wants to pick his destination.

WPG obviously loses this trade, but Trouba is screwing them in with his pickiness, so they are going to lose anyway. Nobody is shoving this trade down WPG's throat, it isn't that lopsided, but it's way more fair than a lot of people are giving it credit for.

A 1 for 1 trade like this would be bad management. You can always find a way to get value back

If this trade is happening it's with other parts involved . Not just a straight up 1 for 1.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Agreed.

Gardiner is also very smart(more offensively inclined) and is average defensively.

If he was he'd be a #1D.

 

[JetsHomer]

Show me.

Far better offensive results while playing far harder minutes. Don’t give me the spiel about QoC, a garbage stat that I’m sure you wouldn’t be able to explain, a top pairing 22.5 minute #2 Dman plays harder minutes than the 18 minute a nights sheltered #4 guy. Better defensive results playing harder minutes, with far superior offensive results

Trouba > Maatta AINEC

 

[PitchNHL]

Maatta's already a second pair defenseman. If he improves his skating even a touch, he'd be a great #2. He's already smart, positionally sound, can move the puck, and jump into the offense. His only big glaring weakness is he can get beat wide because of his footspeed.

He will never be a true number 2 on a good team

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Jets should just pay Trouba and end all this. Small market woes (no insults intended). If they decide to move him, they won't be doing it from a position of strength, and probably won't get what he's really worth. Maybe Maatta isn't the answer, but I'd love to hear realistically what is.

Also I debate if the Pens even need Trouba and his upcoming contract.