Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part IV)

[PaulD]

Developing who ? Who was not developed ?

Are you knew?

They have not had a 100 point player in over 30 years.

They have won ONE play round in the last 5 years.

Their best forward in Brendan Gallagher.

Their best Dman and Captain is a banged up ex Nashville Predator.

Lars Eler has had the best play off of any forward since Mike Cammalerri.

This organization has had a draft and develop problem for years.

 

[1909]

Are you knew?

They have not had a 100 point player in over 30 years.

They have won ONE play round in the last 5 years.

Their best forward in Brendan Gallagher.

Their best Dman and Captain is a banged up ex Nashville Predator.

Lars Eler has had the best play off of any forward since Mike Cammalerri.

This team has had a draft and develop problem for years.

I meant... How can you developed players with limited skill sets ? They drafted badly most of the time to start with. And the ones who had some skills were involved in trades (MacDonagh, Patches, PK, Galchy, Sergachev...)

 

[Teufelsdreck]

'm satisfied with the Habs' centers. Unlke the Bruins, who have an aged Bergeron and Krejci, the Habs have Suzuki and Poehling, plus a relatively young Danault. Add a left D and the Habs will surpass the Bruins in a year or two. Nor are the Leafs a concern. they can't manage their cap and Babcock isn't a magician.. No wonder their GM fled to the Islanders.

 

[Chili]

I'm wondering if Shane Churla isn't partially responsible for Timmins' record apparently coming out of the drafting abyss. Churla joined the staff in 2013 so let's discount the 2013 draft year.

2014
Hawkey
Evans

2015
Juulsen
Vejdemo (maybe)

2016
Sergachev
Mete

2017
Poehling
Brook
Fleury
Primeau

2018
KK
Ylonen
Romanov
Harris

It's just a theory but something tells me TT had a decent right-hand man between 2003-2007. Lost him between 2008-2013. Got Churla for the period of 2014-2019. Does anyone remember the makeup of the scouting staff in previous years?

From 2002 to 2006 one of the Euro scouts was Patrik Allvin. During that period the Habs drafted Halak, Emelin, Streit, Grabovski.

Coincidence or not he left for the Pens in 2006 and the Habs haven't found much of anything in the later rounds in Europe since then. Allvin is now the amateur scouting director in Pittsburgh.

Patrik Allvin at eliteprospects.com

 

[montreal]

I'm wondering if Shane Churla isn't partially responsible for Timmins' record apparently coming out of the drafting abyss. Churla joined the staff in 2013 so let's discount the 2013 draft year.

it's been suggested a few times but no one really knows what impact or pull he has in the room so we can only guess. When you have picks like McCarron, Crisp, Pezzetta, Koberstein, Lernout, Addison, were they pushed for by Churla since they fit the kind of player he was to some degree or just a reach for size/grit/toughness that backfired. It's not to say that Timmins doesn't draft these types since he has with Tinordi, Bonneau, Conboy, Greg Stewart (though not big) but that's 4 over 10 years vs 6 in 4 years.

But it's all just guessing. Maybe Timmins felt they were worth it at the time, maybe MB pushed for more size as Timmins did say they make a mistake in the past going for need ('06, defensemen) and size ('13) but that they learned from that.

That said I think it's safe to assume that something has changed in regards to their drafting philosophy since either '16 or '17 since there at least appears to be much more focus on drafting skilled players although we'll see if that trend continues or not.

 

[1909]

Blais was drafted in a 6th round... Habs had plenty of opportunities to scout and draft him.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Blais was drafted in a 6th round... Habs had plenty of opportunities to scout and draft him.

Too busy drafting Gally in the 5th.

 

[Vachon23]

Blais was drafted in a 6th round... Habs had plenty of opportunities to scout and draft him.

Honestly Blais had played 25 games I think his draft year in the Q. He played the majority of the season in Midget AAA

 

[1909]

Too busy drafting Gally in the 5th.

Gally was drafted in 2010.... Blais in 2014 !

 

[1909]

Honestly Blais had played 25 games I think his draft year in the Q. He played the majority of the season in Midget AAA

Habs prefered Koberstein and Audette in the previous round......

 

[Runner77]

Habs prefered Koberstein and Audette in the previous round......

Ouch.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Gally was drafted in 2010.... Blais in 2014 !

Maybe you missed out on the sarcasm emoji.

Point is fluke draft picks happen sometimes. People who get upset we didn’t draft player A at certain round need to chill. I never heard a single person beat the drums to draft Sammy Blais, in any round, ever. So getting upset over not having drafted an underachieving player his entire career who has ONE career playoff goal and TWO career NHL goals seems a little silly to me. The guy is hardly the second coming of Cam Neely.

 

[Whitesnake]

Maybe you missed out on the sarcasm emoji.

Point is fluke draft picks happen sometimes. People who get upset we didn’t draft player A at certain round need to chill. I never heard a single person beat the drums to draft Sammy Blais, in any round, ever. So getting upset over not having drafted an underachieving player his entire career who has ONE career playoff goal and TWO career NHL goals seems a little silly to me. The guy is hardly the second coming of Cam Neely.

How is Blais an underachiever? And what we thought of him is irrelevant. Scouts are paid the big bucks to find those guys. And if they would not have been busy scouting their own scout son, they probably would have find Blais....and this great project that was Koberstein that like most projects stay....a project. Those 2 picks were awful picks. Even at those spots.

 

[Vachon23]

How is Blais an underachiever? And what we thought of him is irrelevant. Scouts are paid the big bucks to find those guys. And if they would not have been busy scouting their own scout son, they probably would have find Blais....and this great project that was Koberstein that like most projects stay....a project. Those 2 picks were awful picks. Even at those spots.

I never been a big fan of Timmins but on this one I can’t criticize them. I know Blais since he is paying Atome, and I never thought they would be a chance that he could be draft even an invitation to a Camps would have been a surprise for me. Even Blais never thought he would have been draft. The guy was 5’10 160 lbs and was playing Midget AAA. it’s just an incredible gamble by STL and respect to there Q scout. One thing I agree do, our QMJHL Scout are REALLY bad. We have one more then everyone and we can’t make good selection in the Q. Boisvert and Audette should be fired and replace by good hockey man. They are alote of good hockey minds in the Q that would be better then our 2 scouts

 

[Sterling Archer]

How is Blais an underachiever? And what we thought of him is irrelevant. Scouts are paid the big bucks to find those guys. And if they would not have been busy scouting their own scout son, they probably would have find Blais....and this great project that was Koberstein that like most projects stay....a project. Those 2 picks were awful picks. Even at those spots.

Blais has done literally nothing his entire career to warrant any sort of envy from anyone. This is the most ridiculous conversation about a role player as I’ve ever heard. He has 8 games where he’s been physical and now he’s worth trading for Allen and $6MM+ in cap for!? Hahahaha. Wow. These boards have done people absolutely twisted.

As an aside, if you think scouts make “big money” than you either don’t know what they get paid for what they do or need to find a better paying job.

 

[Milhouse40]

Blais has done literally nothing his entire career to warrant any sort of envy from anyone. This is the most ridiculous conversation about a role player as I’ve ever heard. He has 8 games where he’s been physics and now he’s worth trading for Allen and $6MM+ in cap for!? Hahahaha. Wow. These boards have done people absolutely twisted.

As an aside, if you think scouts make “big money” than you either don’t know what they get paid for what they do or need to find a better paying job.

Reminded me 2 years ago, when Nashville was doing well in the PO and Gaudreau scored 3 goals in 8 games and was now like the Habs have missed on a local Wayne Gretzky. But after a season of 4 points in 55 games, nobody talk about him anymore.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Reminded me 2 years ago, when Nashville was doing well in the PO and Gaudreau scored 3 goals in 8 games and was now like the Habs have missed on a local Wayne Gretzky. But after a season of 4 points in 55 games, nobody talk about him anymore.

I’d like this 100 times if I could.

The level of covering other teams players while basking ours feels like an almost all time high these days. Like f***ing chill the f*** out. This is Sammy f***ing Blais we’re talking about. Ffs.

 

[Whitesnake]

I never been a big fan of Timmins but on this one I can’t criticize them. I know Blais since he is paying Atome, and I never thought they would be a chance that he could be draft even an invitation to a Camps would have been a surprise for me. Even Blais never thought he would have been draft. The guy was 5’10 160 lbs and was playing Midget AAA. it’s just an incredible gamble by STL and respect to there Q scout. One thing I agree do, our QMJHL Scout are REALLY bad. We have one more then everyone and we can’t make good selection in the Q. Boisvert and Audette should be fired and replace by good hockey man. They are alote of good hockey minds in the Q that would be better then our 2 scouts

You bring size and yet....I have no idea why they drafted Audette then.....As far as Q scouts are concerned, well yeah. But then....do you know why everybody else goes and not them? It's because I don't think it's important for Timmins to have good ones? He wouldn't listen anyway. Timmins does his own Q scouting. Always in Blainville. And yet....he let Barré-Boulet go and choose Alain. It's not about ONLY Q scouts.....Timmins is front and center in Q scouting too. They just don't care about the league.

 

[Whitesnake]

Blais has done literally nothing his entire career to warrant any sort of envy from anyone. This is the most ridiculous conversation about a role player as I’ve ever heard. He has 8 games where he’s been physics and now he’s worth trading for Allen and $6MM+ in cap for!? Hahahaha. Wow. These boards have done people absolutely twisted.

As an aside, if you think scouts make “big money” than you either don’t know what they get paid for what they do or need to find a better paying job.

Let say...if you compare me, you and them....who is paid more to do the job? Why is it that what WE thought is similarly important to the ones who are paid to do it? You don't think Timmins is paid big bucks?

Then, do you really think that on these boards, the only guys we talk about are top 6 forward and top 4 D? Haven't you been around enough to know that we can waste 2 months on a 13th forward? Also, I'm not the one who brought that Allen thing so respond to the guy, not me. I'm talking about Blais himself and how he was just another Q overlooked kid. Again.

Yet, again, everywhere he has been, he has not underachieved. Obviously you didn't respond to that one 'cause it's not true. He has put the points in the board that he was suppose to.

 

[Whitesnake]

Reminded me 2 years ago, when Nashville was doing well in the PO and Gaudreau scored 3 goals in 8 games and was now like the Habs have missed on a local Wayne Gretzky. But after a season of 4 points in 55 games, nobody talk about him anymore.

Didn't it remind you about how people were down and laughing at Gourde too? Or Marchessault? Or Mantha? Dubois? Chabot? Girard?

 

[Milhouse40]

Didn't it remind you about how people were down and laughing at Gourde too? Or Marchessault? Or Mantha? Dubois? Chabot? Girard?

Should we not be mad about missing out on guys like Kucherov, Point, Theodore or Aho?
Is Joel Teasdale being ignore here?

Missing on players in the Q isn't any different than missing on players in other leagues.

 

[Whitesnake]

Should we not be mad about missing out on guys like Kucherov, Point, Theodore or Aho?
Is Joel Teasdale being ignore here?

Missing on players in the Q isn't any different than missing on players in other leagues.

It is because history shows that we are drafting from everywhere more than we do here. And Timmins, the head scout, is more often than not in a Q building. So he's either showing off and pretending he cares. Or he just misses way more than he hits for the Q. People should just remember that while he doesn't see every guy the 1st time around, what happens in the Q is the best way to know Timmins scouting. I'm often in Blainville. And I see him most of the time. Which means he is also there when I'm not. For most of the other leagues, he refers to his scouts and then go watch a few after. Same in Europe. But in the Q....if he could, he'd fire the 2 clowns we have and do it alone.

Timmins last Q good pick? Latendresse in 2005. Yes, Timmins and Co have to be better everywhere. But it's clear the Q is not a priority. And not even not a priority, it's not something they believe in. They just will choose a random guy in the 5th round to try to shut up people. And when they do, they are even able to miss with this....Gravel was the best player in the 5th round. Or Laferrière.

No. Teasdale is not ignored. He does well and we will see what he is about. Would be the first one since Latendresse to play a role with our team. Not sure how that's enough....

 

[Sterling Archer]

Let say...if you compare me, you and them....who is paid more to do the job? Why is it that what WE thought is similarly important to the ones who are paid to do it? You don't think Timmins is paid big bucks?

Then, do you really think that on these boards, the only guys we talk about are top 6 forward and top 4 D? Haven't you been around enough to know that we can waste 2 months on a 13th forward? Also, I'm not the one who brought that Allen thing so respond to the guy, not me. I'm talking about Blais himself and how he was just another Q overlooked kid. Again.

Yet, again, everywhere he has been, he has not underachieved. Obviously you didn't respond to that one 'cause it's not true. He has put the points in the board that he was suppose to.

Timmins isn't a scout. He's the assistant GM which is a VERY different paycheck than an amateur scout.

Secondly, doesn't Bergevin usually get blasted for going after grinders and 4th liners?

Finally, SAMMY BLAIS! Are you really going to argue for SAMMY BLAIS????? Jesus....

 

[Vachon23]

Reminded me 2 years ago, when Nashville was doing well in the PO and Gaudreau scored 3 goals in 8 games and was now like the Habs have missed on a local Wayne Gretzky. But after a season of 4 points in 55 games, nobody talk about him anymore.

I don’t see the comparison. I’m not saying Blais is a futur top 6 but he has good bottom upside

 

[Whitesnake]

Timmins isn't a scout. He's the assistant GM which is a VERY different paycheck than an amateur scout.

Secondly, doesn't Bergevin usually get blasted for going after grinders and 4th liners?

Finally, SAMMY BLAIS! Are you really going to argue for SAMMY BLAIS????? Jesus....

When Timmins was JUST a director of amateur scouting, he was still paid the big bucks. Then, you only know you pick grinders and 4th liners ONCE they reach the NHL. Don't look but most NHl grinders were offensive players in Juniors. So picking Blais at the time was not about going for a grinder.

Then, I'm saying that just like the rest of his Q picks, he doesn't care and doesn't know the league hence his record prooves it, Lats being the last Q pick that could have had a nice career. I argue about Blais, like I argued about Paquette, like I argued about Barré-Boulet, like I did for Marchessault, or Gourde...we argue 'cause this is a forum that covers from every NHL players to AHL players. You are making a big case because it's Sammy Blais. I'm not. Just saying that even if Blais just hpapens to be a 4th liner for life, don't look, but maybe, just maybe, in 7 years, we MIGHT have a 4th line that makes sense next September. Might just be a 4th liner...but seems awfully tough to find if your name is Bergevin.....even if it's mostly what he did since he's here.