Trevor Timmins Discussion Part III

[jaffy27]

Timmins sainthood.... He failed more often than he succeeded over long periods of time.

Sounds like the story of every pro scout......no doubt there was a long stretch there where there was nothing but I believe that is more the fault of management in the sense where they wanted to go the college route.

Along our recent ECHLers Pezzetta, M. Bradley, Fucale, Crisp, Thrower, Vail... (all draft picks since Bergevin took over).

Audette, S. Bourque and Addison should have played in ECHL too.

Pick a team and I’ll chalk up a list of players 4 times the length

 

[Agalloch]

Pick a team and I’ll chalk up a list of players 4 times the length

I agree. That's not that much a of problem with me.... the problem is to draft players having a ceiling of ECHLer like Pezzetta and Koberstein.

 

[montreal]

I agree. That's not that much a of problem with me.... the problem is to draft players having a ceiling of ECHLer like Pezzetta and Koberstein.

well they have yet to play a pro game but clearly the size thing was more in favor there. In 2 years they had Pezzetta, Koberstein, McCarron, DLR, Crisp. I have wondered if Churla had a hand in this since they fit more the kind of player he was. But that's just wild speculation. It's those high picks that really hurt to miss on, DLR, Fucale, Collberg, Thrower, Tinordi, Leblanc, etc... plus if McCarron busts. Although it's looking very clear that '12 is looking like a poor draft class and '13 not much better (league wide not just the Habs)

 

[EXPOS123]

Here is a complete list of all the players drafted from 2008-2016.

Mikhail Sergachev

William Bitten

Victor Mete

Casey Staum

Michael Pezzetta

Arvid Henrikson

Noah Juulsen

Lukas Vejdemo

Matt Bradley

Simon Bourque

Jeremiah Addison

Nikita Scherbak

Brett Lernout

Nikolas Koberstein

Daniel Audette

Hayden Hawkey

Jake Evans

Michael McCarron

Jacob De La Rose

Zachary Fucale

Artturi Lehkonen

Connor Crisp

Sven Andrighetto

Martin Reway

Jeremy Gregoire

Alex Galchenyuk

Sebastian Collberg

Dalton Thrower

Tim Bozon

Brady Vail

Charles Hudon

Erik Nystrom

Nathan Beaulieu

Josiah Didier

Olivier Archambault

Magnus Nygren

Darren Dietz

Daniel Pribyl

Colin Sullivan

Jarred Tinordi

Mark MacMillan

Morgan Ellis

Brendan Gallagher

John Westin

Louis Leblanc

Joonas Nattinen

Mac Bennett

Alexander Avtsin

Gabriel Dumont

Dustin Walsh

Mike Cichy

Petteri Simila

Danny Kristo

Steve Quailer

Jason Missiaen

Maxim Trunev

Patrick Johnson

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Out of a total of 57 players drafted, I count only 5 (Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Juhlsen) that have made an impact at the NHL level. ( For the record, i'm not a believer in Mete).

The rest either never made it or their impact is/was so negligible (Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dumont) that we may as well call them busts too.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - how Timmins still has a job is beyond my comprehension.

And then people wonder why we've been as pathetic as we've been?

 

[montreal]

Here is a complete list of all the players drafted from 2008-2016.

Out of a total of 57 players drafted, I count only 5 (Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Juhlsen) that have made an impact at the NHL level. ( For the record, i'm not a believer in Mete).

The rest either never made it or their impact is/was so negligible (Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dumont) that we may as well call them busts too.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - how Timmins still has a job is beyond my comprehension.

And then people wonder why we've been as pathetic as we've been?

Poor development, poor asset management. You don't trade guys like McDonagh, Subban, Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Pac, unless you get a return that makes it worth trading them. That's a lot of skill to trade away. It remains to be seen how that unfolds, then there's the development of lack of over the last 6 years. Rushing kids to the NHL, yo-yoing them, having 2 NHL coaches that seem to be cut from the same cloth in that old school you must defend and grind, screw skill.

Then factor the drafts, '08 no pick in the top 55, '09 1 pick in the top 64, '10 1 pick in the top 112, '11 1 pick in the top 96.

In '12 we should have done better, Galchenyuk and Hudon for one draft isn't bad but when you consider that the '12 draft overall isn't looking very strong it looks better for Timmins.

Same for '13 although still questions that will need more time to answer. The overall draft isn't looking very good but for some reason we seem to be trying to acquire as many players from that class as possible. We should have hit big, now we have to hope on Lehkonen and maybe McCarron (I wouldn't write him off yet).

'14 same as before 1 top 72 pick, but what happens as Scherbak is a total wild card. Some think he's nothing but a bust, others think he has good skills but injuries and poor development have hampered him. He's missed more then a full season of his 3 years in the AHL. There's still Lernout, Evans, Hawkey who could do something. I thought Hawkey was one of our more underrated prospects, Evans might need another year in the AHL.

'15 same story, 5 picks 1 top 86 pick.

'16 1 top 69 pick. Mete who knows since they could have handled his development better, Bitten I think plays some NHL games down the road but we'll see.

 

[scrubadam]

Here is a complete list of all the players drafted from 2008-2016.

Mikhail Sergachev

William Bitten

Victor Mete

Casey Staum

Michael Pezzetta

Arvid Henrikson

Noah Juulsen

Lukas Vejdemo

Matt Bradley

Simon Bourque

Jeremiah Addison

Nikita Scherbak

Brett Lernout

Nikolas Koberstein

Daniel Audette

Hayden Hawkey

Jake Evans

Michael McCarron

Jacob De La Rose

Zachary Fucale

Artturi Lehkonen

Connor Crisp

Sven Andrighetto

Martin Reway

Jeremy Gregoire

Alex Galchenyuk

Sebastian Collberg

Dalton Thrower

Tim Bozon

Brady Vail

Charles Hudon

Erik Nystrom

Nathan Beaulieu

Josiah Didier

Olivier Archambault

Magnus Nygren

Darren Dietz

Daniel Pribyl

Colin Sullivan

Jarred Tinordi

Mark MacMillan

Morgan Ellis

Brendan Gallagher

John Westin

Louis Leblanc

Joonas Nattinen

Mac Bennett

Alexander Avtsin

Gabriel Dumont

Dustin Walsh

Mike Cichy

Petteri Simila

Danny Kristo

Steve Quailer

Jason Missiaen

Maxim Trunev

Patrick Johnson

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Out of a total of 57 players drafted, I count only 5 (Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Juhlsen) that have made an impact at the NHL level. ( For the record, i'm not a believer in Mete).

The rest either never made it or their impact is/was so negligible (Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dumont) that we may as well call them busts too.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - how Timmins still has a job is beyond my comprehension.

And then people wonder why we've been as pathetic as we've been?

Well TT isn't head of scouting anymore, he is the AGM. So on a technical level he doesn't have that job anymore.

Great for getting Dmen, but he missed so many Centers along the way.

 

[26Mats]

Here is a complete list of all the players drafted from 2008-2016.

Mikhail Sergachev

William Bitten

Victor Mete

Casey Staum

Michael Pezzetta

Arvid Henrikson

Noah Juulsen

Lukas Vejdemo

Matt Bradley

Simon Bourque

Jeremiah Addison

Nikita Scherbak

Brett Lernout

Nikolas Koberstein

Daniel Audette

Hayden Hawkey

Jake Evans

Michael McCarron

Jacob De La Rose

Zachary Fucale

Artturi Lehkonen

Connor Crisp

Sven Andrighetto

Martin Reway

Jeremy Gregoire

Alex Galchenyuk

Sebastian Collberg

Dalton Thrower

Tim Bozon

Brady Vail

Charles Hudon

Erik Nystrom

Nathan Beaulieu

Josiah Didier

Olivier Archambault

Magnus Nygren

Darren Dietz

Daniel Pribyl

Colin Sullivan

Jarred Tinordi

Mark MacMillan

Morgan Ellis

Brendan Gallagher

John Westin

Louis Leblanc

Joonas Nattinen

Mac Bennett

Alexander Avtsin

Gabriel Dumont

Dustin Walsh

Mike Cichy

Petteri Simila

Danny Kristo

Steve Quailer

Jason Missiaen

Maxim Trunev

Patrick Johnson

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Out of a total of 57 players drafted, I count only 5 (Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Juhlsen) that have made an impact at the NHL level. ( For the record, i'm not a believer in Mete).

The rest either never made it or their impact is/was so negligible (Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dumont) that we may as well call them busts too.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - how Timmins still has a job is beyond my comprehension.

And then people wonder why we've been as pathetic as we've been?

Yeah let's conveniently start in 2008, right after one of the best draft years in scouting history (Subban, McDonagh, Pacioretty, and Y. Weber), and right after he made the gutsy move to draft price in 2005 over Gilbert Brule, et al...

Way to be objective.

If you want to be objective either look at every year from the start or leave out the good years 2003-2007 and the bad years 2008-2011, i.e. do 2012-2016.

 

[EXPOS123]

Way to be objective.

If you want to be objective either look at every year from the start or leave out the good years 2003-2007 and the bad years 2008-2011, i.e. do 2012-2016.

So by your logic, i should walk into my boss's office and say "hey, i've done a shitt job for you over for the past 8 years but remember that one year i did a really good job - well that means you should keep me forever and give me a promotion!."

Please...people praising Timmins for his one good draft while ignoring his other 10 piss poor ones is asinine.

I don't care what draft position we were in - the fact is only 5 out of 57 he drafted made any kind of impact in the years i indicated, of which i am being very generous with the word "impact".

 

[montreal]

So by your logic, i should walk into my boss's office and say "hey, i've done a ****t job for you over for the past 8 years but remember that one year i did a really good job - well that means you should keep me forever and give me a promotion!."

Please...people praising Timmins for his one good draft while ignoring his other 10 piss poor ones is asinine.

I don't care what draft position we were in - the fact is only 5 out of 57 he drafted made any kind of impact in the years i indicated, of which i am being very generous with the word "impact".

If you don't care what draft position we have been in or how many picks then you should focus on other things. Take a look at the odds of NHL draft picks after the top 10, 20, 30. The odds are very much stacked against you if you don't have many top 5, 10, 20, 30 picks or when you do finally get them they are in weak draft years.

Then factor in piss poor development. Timmins record when picking top 10/15 picks is spot on aside from his rookie year when he missed on the draft of a life time with a pick that had it been a normal year wouldn't be bad at all.

It's not his fault Subban, Sergachev, McDonagh, were traded. He's not the one putting ECHLers on McCarron's wings, or moving Scherbak to center just after returning from 2 major injuries and then moving him to another new position and then back to RW all in a few months. Then putting him on a line with Audette, the two youngest forwards on the team and two that had weak defensive games.

He didn't rush DLR, Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc, McCarron to the NHL. He didn't put Galchenyuk on the 4th line, put him with DLR, couldn't figure out what position he should be.

Yes he's made his fair share of mistakes, every scout has. Maybe we could find a better scout, maybe Churla needs to go, maybe both need to go. Imo the bigger problems are MB, Molson, CJ. If you don't fix them first then what's the point of trying to fire Timmins if we are just going to rush all our top picks?

 

[The Great Weal]

I think everyone agrees that we need to build for the future. People who argue that we can get our great players in the future with mid picks too are also 100% correct. However, here is a look at Timmins draft record with 1sts:
2009: Leblanc(bust)
2010: Tinordi(bust)
2011: Beaulieu(bust)
2012: Galchenyuk(didn't work out with us but still a good pick)
2013: McCarron(bust)
2014: Scherbak(bust)
2015: Juulsen(good pick, no complaints)
2016: Sergachev(good pick even though McAvoy looks MUCH better)
2017: Poehling(solid pick, but considering all the great players that went after him, nothing fantastic)
2018: Kotkaniemi(good pick)

Even if he looks better lately, Juulsen and Poehling have ways to go before becoming great players for a cup run. Whereas he has done very well with top 10 picks.

 

[montreal]

I think everyone agrees that we need to build for the future. People who argue that we can get our great players in the future with mid picks too are also 100% correct. However, here is a look at Timmins draft record with 1sts:
2009: Leblanc(bust)
2010: Tinordi(bust)
2011: Beaulieu(bust)
2012: Galchenyuk(didn't work out with us but still a good pick)
2013: McCarron(bust)
2014: Scherbak(bust)
2015: Juulsen(good pick, no complaints)
2016: Sergachev(good pick even though McAvoy looks MUCH better)
2017: Poehling(solid pick, but considering all the great players that went after him, nothing fantastic)
2018: Kotkaniemi(good pick)

Even if he looks better lately, Juulsen and Poehling have ways to go before becoming great players for a cup run. Whereas he has done very well with top 10 picks.

They should of hired him before '08.

Leblanc was doing fine in the NHL at 20

Beaulieu puts up 29 pts with us

Galchenyuk is still one of the best players from that what looks like a weak draft class overall

McCarron might be a bust, but he's playing much better then last year. Still think he can be a 4th liner in a year or two.

Scherbak we'll see, this one will hurt if he busts as he's got the skill but had terrible development. I mean like the definition of how not to develop a skilled player.

Juulsen was a safe bet to make the NHL.

Sergachev is looking like a great pick, inflated a bit by TB being so good but still.

Poehling just way too early to say one way or the other

 

[Chili]

Blue chip prospects in the Hockey News Prospect unlimited issue and where drafted: (as per a panel of scouts)

Ana: Isac Lundestrom 23rd/2018, Troy Terry 148th/2015, Max Jones 24th/2016, Jacob Larsson 27th/2015
Arz: Barrett Hayton 5/2018, Nick Merkley 30/2015, Pierre Olivier Joseph 23/2017
Bos: J Forsbacka-Karlsson 45/2015
Buf: Rasmus Apland 33/2016, Marcus Davidsson 37/2017, Alexander Nylander 8/2016, Brendan Guhle 51/2015
Cal: Tyler Parsons 54/2016
Car: Jake Bean 13/2016, Adam Fox 66/2016
Chi: Dylan Sikura 178/2014, Nicolas Beaudin 27/2018, Adam Boqvist 8/2018, Ian Mitchell 57/2017
Col: Martin Kaut 16/2018, Cale Makar 4/2017, Conor Timmins 32/2017
Clb: Liam Foudy 18/2018, Alexandre Texier 45/2017, Jonathan Davidsson 170/2017
Dal: Ty Dellandrea 13/2018, Denis Gurianov 12/2015
Det: Joe Veleno 30/2018, Jonathan Bergren 33/2018, Filip Zadina 6/2018, Jared McIsaac 36/2018
Edm: none
Fla: Henrik Borgstrom 23/2016, Aleksi Heponiemi 40/2017, Grigori Denisenko 15/2018, Owen Tippett 10/2017
LA: Rasmus Kupari 20/2018, Gabe Vilardi 11/2017, Kale Clague 51/2016
Min: Kirill Kaprizov 135/2015, Filip Johansson 24/2018
Mtl: Ryan Poehling 25/2017, Nick Suzuki 13/2017
Nas: Eeeli Tolvanen 30/2017, Dante Fabbro 17/2016
NJ: Michael McLeod 12/2016, Ty Smith 17/2018
NYI: Kieffer Bellows 19/2016, Oliver Wahlstrom 11/2018, Noah Dobson 12/2018, Ilya Sorokin 78/2014
NYR: L Andersson 7/2017, V Kravtsov 9/2018, L Hajek 37/2016, N Lundkvist 28/2018, K'A Miller 22/2018, I Shesterkin 118/2014
Ott: L Brown 11/2016, J Norris 19/2017, D Batherson 121/2017, J Bernard-Docker 26/2018, F Gustavsson 55/2016
Phil: M Frost 27/2017, J O'Brien 19/2018, G Rubtsov 22/2016, J Farabee 14/2018, P Myers UFA, C Hart 48/2016
Pit: none
STL: Dominik Bokk 25/2018, Klim Kostin 31/2017
SJ: Ryan Merkley 21/2018
TB: Boris Katchouk 44/2016, Taylor Raddysh 58/2016, Cal Foote 14/2017
Tor: Carl Grundstrom 57/2016, Timothy Liljegren 17/2017, Rasmus Sandin 29/2018
Van: A Gaudette 149/2015, J Dahlen 42/2016, Q Hughes 7/2018, O Juolevi 5/2016, T Demko 36/2014
Veg: Cody Glass 6/2017, Erik Brannstrom 15/2017, Nic Hague 34/2017
Was: Alexander Alexeyev 31/2018, Jonas Siegenthaler 57/2015, Ilya Samsonov 22/2015
Win: Dylan Samberg 43/2017

The 88 'blue chip' prospects not in the NHL according to the survey, among them only 9 top ten picks.

They also ranked the organizations complete rosters.

Habs goaltending depth (Price, Niemi, Lindgren, McNiven, Primeau) got the highest rating of all teams(A-).

Habs dmen tied for the lowest with Detroit and Ottawa (C-)

Habs forwards also tied for the worst with Detroit and the Rangers (C)

They might be pointed in the right direction now but still a long way to go.

 

[26Mats]

So by your logic, i should walk into my boss's office and say "hey, i've done a ****t job for you over for the past 8 years but remember that one year i did a really good job - well that means you should keep me forever and give me a promotion!."

Please...people praising Timmins for his one good draft while ignoring his other 10 piss poor ones is asinine.

I don't care what draft position we were in - the fact is only 5 out of 57 he drafted made any kind of impact in the years i indicated, of which i am being very generous with the word "impact".

Yeah that 2007 draft is looking really good. Too bad he never got a single player outside of it. But that 2007 draft, what a draft. He got all the following players in that single draft. Amazing!

Price
Halak
(Cayden Primeau on the way)

Subban
McDonagh
Sergachev
Streit (62 point all star dman)
Mete
Juulsen
Y. Weber
Beaulieu
Emelin
(Brook, Fleury, Tsyka, etc... on the way)

Kotkaniemi
Galchenyuk
Gallagher
Pacioretty
Lehkonen
Hudon
Andrighetto
Grabovski
Latendresse
A. Kostitsyn
(Poehling, Ikonen, Ylonen, Olofsson, Fonstad, McShane, etc... on the way)


And actually he did a great job the first 5 years (2003-2007). The next 4 years sucked (2008-2011) - (combo of trading away too many seconds, drafting for size, and bad picks), and has done a great job the last 5 years that we can evaluate (2012-2016). Plus 2018 is already looking great and 2017 has good potential. You're allowing your analysis to be skewed by 4 out of 14 years. But I'm wasting my breath trying to explain that to you.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Here is a complete list of all the players drafted from 2008-2016.

Mikhail Sergachev

William Bitten

Victor Mete

Casey Staum

Michael Pezzetta

Arvid Henrikson

Noah Juulsen

Lukas Vejdemo

Matt Bradley

Simon Bourque

Jeremiah Addison

Nikita Scherbak

Brett Lernout

Nikolas Koberstein

Daniel Audette

Hayden Hawkey

Jake Evans

Michael McCarron

Jacob De La Rose

Zachary Fucale

Artturi Lehkonen

Connor Crisp

Sven Andrighetto

Martin Reway

Jeremy Gregoire

Alex Galchenyuk

Sebastian Collberg

Dalton Thrower

Tim Bozon

Brady Vail

Charles Hudon

Erik Nystrom

Nathan Beaulieu

Josiah Didier

Olivier Archambault

Magnus Nygren

Darren Dietz

Daniel Pribyl

Colin Sullivan

Jarred Tinordi

Mark MacMillan

Morgan Ellis

Brendan Gallagher

John Westin

Louis Leblanc

Joonas Nattinen

Mac Bennett

Alexander Avtsin

Gabriel Dumont

Dustin Walsh

Mike Cichy

Petteri Simila

Danny Kristo

Steve Quailer

Jason Missiaen

Maxim Trunev

Patrick Johnson

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Out of a total of 57 players drafted, I count only 5 (Sergachev, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Lehkonen and Juhlsen) that have made an impact at the NHL level. ( For the record, i'm not a believer in Mete).

The rest either never made it or their impact is/was so negligible (Andrighetto, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Dumont) that we may as well call them busts too.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - how Timmins still has a job is beyond my comprehension.

And then people wonder why we've been as pathetic as we've been?

Listing names and not looking at quantity and quality of draft position don't hold any value in what you are trying to tell us. We are definitely not the top drafting team but based on where we have picked and the quantity of picks, we are on the NHL average.

In truth, teams that draft well have many top 100 picks and a few top 10 hits. It's not rocket science.

I think you are ignoring how TT hands were tied based on what his GM did.

 

[dcyhabs]

You have to consider the options. There were better players than Beaulieu picked later but most were much later. He was the best of the players picked from his spot until the second round. Lots of better players, Saad, Kucherov, etc. but most were picked a lot later.

Drafting is point in time. When a guy picked in the fifth or sixth round becomes a star it's either because a lot of scouts missed or because he changed big time. Some guys do, but it's hard to predict. You can't expect perfect picks, but you want to do OK with your top picks and get some guys to work out in the late rounds.

The habs had some bad picks at the top, but some of the drafts were weak. Beaulieu and Galchenyuk were good picks at the time, a lot of the failures were media picks. Tinordi was a big name, McDonagh wasn't. Based on trades and picks I think that MB is a bit too focused on media evaluations and initial draft position, or it could be the scouts... Either way they should do more advanced stats and watch less sportsnet.

 

[Whitesnake]

As of today, I know, it's young, but most prospects that we've chosen are dissapointing. Offensively only Brook and Poehling are up to par to where they should be. Stapley is surprisingly good too. Everybody else are below standards including Primeau. You had to expect more from Hillis, McShane and Fondstad. At one point, Ylonen has to step up more. While some weren't exactly suppose to light it up like Gorniak and Harris and Walford, you still will want to see more at least starting next year. But to this day, nothing is earth shattering in that supposed awesome draft classes of ours.

But we do have at least 3 guys that should play a key part in our organization in Brook, Poehling and Suzuki. But we have to expect more. I mean, I was told that the depth was SO much better than it ever was.....

As far as Romanov is concerned...we have to put things in perspective. Awesome feature to have made the KHl at such a young age but....he's clearly not dominating when he's playing against kids of his own age. So what does it tell you? He needs better players to play better? The KHL team that is using him has actually not a lot of depth, hence why they use him? Remains to be seen. I haven't seen a whole lot from him so far at all. And mostly bad IQ that's what I've seen. We talk about bad decisions in forcing the play...well Romanov does quite a few of those. 2 things I'm impressed by him is his agility and how strong he is on his lower body. That hit Serron Noel tried to give him was a piece of art.

But it still remains to be seen if 2018 was actually a great draft or.....filled with great names the way 2012 was....Nobody is a bust though. Never that soon.

 

[Agalloch]

As of today, I know, it's young, but most prospects that we've chosen are dissapointing. Offensively only Brook and Poehling are up to par to where they should be. Stapley is surprisingly good too. Everybody else are below standards including Primeau. You had to expect more from Hillis, McShane and Fondstad. At one point, Ylonen has to step up more. While some weren't exactly suppose to light it up like Gorniak and Harris and Walford, you still will want to see more at least starting next year. But to this day, nothing is earth shattering in that supposed awesome draft classes of ours.

But we do have at least 3 guys that should play a key part in our organization in Brook, Poehling and Suzuki. But we have to expect more. I mean, I was told that the depth was SO much better than it ever was.....

As far as Romanov is concerned...we have to put things in perspective. Awesome feature to have made the KHl at such a young age but....he's clearly not dominating when he's playing against kids of his own age. So what does it tell you? He needs better players to play better? The KHL team that is using him has actually not a lot of depth, hence why they use him? Remains to be seen. I haven't seen a whole lot from him so far at all. And mostly bad IQ that's what I've seen. We talk about bad decisions in forcing the play...well Romanov does quite a few of those. 2 things I'm impressed by him is his agility and how strong he is on his lower body. That hit Serron Noel tried to give him was a piece of art.

But it still remains to be seen if 2018 was actually a great draft or.....filled with great names the way 2012 was....Nobody is a bust though. Never that soon.

If you draft 1-2 NHLers per draft, it's a solid draft. Kotkaniemi, Olofsson, Romanov & Ylonen is solid.

2017 : Poehling, Brook, Fleury and Primeau

2016 : Sergachev (Drouin), Mete

2015: Juulsen, Vejdemo(long shot but still)

2014: Bad draft but chance with Evans

2013: Lehkonen

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

As of today, I know, it's young, but most prospects that we've chosen are dissapointing. Offensively only Brook and Poehling are up to par to where they should be. Stapley is surprisingly good too. Everybody else are below standards including Primeau. You had to expect more from Hillis, McShane and Fondstad. At one point, Ylonen has to step up more. While some weren't exactly suppose to light it up like Gorniak and Harris and Walford, you still will want to see more at least starting next year. But to this day, nothing is earth shattering in that supposed awesome draft classes of ours.

But we do have at least 3 guys that should play a key part in our organization in Brook, Poehling and Suzuki. But we have to expect more. I mean, I was told that the depth was SO much better than it ever was.....

As far as Romanov is concerned...we have to put things in perspective. Awesome feature to have made the KHl at such a young age but....he's clearly not dominating when he's playing against kids of his own age. So what does it tell you? He needs better players to play better? The KHL team that is using him has actually not a lot of depth, hence why they use him? Remains to be seen. I haven't seen a whole lot from him so far at all. And mostly bad IQ that's what I've seen. We talk about bad decisions in forcing the play...well Romanov does quite a few of those. 2 things I'm impressed by him is his agility and how strong he is on his lower body. That hit Serron Noel tried to give him was a piece of art.

But it still remains to be seen if 2018 was actually a great draft or.....filled with great names the way 2012 was....Nobody is a bust though. Never that soon.

If we come out of 2017 with just Brook and Poehling that would likely still be a really good draft. You also didn't mention Fleury who's doing quite well. Those 3 alone make it a really goood draft. Plus Primeau had an insane year. He's a bit below that now. He's only 10 games in. He can still pick it up. You can't write him off yet. That's 4 really solid prospects. Tyszka and Ikonen are injured. Walford isn't producing much more but it sounds like he's a bit better. 2017 looks fine.

2018 I've know idea why you didn't mention the crown jewel. That was kind of a good pick lol. I'm not super high on Romanov. I think he's been a bit overhyped. Offensively I doubt he's anything special. Still there's obviously something there. Junior showcases we all know aren't the greatest evaluators. You're taking the most cynical view with him right now. Ylonen's dissappointing but still oozes skill and has shown some improvement.

Olofsson's had a pretty solid start whom you also didn't mention. The 3 CHLers have been dissappointing though. Harris has been getting rave reviews and playing on a first pairing as a freshman.

I just find this the most cynical appraisal of the last two drafts you could have. We have many that are disappointing but all in all you really can't be upset with these 2 drafts.

 

[Whitesnake]

If you draft 1-2 NHLers per draft, it's a solid draft. Kotkaniemi, Olofsson, Romanov & Ylonen is solid.

2017 : Poehling, Brook, Fleury and Primeau

2016 : Sergachev (Drouin), Mete

2015: Juulsen, Vejdemo(long shot but still)

2014: Bad draft but chance with Evans

2013: Lehkonen

Well first, I don't agree. We've excused Timmins in some years because of his lack of picks. Now...even if he has a boatload of them, only having 1 or 2 NHL'ers is enough? And you said NHL'ers so they actually can make the NHL without being key players and that's enough? And you claim that 2018 is already seen as solid naming 3 guys that haven't reached the NHL? Just saying....2012 was solid too. Real solid.

 

[Agalloch]

Well first, I don't agree. We've excused Timmins in some years because of his lack of picks. Now...even if he has a boatload of them, only having 1 or 2 NHL'ers is enough? And you said NHL'ers so they actually can make the NHL without being key players and that's enough? And you claim that 2018 is already seen as solid naming 3 guys that haven't reached the NHL? Just saying....2012 was solid too. Real solid.

2012 with 2 NHLers is a good draft. Maybe my standard are too low and yours too high but go check other teams.

 

[Whitesnake]

If we come out of 2017 with just Brook and Poehling that would likely still be a really good draft. You also didn't mention Fleury who's doing quite well. Those 3 alone make it a really goood draft. Plus Primeau had an insane year. He's a bit below that now. He's only 10 games in. He can still pick it up. You can't write him off yet. That's 4 really solid prospects. Tyszka and Ikonen are injured. Walford isn't producing much more but it sounds like he's a bit better. 2017 looks fine.

2018 I've know idea why you didn't mention the crown jewel. That was kind of a good pick lol. I'm not super high on Romanov. I think he's been a bit overhyped. Offensively I doubt he's anything special. Still there's obviously something there. Junior showcases we all know aren't the greatest evaluators. You're taking the most cynical view with him right now. Ylonen's dissappointing but still oozes skill and has shown some improvement.

Olofsson's had a pretty solid start whom you also didn't mention. The 3 CHLers have been dissappointing though. Harris has been getting rave reviews and playing on a first pairing as a freshman.

I just find this the most cynical appraisal of the last two drafts you could have. We have many that are disappointing but all in all you really can't be upset with these 2 drafts.

In the CHL/Prospects thread, I'm talking about prospects. Yes, Fleury is fine too. But we will see his ceiling. Some thought Juulsen was most definately a top 4 not that long ago...now...are people so sure about that? Or his limited skill set makes him more a 3rd pairing d-man?

By the way, Brook, Poehling and Fleury makes it WHAT APPEARS to be a good draft. 2012 was also a great draft until....it wasn't. AS far as Primeau is concerned....my god, do people have a tough time to read. For you and others of your kind, I took the time to say at the end of my post...NOBODY IS A BUST...THAT'S WAY TOO SOON. So who is writing Primeau off?

As far as Kotkaniemi, yeah, he is a good pick. But somehow, if you don't mention how Chicago is great at picking Kane, or Toews, etc., well it means that the greatness of a draft shouldn't be judged by the obvious, but more by the rest of it. Yeah, I know, Kotkaniemi was not THAT obvious. But he was still climbing the ranks, and because of our poor depth at C, Kotknamiemi was THE pick to make...as I said myself prior to the draft. Olofsson, offensively, is not bad but he's not racking it up either.

My main point was to say that people are incredibly fast to call a draft crazy good. And don't remember what we thought of 2012. And what I'm talking about right now is the assessment of what we are seeing NOW. Not at the time of the draft. Not in 5 years. Now. I think that overall, it's been a dissapointing pool. But they SURELY can pick it up. As I hope so for myself as I also happened to PRAISE the drafts when they happened. Except for a few guys that I hope I,ll eat crow for, like Romanov, Harris and Walford.

 

[Whitesnake]

2012 with 2 NHLers is a good draft. Maybe my standard are too low and yours too hight but go check other teams.

4 picks out of a top 65. And what you have to show for is the success of a top 3 pick, which is usually what happen to EVERY TEAM, and a /No122 who is STILL to this day not a regular NHL'er.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

In the CHL/Prospects thread, I'm talking about prospects. Yes, Fleury is fine too. But we will see his ceiling. Some thought Juulsen was most definately a top 4 not that long ago...now...are people so sure about that? Or his limited skill set makes him more a 3rd pairing d-man?

By the way, Brook, Poehling and Fleury makes it WHAT APPEARS to be a good draft. 2012 was also a great draft until....it wasn't. AS far as Primeau is concerned....my god, do people have a tough time to read. For you and others of your kind, I took the time to say at the end of my post...NOBODY IS A BUST...THAT'S WAY TOO SOON. So who is writing Primeau off?

As far as Kotkaniemi, yeah, he is a good pick. But somehow, if you don't mention how Chicago is great at picking Kane, or Toews, etc., well it means that the greatness of a draft shouldn't be judged by the obvious, but more by the rest of it. Yeah, I know, Kotkaniemi was not THAT obvious. But he was still climbing the ranks, and because of our poor depth at C, Kotknamiemi was THE pick to make...as I said myself prior to the draft. Olofsson, offensively, is not bad but he's not racking it up either.

My main point was to say that people are incredibly fast to call a draft crazy good. And don't remember what we thought of 2012. And what I'm talking about right now is the assessment of what we are seeing NOW. Not at the time of the draft. Not in 5 years. Now. I think that overall, it's been a dissapointing pool. But they SURELY can pick it up. As I hope so for myself as I also happened to PRAISE the drafts when they happened. Except for a few guys that I hope I,ll eat crow for, like Romanov, Harris and Walford.

Juulsen's been very good. Better than we thought. Not all top 4 guys are offensive dynamos. He's actually shown more than I thought he would at this point offensively. Odd example. Fleury likely has more offensive upside. He's likely pacing better than Juulsen did. And if you're going to talk about our draft class as a whole of the last 2 years I'm sure it's okay if you mention the guys on the farm and in the pros.

2017 is looking better than 2012 did at the same point. At least player for player wise. Thrower busted hard and fast. By this time we were questioning Collberg's upside. Bozon wasn't showing much improvement from what I remember. It was really Galchenyuk and Hudon. And what's with the 'you people' comment lol. I'm sorry I should've said 'write off Primeau's potential.'

It's hard to take that Kotka comment on because you're kind of going at it from both sides. You mooted your Chicago point yourself. I think it's fair to say it was just that little bit off the board where we can say that was a good pick.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the 2018 class is underperforming. Including the 2017 class when they're generally doing excellent besides Primeau's set back and the ones who are injured is a bit disingenous.

You made 2 points that kind of contradict each other. At first you say our drafting has been disappointing but when I say well 2017 isn't you then say well it APPEARS to be that way. Well of course that all we can go by for now. You're the one making the initial judgement. Saying my appraisal is premature doesn't really make sense when you do the same.

 

[FrankMTL]

4 picks out of a top 65. And what you have to show for is the success of a top 3 pick, which is usually what happen to EVERY TEAM, and a /No122 who is STILL to this day not a regular NHL'er.

I get your point. To be fair, who knows how Bozon would have developed had he not gotten very sick. Also, the draft in general sucked hard in 2012. Not much talent taken past pick 20. Just to show how bad that draft was, Girgensons is 14th in scoring and Mikhail Grigorenko is 30th in scoring for the 2012 draft, and he hasn't played in the NHL since 2016-2017.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well first, I don't agree. We've excused Timmins in some years because of his lack of picks. Now...even if he has a boatload of them, only having 1 or 2 NHL'ers is enough? And you said NHL'ers so they actually can make the NHL without being key players and that's enough? And you claim that 2018 is already seen as solid naming 3 guys that haven't reached the NHL? Just saying....2012 was solid too. Real solid.

In fairness, how many key players could Montreal conceivably have gotten.

Like, we can bemoan Galchenyuk not being the optimal pick in 2012 (although he wasn't a bad pick), but take a gander at TSN's Top U-24 list of players as a baseline and consider who Montreal could have conceivably drafted. Its basically McAvoy (over Sergachev, who is a top U-24 in his own right, but was traded), Aho (over Juulsen), Point (over Scherbak and Lernout), and goalies like Hart and Shestyorkin.

Timmins isn't near the best, but you can't get key players from the draft unless you're really, really good, very lucky, or drafting very high.