Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[Sorinth]

Well I'm not talking about the players, or the NHLPA. I'm talking about the team and the lack of oversight and as far as I know, even after skimming through CBA, nothing seems to indicate there are restrictions set.

This will probably be my last post on the subject, yes if there are no rules preventing anything, then we can and should do more. But a quick google search came up with this (Note the article is not mainly about the NHL)

One NHL team strength coach commented that he could not contact his players in the off-season to see how their training was going. The players, however, could contact the strength coach if they had any questions or wanted to voluntarily offer information regarding their progress.

Off-Season Training in Professional Sports: The Challenge of New Collective Bargaining Agreements

Another article about Jake Virtanen of the Canucks mentioned players are allowed to use team facilities but still seemed to have limits on what the team can do

They are allowed to open their facilities to the players, and they can use those areas to work out – which is exactly what Virtanen did. But they wouldn’t be able to monitor what the players are doing within those workouts or what happens outside of the rink.

Fun with the CBA! Off-Season Training

 

[badi]

#Habs 1st RD picks from 2009 to 2016
2009: Louis Leblanc - No QO
2010: Jarred Tinordi - Traded
2011: Nathan Beaulieu - Traded
2012: Alex Galchenyuk - Traded
2013: Michael McCarron - Traded
2014: Nikita Scherbak - Waived
2015: Noah Juulsen - (AHL)
2016: Mikhail Sergachev - Traded

 

[Et le But]

While Bergevin and the development system he put in place deserve a significant amount of blame, Timmins has an unacceptable first round record.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

While Bergevin and the development system he put in place deserve a significant amount of blame, Timmins has an unacceptable first round record.

Timmins has an unacceptable record overall.

 

[WinterLion]

Timmins has an unacceptable record overall.

Have you compared his record to other teams objectively? I know it was done while back, I'd be curious to see some results of that.

 

[bleuetbio]

#Habs 1st RD picks from 2009 to 2016
2009: Louis Leblanc - No QO
2010: Jarred Tinordi - Traded
2011: Nathan Beaulieu - Traded
2012: Alex Galchenyuk - Traded
2013: Michael McCarron - Traded
2014: Nikita Scherbak - Waived
2015: Noah Juulsen - (AHL)
2016: Mikhail Sergachev - Traded

Even there, he sould be fired at the end of the season for drafting KeKe who becomes clearly a huge mistake

 

[SnapVirus]

Timmis is not assistant gm and not director of amateur scouting since like what? 3 years?

yeah he sucked but not he aint doint that job anymore.

 

[montreal]

It's way too early to write Kotka off but at some point they have got to stop drafting for need. MB says we need size, MB says we need a center, MB says we need defensemen. There's no way this is all on Timmins imo. MB is one of the worst things to ever happen to this organization along with f*** nuts Molson, look at our drafts from '12 and on.

We went for the center in '12 yet couldn't develop him at center, way to go.

We went for size in '13 and that blew up in our face, wonder who pushed for size in Churla's first draft year with us.

In '14 they took a solid risk at 26th OA imo, I don't mind that it busted although to me if you want a definition of how not to develop offensive talent, I would look at how they handled Scherbak, some really dumb decisions there.

'15 they went safe with Juulsen at 26th, I wish they went for Aho but perhaps having 1 pick in the top 86 and taking a risky Scherbak the year before made them lean towards safer.

No issue with Sergachev at 9th, yea you might have picked someone better but they did pretty good there, not Timmins fault he was traded.

Poehling I like as a solid 3rd liner but I hate how they have rushed him to the NHL like so many others. Not sure who else they should have picked other then Jokiharju would certainly look good in the red white and blue.

Kotka I wanted to trade down for Boqvist or Hughes, I know many of the posters in the draft thread said how good Kotka was (I didn't follow him in his draft year) but I'm not too worried despite badly not wanting him in the NHL last year.

Caufield we'll see how that goes.

 

[calder candidate]

Now that Zadina as 11pts in 19games + Tkachuk and Hughes looking a lot more dominant. was KK the right pick but we screwed or stunned is development by rushing him to the NHL, will he overcome this or did we miss BPA by drafting for need.

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

Most of us here have been saying it for years, the Habs need better scouting. Timmins has an abysmal first round track record. I don't believe it's Timmins' fault that the drafted players don't become elite skaters but I would blame the Habs player development personnel. For a team that's been having lots of trouble attracting top UFA talent, the only way to remain competitive is to develop your own prospects in this league.

Timmins needs to go. He has done a fine job all these years but a new face would shake up things.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Now that Zadina as 11pts in 19games + Tkachuk and Hughes looking a lot more dominant. was KK the right pick but we screwed or stunned is development by rushing him to the NHL, will he overcome this or did we miss BPA by drafting for need.

Looked great until he was benched... was he rushed? I don't know. But it's weird how he suddenly wound up in the doghouse. He was a huge disappointment this year.

Hard to know how much is on the player for this vs the coach. I haven't liked his usage.

 

[montreal]

Timmins needs to go. He has done a fine job all these years but a new face would shake up things.

You have to fire MB first or it's just a waste of time as MB rushing all these kids to the NHL certainly doesn't help matters. Fire MB, get a real president that has NHL experience and then let the GM decide who else goes (hopefully Julien, Churla, several pro scouts, etc..)

 

[BargainBinSpecial]

You have to fire MB first or it's just a waste of time as MB rushing all these kids to the NHL certainly doesn't help matters. Fire MB, get a real president that has NHL experience and then let the GM decide who else goes (hopefully Julien, Churla, several pro scouts, etc..)

I have a feeling that MB will attempt a firesale before he is let go. The return won't be pretty. He will surely reach out to an old acquaintance, Regi Houle, for some advice.

 

[Kriss E]

This will probably be my last post on the subject, yes if there are no rules preventing anything, then we can and should do more. But a quick google search came up with this (Note the article is not mainly about the NHL)

Off-Season Training in Professional Sports: The Challenge of New Collective Bargaining Agreements

Another article about Jake Virtanen of the Canucks mentioned players are allowed to use team facilities but still seemed to have limits on what the team can do

Fun with the CBA! Off-Season Training

Well nothing about this is stated in the CBA, and this would seem completely Pejorative Slured, beyond belief for me. I'd have to see it written down for me to believe it. Cant contact the player during the off-season? What kind of BS is that.
But even if that were true, seems easily bypassable.

 

[Kriss E]

Looked great until he was benched... was he rushed? I don't know. But it's weird how he suddenly wound up in the doghouse. He was a huge disappointment this year.

Hard to know how much is on the player for this vs the coach. I haven't liked his usage.

I thought he looked flat for a bit prior to benching.

 

[Andrei79]

Timmins has an unacceptable record overall.

True. He needs to go. This team hasn't needed such a significant overhaul since the Houle days.

 

[Whitesnake]

Now that Zadina as 11pts in 19games + Tkachuk and Hughes looking a lot more dominant. was KK the right pick but we screwed or stunned is development by rushing him to the NHL, will he overcome this or did we miss BPA by drafting for need.

We clearly drafted for needs because Timmins himself was unable to draft 1 single great and true centerman since he joined the Habs. People should just let that sink in for 1 second. Not 1 single very good offensive centerman since 2003. Which made JK a must but shouldn't have been if they would have made their job better.

Insane how you keep hearing from Timmins and Co how centermen are more valuable since they could play all 3 positions and yet...not 1 single great C. Insane.

 

[Gravity]

Molson needs to go as well. Everyone drenched in the organization with the scent of mediocrity and failure needs to go. Start from ground zero. Only people I keep are Bouchard and Ducharme. The rest, clearly including Timmins, can get lost.

 

[Whitesnake]

The whole prospects were too rushed though somehow, you have to take some and leave some. We keep bashing every coach we've had lately that they never give a chance to kids. How the hell are all those prospects rushed if coaches never liked them and never had confidence in them? Who rushed them? Again, the only reason why a kid could be rushed is if we have nothing else to show for. And if so, that's the GM job to have a better lineup. Again. But nobody will make me believe that you can actually KILL a prospect a development by making him play in the NHL. You might not see as fast a development. You might not see the complete face of a prospect when all is said and done. But I will not believe that Galchenyuk is about to become a KHL player just because he was with us too soon. Guy was never a 2-way player. WE wanted his offense. We couldn't care less about his defensive aspect. Could he has learn the defensive game with 2 or 3 years in Laval? To a point that he becomes a competent 2-way? I doubt that. You just don't develop an IQ that way. You improve. But if you never had it, you won't suddenly get it because of 2 or 3 seasons at a lower level.

The idea is to play. A lot. If you sit in the stands in the KHL, no matter the quality of the league, it's not good. Did they kill Mete? I don't think so. Anyway, nobody will ever be able to prove that. Mete was a 4th rounder that not a lot of people was expecting. Are they killing JK? Not at the start. But this year, they should have sent him down. Will it affect him? If so, he is not made like a NHL'er should be made. But he does get some icetime. He is not in the stands. Kid is still young. And can turn it around. Thing is.....he was not the BPA. No way. And people who skyrocket a kid's rankin because of 1 single tournament are just plain wrong. But it doesn't mean he won't become serviceable as a 2nd line C though. There's still plenty of time to go.....Just wondering where are those people who were laughing at the "Zadina was the BPA" statement that I made back then.....

 

[Andrei79]

We clearly drafted for needs because Timmins himself was unable to draft 1 single great and true centerman since he joined the Habs. People should just let that sink in for 1 second. Not 1 single very good offensive centerman since 2003. Which made JK a must but shouldn't have been if they would have made their job better.

Insane how you keep hearing from Timmins and Co how centermen are more valuable since they could play all 3 positions and yet...not 1 single great C. Insane.

"One of the best in the business".

You know, that guy who cant draft forwards to save his life because his awful drafting in 2003 gave him PTSD ?

Yeah.

Any other team would have fired their scouts. Almost every team in our division changed their head scout after their GM change. Heck, this team is so bad, it employed Vegas' head scout, who by all accounts is excellent, as a pro scout.

 

[Whitesnake]

Molson needs to go as well. Everyone drenched in the organization with the scent of mediocrity and failure needs to go. Start from ground zero. Only people I keep are Bouchard and Ducharme. The rest, clearly including Timmins, can get lost.

Benoit Groulx needs to come in and join this organizaton in the coaching staff. At the NHL level. You keep Bouchard in Laval.

 

[calder candidate]

I thought he looked flat for a bit prior to benching.

He just faded after the first 10 games but he keep getting pts but is play / confidence seem to regress and there seem to be zero progress in the off season. I still thing he can become a good player he just need to go to the AHL take the training wheel off and play #1C and start attacking vs. playing it safe...I just think that it more likely that he will end up the 6 best player out of the draft...

 

[Guy Larose]

TT has to go as much as MB. If you look at the drafts from 2010 to 2016, there's only Gallagher that's of significance that was drafted. You only have a few marginal players left like Mete and Lehkonen left in all of those entire drafts. How can you win anything when you don't have anything of significance on your team in all those drafts? Not talking about 2017-2019 since we have no idea yet.

 

[Habs]

Now that Zadina as 11pts in 19games + Tkachuk and Hughes looking a lot more dominant. was KK the right pick but we screwed or stunned is development by rushing him to the NHL, will he overcome this or did we miss BPA by drafting for need.

It was never the right pick, was never the BPA, more failed scouting by the Habs. Some scouts had JK at 12 over their concerns about his shot, which is looking more and more valid. Kid can't hit a net, doesn't like traffic, makes bad decisions.

Tkachuk , or Hughes would have put this team so far ahead in terms of a rebuild, but now we are set back again watching another failed first rounder plummet in the organization. The only reason he is up here is Bergevin worried about optics.

 

[FrankMTL]

It was never the right pick, was never the BPA, more failed scouting by the Habs. Some scouts had JK at 12 over their concerns about his shot, which is looking more and more valid. Kid can't hit a net, doesn't like traffic, makes bad decisions.

Tkachuk , or Hughes would have put this team so far ahead in terms of a rebuild, but now we are set back again watching another failed first rounder plummet in the organization. The only reason he is up here is Bergevin worried about optics.

I'm not ready to give up on KK as a potential first line center....he's only 19 years old and was likely rushed last year. Had he had 1-2 years in Liiga, I think it would have done wonders for him. He's not the first good young player to hit a roadblock in his second year. The obvious thing that sticks out about him, is that he has to get way stronger. The good news is that this is entirely doable for anybody. Once you're strong enough, it gives you more confidence to fight for the puck and to get into those dirty areas.

Nick Suzuki was nowhere near the player he is now at this point last year. Although skilled, most of thought he looked somewhat soft and he wasn't interested in fighting for the pucks in the corner. Fast forward 1 year with an additional 8-10 pounds of muscle and maturity, and look at the difference.