Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part V)

[Whitesnake]

How true is this? I don't think Detroit were willing to trade the pick when their turn came up and Mantha was available. I remember wishing that he would fall to us, but never happened.

It was coming through a couple of journalists that André Pronovost told them that Timmins didn't like his nephew. Surely because of his lack of intensity.

 

[26Mats]

I wonder if Timmins would come out one day and say how wrong he was on Mantha? 'Cause Mantha's uncle, ex-habs Pronovost said that Timmins never liked Anthony. I mean, TT keep coming hard with how he would have picked Carlson, and Kreider and all those kings 5 years after the draft...but we never know who he didn't like that ended up great....Strange...

Mantha took time to develop. MB could have had him via trade if he really wanted him also.

 

[Whitesnake]

The same way Mete is in our top 4 and everybody is discrediting him anyway.

Not sure the comparison. Mete is in our top 4 because we have nobody else. Mantha would deserve to be in our top 6 he actually is a 2nd line player right now.

 

[Mrb1p]

It was coming through a couple of journalists that André Pronovost told them that Timmins didn't like his nephew. Surely because of his lack of intensity.

And as I was saying... was anyone that questioned Manthas lack of intensity wrong? Hes exactly what I predicted hed become. Its such a weird critic. You go to such lengths to make Timmins look bad.

I pray I never get to this point with Danault, because its pretty sad.

 

[habsfan92]

Yikes, why would you want more guys that can actually score, insane!

 

[Whitesnake]

And as I was saying... was anyone that questioned Manthas lack of intensity wrong? Hes exactly what I predicted hed become. Its such a weird critic. You go to such lengths to make Timmins look bad.

I pray I never get to this point with Danault, because its pretty sad.

And you go to incredible length to protect him. Insane. Point was that Timmins loves to come back and say how good he'd look if he'd listen to himself...but obviously don't mention when he didn't look when he made mistakes.

Yes he looks bad by saying that lack of intensity is enough to dislike a player? Why? Don't listen to me, listen to Timmins himself who continuously say that it's not how a prospect plays, it's how he projects. And lacking intensity, or thinking some big guy playing in a league lacks intensity is bullcrap if you just can't understand that a guy might look like that 'cause of his way of playing the game, 'cause of how easy it is for him. IN the end, stats in juniors are important. Chances are you rack stats, you will rack stats later. Especially if a guy has the frame to do so.

Oh and for Danault....don't worry....you are already PAST the sad part.

 

[Mrb1p]

And you go to incredible length to protect him. Insane. Point was that Timmins loves to come back and say how good he'd look if he'd listen to himself...but obviously don't mention when he didn't look when he made mistakes.

Yes he looks bad by saying that lack of intensity is enough to dislike a player? Why? Don't listen to me, listen to Timmins himself who continuously say that it's not how a prospect plays, it's how he projects. And lacking intensity, or thinking some big guy playing in a league lacks intensity is bullcrap if you just can't understand that a guy might look like that 'cause of his way of playing the game, 'cause of how easy it is for him. IN the end, stats in juniors are important. Chances are you rack stats, you will rack stats later. Especially if a guy has the frame to do so.

Oh and for Danault....don't worry....you are already PAST the sad part.

Thats the point man... Mantha still is that guy, so he was pretty much spot on in his projection just like I was. There was never an ounce of doubt that Mantha would score goals, has Timmins ever said otherwise?

At least call him out when hes actually wrong.

 

[Whitesnake]

Thats the point man... Mantha still is that guy, so he was pretty much spot on in his projection just like I was. There was never an ounce of doubt that Mantha would score goals, has Timmins ever said otherwise?

At least call him out when hes actually wrong.

So let's not draft a guy that could score 30 'cause he might actually not be a 200-ft player? How that makes any sense? Why did we get Drouin who is not 200-ft player? Sergachev, when we picked him, was seen as a defensive question mark with clearly some intensity issues. Why did he picked him? 'cause of his potential. Mantha had potential. He's showing it this year. After 2 25-goal seasons with a reall bad team. But hey, Timmins was surely right...lol

But hey, who needs Mantha when you have Lehkonen. A real 200-ft player...

This is for the 25th pick in 2003 we are talking about. Not top 3. We ended up picking McCarron. And chances are McCarron would have been the pick instead of Mantha. But nope...Timmins wasn't wrong.

 

[Mrb1p]

So let's not draft a guy that could score 30 'cause he might actually not be a 200-ft player? How that makes any sense? Why did we get Drouin who is not 200-ft player? Sergachev, when we picked him, was seen as a defensive question mark with clearly some intensity issues. Why did he picked him? 'cause of his potential. Mantha had potential. He's showing it this year. After 2 25-goal seasons with a reall bad team. But hey, Timmins was surely right...lol

But hey, who needs Mantha when you have Lehkonen. A real 200-ft player...

This is for the 25th pick in 2003 we are talking about. Not top 3. We ended up picking McCarron. And chances are McCarron would have been the pick instead of Mantha. But nope...Timmins wasn't wrong.

How do you know if McCarronw as ahead of Mantha on Timmins list? They wanted size that year, and Mantha surely had that.

Anyhow, you keep missing the point. Mantha himself is a disappointment, he's not a good player, at least, not one being worth losing sleep over because the Habs missed him. He's not Kucherov, Point or even Theodore, he's a 50 points player (Assuming he gets there.)

If there's one player I seriously couldn't give a f*** about TT passing over, its Mantha.

Also I don't think you can find one single person that thought Mantha was anywhere close to Drouin or Sergachev in potential, thats revisionist history. There's giving up intensity and defense for high end offense and then there's giving up intensity and defense for Matha level offense.

Funny enough, Lekhonens career high is only 7 goals behind Mantha, and yet you use him as one of the bad player to say how good Mantha is.

It's a mess, man. A real mess.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mantha took time to develop. MB could have had him via trade if he really wanted him also.

Doubt that. Wings are patient with their prospects and if you wanted Mantha, we would of had to overpay to pry him away.

 

[26Mats]

Doubt that. Wings are patient with their prospects and if you wanted Mantha, we would of had to overpay to pry him away.

If you could see what he is today, then you overpay on the price at the time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So let's not draft a guy that could score 30 'cause he might actually not be a 200-ft player? How that makes any sense? Why did we get Drouin who is not 200-ft player? Sergachev, when we picked him, was seen as a defensive question mark with clearly some intensity issues. Why did he picked him? 'cause of his potential. Mantha had potential. He's showing it this year. After 2 25-goal seasons with a reall bad team. But hey, Timmins was surely right...lol

But hey, who needs Mantha when you have Lehkonen. A real 200-ft player...

This is for the 25th pick in 2003 we are talking about. Not top 3. We ended up picking McCarron. And chances are McCarron would have been the pick instead of Mantha. But nope...Timmins wasn't wrong.

I remember the Moosheads loosing to Val-d'Or in the playoffs when we had Drouin/Ehlers and Mantha pissed me off with his ability to pick corners. After I let my frustration of losing to Val-d'Or pass by, I've been a fan of Mantha ever since.

Playing with Larkin who can find Mantha in open space also helps

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you could see what he is today, then you overpay on the price at the time.

I guess so but not so sure if the Wings really wanted to trade him. I do recall the trade rumor discussions back when and several Wing fans said he was untouchable.

Here is the bigger question... Lets say we drafted Mantha and it took him that long to develop? Would we have been patient with him? Doubt it

 

[Whitesnake]

How do you know if McCarronw as ahead of Mantha on Timmins list? They wanted size that year, and Mantha surely had that.

Anyhow, you keep missing the point. Mantha himself is a disappointment, he's not a good player, at least, not one being worth losing sleep over because the Habs missed him. He's not Kucherov, Point or even Theodore, he's a 50 points player (Assuming he gets there.)

If there's one player I seriously couldn't give a **** about TT passing over, its Mantha.

Also I don't think you can find one single person that thought Mantha was anywhere close to Drouin or Sergachev in potential, thats revisionist history. There's giving up intensity and defense for high end offense and then there's giving up intensity and defense for Matha level offense.

Funny enough, Lekhonens career high is only 7 goals behind Mantha, and yet you use him as one of the bad player to say how good Mantha is.

It's a mess, man. A real mess.

Geez, do you do that on purpose? That was my point. The news here is that Timmins WOULD NOT have drafted Mantha. He would not. Wow, so Mantha with 2 consecutive 25 goal seasons on a bad team and on his way for more than that this year is a dissapointement? Wow stop while you're ahead....lol.

As far as your point about Mantha, Drouin and Sergachev....well talk about missing tihe point. Yeah, nobody wanted Mantha top 10 either. So it's giving up on intensity and defense for high end offense FOR A TOP 10 PICK compared to giving up on defense and intensity for Mantha level of offense....AS A 25TH PICK in a bad draft.

Oh and Lehkonen's career high is 7 goals behind Mantha....wow...what kind of comparison is that? Who do you want? A guy who could have already his his career high of 18 goals 2 years ago? Or a guy who while scoring 2 seasons of 25 goals might not have reached his offensive potential yet? Are you serious here? And so far, it's still 33 goals more for Mantha in 4 less games SO FAR. But hey, who needs that guy.

So tell me this....do you trade Lehkonen for Mantha right now?

 

[26Mats]

Geez, do you do that on purpose? That was my point. The news here is that Timmins WOULD NOT have drafted Mantha. He would not. Wow, so Mantha with 2 consecutive 25 goal seasons on a bad team and on his way for more than that this year is a dissapointement? Wow stop while you're ahead....lol.

As far as your point about Mantha, Drouin and Sergachev....well talk about missing tihe point. Yeah, nobody wanted Mantha top 10 either. So it's giving up on intensity and defense for high end offense FOR A TOP 10 PICK compared to giving up on defense and intensity for Mantha level of offense....AS A 25TH PICK in a bad draft.

Oh and Lehkonen's career high is 7 goals behind Mantha....wow...what kind of comparison is that? Who do you want? A guy who could have already his his career high of 18 goals 2 years ago? Or a guy who while scoring 2 seasons of 25 goals might not have reached his offensive potential yet? Are you serious here? And so far, it's still 33 goals more for Mantha in 4 less games SO FAR. But hey, who needs that guy.

So tell me this....do you trade Lehkonen for Mantha right now?

Based on what I've heard, I wouldn't call it news that Timmins wouldn't have drafted Mantha if he were available, more like a rumor.

 

[Mrb1p]

Geez, do you do that on purpose? That was my point. The news here is that Timmins WOULD NOT have drafted Mantha. He would not. Wow, so Mantha with 2 consecutive 25 goal seasons on a bad team and on his way for more than that this year is a dissapointement? Wow stop while you're ahead....lol.

As far as your point about Mantha, Drouin and Sergachev....well talk about missing tihe point. Yeah, nobody wanted Mantha top 10 either. So it's giving up on intensity and defense for high end offense FOR A TOP 10 PICK compared to giving up on defense and intensity for Mantha level of offense....AS A 25TH PICK in a bad draft.

Oh and Lehkonen's career high is 7 goals behind Mantha....wow...what kind of comparison is that? Who do you want? A guy who could have already his his career high of 18 goals 2 years ago? Or a guy who while scoring 2 seasons of 25 goals might not have reached his offensive potential yet? Are you serious here? And so far, it's still 33 goals more for Mantha in 4 less games SO FAR. But hey, who needs that guy.

So tell me this....do you trade Lehkonen for Mantha right now?

There's a lot of mental jumps there, did I say Lekhonen was better than Mantha ?
Did I say I didn't want Mantha ?
You assume TT doesn't want Mantha at 25, but he wasnt available. Mantha fell to 20, he wasn't rated around 20-25, he was a top 15, pick exclusively.

Is it too far off saying TT wouldn't have drafted Mantha at 15? How can you know where Mantha was on TTs list ? Youre basically making accusations off what X and Y has said about Timmins. Its kinda ridiculous here, you accuse TT of not liking a top 15 rated prospect. What if last year he said he didn't like Tkachuk as a third OA, does that mean he was wrong about him? What if last year he said he didn't like Kaliyev and had the 25th pick and then he fell, does that mean he doesn't pick him? Nah, it means that he doesn't like him where he's ranked.

 

[CapSpace]

f*** Timmins and all the drafting mentality he established. We need to wipe that clean and move in an other direction or we'll keep sucking, drafting plugs after plugs in late rounds and piss in our own f***ing back yard year after year.

 

[Whitesnake]

There's a lot of mental jumps there, did I say Lekhonen was better than Mantha ?
Did I say I didn't want Mantha ?
You assume TT doesn't want Mantha at 25, but he wasnt available. Mantha fell to 20, he wasn't rated around 20-25, he was a top 15, pick exclusively.

Is it too far off saying TT wouldn't have drafted Mantha at 15? How can you know where Mantha was on TTs list ? Youre basically making accusations off what X and Y has said about Timmins. Its kinda ridiculous here, you accuse TT of not liking a top 15 rated prospect. What if last year he said he didn't like Tkachuk as a third OA, does that mean he was wrong about him? What if last year he said he didn't like Kaliyev and had the 25th pick and then he fell, does that mean he doesn't pick him? Nah, it means that he doesn't like him where he's ranked.

I don't know man, you are saying that Lehkonen whom I'm suppose to hate just has less than 7 goals in his career high. If that wasn't a comparison between the 2, or a way to either say that Lehkonen isn't that bad, or Mantha isn't that hot and that they might be similar offensively, I then have no idea why you brought that up.

I assume that Timmins didn't want him. Based on the strong rumor coming from respected journalists who have talked to exHabs André Pronovost who's Mantha uncle. Not a rumor coming from Eklund. So yeah, no doubt that he wouldn't have got him at 15. Not liking him at all is not liking him at that specific rank. Rumor isn't that he didn't like him at 15. Makes no sense 'cause Timmins didn't say that when he didn't know his rank. He said that when he knew it. At 25. So he would not have picked him at 25.

Point also is that it's funny that we excused Timmins 'cause...he would have certainly picked Carlson...certainly picked Kreider....certainly picked whoever....based on what he says himself to look good....but we can't picture him making a mistake because of a rumor? Isn't there proofs enough that he makes mistakes? Like Fischer. Like Tinordi? Like Beaulieu? Like Scherbak. Like tons of others?

And yes, if Tkachuk happens to do better than Kotka, Timmins made a mistake. Big time. I don't think it will be the case when all is said and done but yeah, that's the meaning of mistake. Going with a need instead of a BPA is a mistake. Going with big guys on D 'cause you need our D to be truculent and tough instead of going with BPA is a mistake. And if Mantha would have been available and we would have still went with McCarron as the rumor suggest, it would have been a mistake. And again, that's based on an ex-habs that has NO reasons to shit on the Habs.

Based on what I've heard, I wouldn't call it news that Timmins wouldn't have drafted Mantha if he were available, more like a rumor.

André Pronovost, ex-habs that is Mantha's uncle told a few respected journalists like Labbé and others about it. Call it a rumor all you want. I would make a difference between that source and Eklund.

 

[Mrb1p]

André Pronovost, ex-habs that is Mantha's uncle told a few respected journalists like Labbé and others about it. Call it a rumor all you want. I would make a difference between that source and Eklund.

He said what exactly? That Timmins didn't like Mantha ? That Mantha had concerns about his intensity ?

If I recall correctly, Mantha attended the Habs combine too, which puts an end to your beliefs that he was a no-draft.

 

[26Mats]

I don't know man, you are saying that Lehkonen whom I'm suppose to hate just has less than 7 goals in his career high. If that wasn't a comparison between the 2, or a way to either say that Lehkonen isn't that bad, or Mantha isn't that hot and that they might be similar offensively, I then have no idea why you brought that up.

I assume that Timmins didn't want him. Based on the strong rumor coming from respected journalists who have talked to exHabs André Pronovost who's Mantha uncle. Not a rumor coming from Eklund. So yeah, no doubt that he wouldn't have got him at 15. Not liking him at all is not liking him at that specific rank. Rumor isn't that he didn't like him at 15. Makes no sense 'cause Timmins didn't say that when he didn't know his rank. He said that when he knew it. At 25. So he would not have picked him at 25.

Point also is that it's funny that we excused Timmins 'cause...he would have certainly picked Carlson...certainly picked Kreider....certainly picked whoever....based on what he says himself to look good....but we can't picture him making a mistake because of a rumor? Isn't there proofs enough that he makes mistakes? Like Fischer. Like Tinordi? Like Beaulieu? Like Scherbak. Like tons of others?

And yes, if Tkachuk happens to do better than Kotka, Timmins made a mistake. Big time. I don't think it will be the case when all is said and done but yeah, that's the meaning of mistake. Going with a need instead of a BPA is a mistake. Going with big guys on D 'cause you need our D to be truculent and tough instead of going with BPA is a mistake. And if Mantha would have been available and we would have still went with McCarron as the rumor suggest, it would have been a mistake. And again, that's based on an ex-habs that has NO reasons to **** on the Habs.



André Pronovost, ex-habs that is Mantha's uncle told a few respected journalists like Labbé and others about it. Call it a rumor all you want. I would make a difference between that source and Eklund.

What is the exact quote of what Pronovist said to Labbe?

 

[Whitesnake]

He said what exactly? That Timmins didn't like Mantha ? That Mantha had concerns about his intensity ?

If I recall correctly, Mantha attended the Habs combine too, which puts an end to your beliefs that he was a no-draft.

In french....Habs had NO INTEREST in Mantha. And if your point is about the Habs combine....come on man. Clearly and based on past history, that Habs combine regarding Q and franco players are purely politics. Just a way to try to shut up french journalists that he doesn't care about quebecers.....

 

[Whitesnake]

What is the exact quote of what Pronovist said to Labbe?

It was Durocher.....and I'm sure Labbé said it. But on Tweet, it's Durocher. Habs had NO INTEREST.

 

[Whitesnake]

My mistake, Pronovost is Mantha's grand dad. Not uncle.

 

[26Mats]

It was Durocher.....and I'm sure Labbé said it. But on Tweet, it's Durocher. Habs had NO INTEREST.

I need to see the exact quote that was told to Durocher from Pronovost to make sure this isn't a bad game of broken telephone.

Marino on the radio today saying Pronovost said Timmins didn't want to talk to him. That's very different than Timmins saying he had no interest in the player...

 

[Whitesnake]

I need to see the exact quote that was told to Durocher from Pronovost to make sure this isn't a bad game of broken telephone.

Marino on the radio today saying Pronovost said Timmins didn't want to talk to him. That's very different than Timmins saying he had no interest in the player...

Well you won't have it 'cause seems to me it was something that was said from Pronovost to Durocher. Not like a full interview. I have no idea why Durocher would say this if it wasn't true. Not known as a Habs hater here....Now...was it a bad interpretation from Pronovost...maybe. That's why I'm still saying that it's base on a rumor. But I have no idea why Pronovost would invent such a thing.

Somehow though, this is just a rumor as what Timmins says himself about who he would have picked if he would have the chance to do so....5 years after. Not sure why this as to be taken seriously either if the first one isn't.....We all know Timmins wouldn't have come up if the guy he would have wanted was a dud....