Trevor Linden and how to tarnish a legacy

[Hit the post]

I shouldn't have to point out how the farm situation isn't serving the Canucks in either capacity. they're going to be bad, with no depth, and no future.

Bah who cares if the Comets turn into a complete circus...all of our prospects are going to be playing with the parent club immediately right?

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Wow!....when you list it like that, it's one ugly, ugly list of failures....the only other one I might add is the number of draft picks they've squandered in meaningless trades....seconds, thirds and fifth rounders all flushed down the drain....but hopefully this means that never again will posters be able to complain bitterly about how many picks the Nonis-Gillis regimes dealt away....Jimbo has set the bar too high.

I wish gillis and Nonis traded every pick 2006 to 2011 the team would be better off today. luckily they traded a few of them which improved the team at the time. In hindsight if you told me Benning would not draft an Nhl player in rounds 2 to 7 each year and I could get a good nhl player that helped the team and had a ok contract I would,of course trade all those picks for that player. Gillis would have been better off trading all his picks for Higgins type player every year as it turned out until Hutton and Horvat arrived in back to back drafts. Really Horvat should not really count as it was not even our pick. Without it you are looking at Hutton for 6 years of drafting.

 

[Hit the post]

I wish gillis and Nonis traded every pick 2006 to 2011 the team would be better off today. luckily they traded a few of them which improved the team at the time. In hindsight if you told me Benning would not draft an Nhl player in rounds 2 to 7 each year and I could get a good nhl player that helped the team and had a ok contract I would,of course trade all those picks for that player. Gillis would have been better off trading all his picks for Higgins type player every year as it turned out until Hutton and Horvat arrived in back to back drafts. Really Horvat should not really count as it was not even our pick. Without it you are looking at Hutton for 6 years of drafting.

Amateur scouting netted us Tanev as well.

 

[Shareefruck]

The only thing more frustrating about the Linden/Benning/Desjardins era is the fact that there are miraculously still people defending the job they're doing.

Similarly, the only thing more frustrating than watching Sbisa play is the fact that there are still people who think he's a competent defenseman.

 

[Fat Tony]

Really Horvat should not really count as it was not even our pick.

Huh?!? Is this part of some weird internal rationalization for the trade deadline fiasco?

 

[VanJack]

The only thing more frustrating about the Linden/Benning/Desjardins era is the fact that there are miraculously still people defending the job they're doing.

Similarly, the only thing more frustrating than watching Sbisa play is the fact that there are still people who think he's a competent defenseman.

That's my complaint exactly, but what really bothers me is the double-standard that seems to be in play with some players...the same guys can make mistake after mistake and they keep getting thrown out there (ie. Sbisa, Dorsett and Vey)....meanwhile other guys make just one blunder and they're parked....seems to be no accountability with this franchise from the bench to the executive suite.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

The thing is, I really can't see much good in what Linden has done here. The regime has been absolutely awful to the point they can be realistically compared to JFJ, Kevin Lowe, and Mike Milbury.

Those were failed regimes this one is this in process I know you believe it is failed but that has not been proven yet. This person like you assumes it has been decided. It is possible Benning does numerous mistakes and this team this developers nicely because of prospects outperforming expectations. It is not like we knew the Canucks were about to do well in 1991 1999 or 2007 it was a surprise each time that the Canucks team became good in those periods. Or it could be like 1983 which started a sad period that Pat Quinn finally pulled the team out of. the point is it is too early to tell.

 

[Fat Tony]

It is not like we knew the Canucks were about to do well in 1991 1999 or 2007 it was a surprise each time that the Canucks team became good in those periods.

No, it wasn't.

 

[Shareefruck]

Those were failed regimes this one is this in process I know you believe it is failed but that has not been proven yet. This person like you assumes it has been decided. It is possible Benning does numerous mistakes and this team this developers nicely because of prospects outperforming expectations. It is not like we knew the Canucks were about to do well in 1991 1999 or 2007 it was a surprise each time that the Canucks team became good in those periods. Or it could be like 1983 which started a sad period that Pat Quinn finally pulled the team out of. the point is it is too early to tell.

This regime is currently showing signs of failing in a very similar way to how those other regimes did.

Fans saw through those failed regimes while they were happening as well. It's not like they looked back at it when it was all said and done and went "Oh man, in hindsight, they really were terrible, I had no idea."

Similarly, the moments before the examples you gave got good, they never showed these same signs of hopelessness and incompetence. They showed some promise that could go either way.

 

[Jyrki21]

No, it wasn't.

To be fair, both the 1991-92 and 2006-07 teams far surpassed expectations. In 1991 it was because Quinn's wheeling and dealing paid off much more quickly than expected (even before Bure arrived, the team was already in first place), as well as the addition of an expansion team to the division for some easy points. At the start of the year it was just taken for granted back then that the Canucks, by their nature, competed for the 4th playoff spot in the Smythe.

In 2006-07, with the post-WCE downturn, majority opinion definitely had the team out of the playoffs -- it was actually much more negative around here than it probably should have been, I remember. But the rise of the Sedins and the immediate impacts of Luongo and Mitchell (as well as Bieksa coming out of nowhere) staved that off.

All that to say, though, that "surprise" is not the same thing as "random". Shrewd moves were paying off.

 

[RobertKron]

To be fair, both the 1991-92 and 2006-07 teams far surpassed expectations. In 1991 it was because Quinn's wheeling and dealing paid off much more quickly than expected (even before Bure arrived, the team was already in first place), as well as the addition of an expansion team to the division for some easy points. At the start of the year it was just taken for granted back then that the Canucks, by their nature, competed for the 4th playoff spot in the Smythe.

In 2006-07, with the post-WCE downturn, majority opinion definitely had the team out of the playoffs -- it was actually much more negative around here than it probably should have been, I remember. But the rise of the Sedins and the immediate impacts of Luongo and Mitchell (as well as Bieksa coming out of nowhere) staved that off.

All that to say, though, that "surprise" is not the same thing as "random". Shrewd moves were paying off.

I was young at the time, but I remember the St Louis deal in '91 being seen as a big turning point for the team, especially with how the three forwards clicked with the team. I can still remember where I was the day that trade happened, and the buzz around it.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

To be fair, both the 1991-92 and 2006-07 teams far surpassed expectations. In 1991 it was because Quinn's wheeling and dealing paid off much more quickly than expected (even before Bure arrived, the team was already in first place), as well as the addition of an expansion team to the division for some easy points. At the start of the year it was just taken for granted back then that the Canucks, by their nature, competed for the 4th playoff spot in the Smythe.

In 2006-07, with the post-WCE downturn, majority opinion definitely had the team out of the playoffs -- it was actually much more negative around here than it probably should have been, I remember. But the rise of the Sedins and the immediate impacts of Luongo and Mitchell (as well as Bieksa coming out of nowhere) staved that off.

All that to say, though, that "surprise" is not the same thing as "random". Shrewd moves were paying off.

Yeah, post 07 massive leaps in development by Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Edler and Bieksa were pretty unexpected.

 

[Hit the post]

Yeah, post 07 massive leaps in development by Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Edler and Bieksa were pretty unexpected.

Vigneault had a pretty strong role in that (being their coach - except the Sedins/Edler - in the AHL as well) IMHO.

We may never have a coach as good as him again.

 

[RobertKron]

Yeah, post 07 massive leaps in development by Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Edler and Bieksa were pretty unexpected.

Bieksa was a 40 point defenseman in '07, and Edler looked fantastic when he first hit the league. Hell, Bieksa fell off some for a while after '07.

 

[Jyrki21]

I was young at the time, but I remember the St Louis deal in '91 being seen as a big turning point for the team, especially with how the three forwards clicked with the team. I can still remember where I was the day that trade happened, and the buzz around it.

It was a blockbuster trade, for sure, but obviously St. Louis wouldn't have made it if everyone knew at the time how much actual value they were giving up. The main thing was Ronning, I think, who was just seen as an undersized power play specialist and had been playing in Italy not long before – it was his emergence as a key player that was probably the biggest surprise.

The "Life Line" generated buzz right away, but when the trade was announced no one thought it vaulted the Canucks into contention or anything. I still remember very clearly the "Outlook" portion of the NHL Yearbook following the 1990-91 season, which probably sums up the bounds of optimism at the time. The opening sentence read, "The Canucks' goal of playing .500 hockey may not be that unrealistic."

When they were in first place right from the hop in 1991-92, nobody thought it was going to last. (Once Bure arrived and the Canucks had a threatening second line with Larionov and Adams, that began to change, of course).

 

[MS]

It was a blockbuster trade, for sure, but obviously St. Louis wouldn't have made it if everyone knew at the time how much actual value they were giving up. The main thing was Ronning, I think, who was just seen as an undersized power play specialist and had been playing in Italy not long before – it was his emergence as a key player that was probably the biggest surprise.

The "Life Line" generated buzz right away, but when the trade was announced no one thought it vaulted the Canucks into contention or anything. I still remember very clearly the "Outlook" portion of the NHL Yearbook following the 1990-91 season, which probably sums up the bounds of optimism at the time. The opening sentence read, "The Canucks' goal of playing .500 hockey may not be that unrealistic."

When they were in first place right from the hop in 1991-92, nobody thought it was going to last. (Once Bure arrived and the Canucks had a threatening second line with Larionov and Adams, that began to change, of course).

There had been a sense of things turning, though, since the arrival of Quinn in '87 and Linden in '88. Vancouver in 1991 was generally regarded as a well-run team headed in the right direction, and that St. Louis trade gave the city a huge lift.

The way they'd explode into a top team in 1991-92 was a bit of a surprise, but it wasn't surprising that we were beginning to turn a corner as a franchse.

 

[RobertKron]

It was a blockbuster trade, for sure, but obviously St. Louis wouldn't have made it if everyone knew at the time how much actual value they were giving up. The main thing was Ronning, I think, who was just seen as an undersized power play specialist and had been playing in Italy not long before – it was his emergence as a key player that was probably the biggest surprise.

The "Life Line" generated buzz right away, but when the trade was announced no one thought it vaulted the Canucks into contention or anything. I still remember very clearly the "Outlook" portion of the NHL Yearbook following the 1990-91 season, which probably sums up the bounds of optimism at the time. The opening sentence read, "The Canucks' goal of playing .500 hockey may not be that unrealistic."

When they were in first place right from the hop in 1991-92, nobody thought it was going to last. (Once Bure arrived and the Canucks had a threatening second line with Larionov and Adams, that began to change, of course).

This is entirely fair, and I was young at the time and that trade was the first time I'd seen the Canucks really making a move that showed that they were pushing for it. That said, I took OP's comment, given the other years included, to be aimed more at the incoming "era" rather than the specific very next season.

 

[Jyrki21]

This is entirely fair, and I was young at the time and that trade was the first time I'd seen the Canucks really making a move that showed that they were pushing for it. That said, I took OP's comment, given the other years included, to be aimed more at the incoming "era" rather than the specific very next season.

Yeah, agreed... which is why my reaction to that comment was "surprise", but not "random". It was just that the seeds planted (by some astute moves and a few decent draft picks in each case) were finally coming to fruition, in some cases faster than anyone expected.

What Benning is doing now is essentially just making a whole bunch of unrelated moves and hoping some sort of "spark" or "culture" arises out of it (i.e. magic). There's no building toward a crescendo, just a guy banging on the keys of a piano, hoping it happens to make a nice melody.

 

[Cupless44]

I was young at the time, but I remember the St Louis deal in '91 being seen as a big turning point for the team, especially with how the three forwards clicked with the team. I can still remember where I was the day that trade happened, and the buzz around it.

The Quinn days were my favorite in Canuck history by a wide margin. A likeable cast
Of characters, a big gritty team that did not get pushed around and good skill, including the most talented player in Canuck history.

That trade was awesome, a game changer.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

The Quinn days were my favorite in Canuck history by a wide margin. A likeable cast
Of characters, a big gritty team that did not get pushed around and good skill, including the most talented player in Canuck history.

That trade was awesome, a game changer.

bc guys too. cliffy, geoff and briefly russ courtnall, gus adams, and only one guy from medicine hat.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Bah who cares if the Comets turn into a complete circus...all of our prospects are going to be playing with the parent club immediately right?

Is parent club the new slang word for "other teams"?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Anyone suspect that there will be a point in time where Linden will have to confront ownership? He is the buffer to whatever GM is here. Once Benning is fired, a new GM is hired that wasn't hired directly by Linden, then we'll see it. As we saw it with Gillis near the end.

 

[digger18]

Linden was/still is great in the community. I'd say a 10+ in that regard.

IMO he was always over rated as a player, because of his charitable work in the community he was loved, and a that love made him get away with some on ice short comings. With his size I always remember wishing he'd just "get mad out there". Start knocking some people around and quit being such a wuss! Was he all that loved in the room? Sometimes I wonder? Mark Messier did get away un touched for mugging him at the end of game 6 of the 94 final. Not one of Lindens team mates even batted an eye. And that was back when you could actually get away with jumping someone after the final whistle, without facing suspension! If Mess did what he did to Linden today, Hed be getting 5 to 10 games easily. I always thought Linden was over rated as a player. I liked him as a person. But as a player is rate him a 7.5

As a manager I'm giving him a 1.

Overall he gets a 5/10, which basically lines up with my historical grade for the Canucks organization. We have mediocre players numbers hanging in our rafters because the fact is we are a mediocre organization!

It amazes me the fear taking place in Vancouver concerning committing to a full rebuild that should have started 4 years ago! In hindsite WTF does this organization really have to lose...it's pretty much been a below average 40 plus years already! What's 3 to 5 more crappy years if the end game is an actual chance to contend for a cup?

 

[RobertKron]

Linden was/still is great in the community. I'd say a 10+ in that regard.

IMO he was always over rated as a player, because of his charitable work in the community he was loved, and a that love made him get away with some on ice short comings. With his size I always remember wishing he'd just "get mad out there". Start knocking some people around and quit being such a wuss! Was he all that loved in the room? Sometimes I wonder? Mark Messier did get away un touched for mugging him at the end of game 6 of the 94 final. Not one of Lindens team mates even batted an eye. And that was back when you could actually get away with jumping someone after the final whistle, without facing suspension! If Mess did what he did to Linden today, Hed be getting 5 to 10 games easily. I always thought Linden was over rated as a player. I liked him as a person. But as a player is rate him a 7.5

As a manager I'm giving him a 1.

Overall he gets a 5/10, which basically lines up with my historical grade for the Canucks organization. We have mediocre players numbers hanging in our rafters because the fact is we are a mediocre organization!

It amazes me the fear taking place in Vancouver concerning committing to a full rebuild that should have started 4 years ago! In hindsite WTF does this organization really have to lose...it's pretty much been a below average 40 plus years already! What's 3 to 5 more crappy years if the end game is an actual chance to contend for a cup?

Didn't they have to hold Momesso back from jumping the boards? The next game was the final game of the playoffs - nobody was about to do anything crazy.

 

[F A N]

Amateur scouting netted us Tanev as well.

Nah. That was simply Gagner knowing Tanev for a long time and pushing Gillis to sign him. I'm not saying this as a slight to Gillis. Gagner was one of his first hires and that the Tanev signing paid for that hiring in Gold.