Trevor Linden and how to tarnish a legacy

[racerjoe]

It's laughable that you think there is no plan behind what they are doing. Benning and the management team he was part of didn't use analytics and beat the team he's now the general manager of 5 years ago.

You added more after I posted.

How is that going for us?

Pits this year was using analytic's big time. Chicago has been a major team to use them. LA was one of the best performing analytic's teams in the NHL.

His way of looking at things are outdated.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Multiple people predicted exactly how this season would go down. This isn't hindsight.

It's a death by a thousand paper cuts. We were the third worst team this year. That is catastrophic. That would be the disaster you were looking for.

This.

Zero hindsight whatsoever. I (and many others) called this disastrous season before the season even began. It was clear as day to any knowledgeable hockey fan that this was a very bad hockey team and that expectations should be tempered. For some reason Benning didn't think that way and actually thought he built a legitimate playoff hockey team that could win at least one playoff round.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The cupboard was empty when they arrived. There is your reason for no depth, and the reason for acquiring guys in their early 20's.

It's laughable that you think there is no plan behind what they are doing. Benning and the management team he was part of didn't use analytics and beat the team he's now the general manager of 5 years ago.

The cupboard is still empty because Benning keeps trading picks and prospects away for useless garbage!

No, there is no plan behind what they're doing. It's laughable that you can look at what they've done over the past two years and think there is a plan. What plan? What is the plan? I don't see it. Are we getting younger? Okay, but then why trade away our top prospects and draft picks? Are we competing for the playoffs? Okay, then why do you continue to keep two teenagers in the lineup past the All-Star break when they clearly aren't ready?

Are we trying to rebuild our defensive depth? Okay, well then why let a 23 year old Frankie Corrado go for free on waivers?

What is the plan?

All of the top teams in today's NHL use analytics. It's clear as day when you see how these teams take advantage of Benning as the village idiot in every trade they make with him.

 

[xtra]

Can any of you defend these moves

Shinkaruk for Granlund?

From the time of the trade:

Granlund
2015-2016 VAN GP16 G 2 A 1 P 3

Shinkaruk
2015-2016 CGY GP8 G 2 A 1 P 3


Sbisa vs. Corrado (one makes 635k and one makes 2.7 mil with a 3.6 cap hit)

Corrado
2015-2016 39 1 5 6

Sbisa
2015-2016 41 2 6 8

and I don't even want to start the sutter vs. bonino debate

 

[Hit the post]

The cupboard was empty when they arrived. There is your reason for no depth, and the reason for acquiring guys in their early 20's.

It's laughable

Granlund.

 

[Wisp]

I mean, I don't know that anybody "deserves" to be a celebrity, but in terms of Canucks, certainly Linden is as worthy of our adoration as anybody.

that sort of unconditional adoration? he's not MLK.

 

[Intangibos]

What stupidity? Rubbing your crystal ball again so you can get some hindsight on the moves you are critiquing? Criticism is fine, but it isn't warranted until you see how someone fits in on the team.


It's laughable

It's laughable is right. Maybe you should spend more time here, this isn't hindsight. You can see posts by me, Y2K, peen,
Samzilla and countless others outlining exactly what would happen before it happened. We critiqued the moves as soon as they were made. It's just once we inevitably turned out to be right, the discussions picked up again.

"Hindsight" lmao

 

[Alan Jackson]

that sort of unconditional adoration? he's not MLK.

Well, I specified "in terms of Canucks" and thought we were speaking in terms of sports idols.

I do thank you for pointing out Linden's failings as a civil rights leader, though.

 

[me2]

You can defend your players in public without insinuating that your fans are basically stupid.

Well he also called San Jose fans to stupid to know what icing was our something similar.

 

[me2]

What stupidity? Take your pick...

1) The return we got from the Kesler trade
2) The disgusting overpayment on the Miller contract
3) The Garrison for a 2nd trade
4) The 2nd for Linden ****ing Vey trade
5) The Dorsett contract extension
6) The Sbisa contract extension
7) Trading Lack for the lowest return that a young goalie got, while doubling down on Miller as your starter, despite the fact that Lack outplayed Miller.
8) Throwing in a draft pick to move Kassian for Brandon Prust
9) Paying a huge premium for the privilege of helping Pittsburgh solve their own cap problems.
10) The gross overpayment on the Brandon Sutter contract.
11) Keeping Virtanen and McCann on the roster for the entire season even after they plateau'd and showed they weren't ready.
12) The Shinkaruk for Granlund trade
13) The gross overpayment for Gudbranson
14) The fact management needed the NHL's help to name their opening roster because they didn't know how to keep cap compliant.
15) The original Tryamkin contract that was rejected by the NHL because the Benning regime didn't understand a simple provision in the CBA that even a lot of posters on here knew about.
16) The overall cap mismanagement which has led to a bonus overage penalty being applied to the 16-17 cap.
17) The firing of Eric Crawford, Lorne Henning, Lawrence Gilman, and Mike Burnstein, when by all accounts their performance has been very good.
18) The continued support of Willie Desjardins who has shown he does not have the ability to be a successful NHL coach.
19) Not moving out our pending UFA's (Hamhuis, Vrbata) at the trade deadline and now letting them walk away for free.
20) Wasting contract spots on useless prospects like Mackenze Stewart (the term prospect being used very loosely).

Losing Corrado because they couldn't work out how put Higgins on ltir to start the season.

Forsling for Clendening

Letting good vets walk for nothing instead of re-signing them out trading them.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

No depth on forward (scoring especially), or defense (Yannick Weber in the top 4...)

Both problems created by Benning. No one forced him to sign Ryan Miller to his big money deal.

The cupboard was empty when they arrived. There is your reason for no depth, and the reason for acquiring guys in their early 20's.

Name me a single team that has focused on the 'age gap' as being priority #1 and has made their personnel decisions based on this supposed 'age gap' issue above all other things (such as common sense, positional needs and organizational strength/depth.)

Benning and the management team he was part of didn't use analytics and beat the team he's now the general manager of 5 years ago.

How are the Bruins these days? How full are their cupboards?

I mean, they should be chock full of explosive young talent, right?

How was implementing the "Boston Model" working for the Canucks? Lots of playoff success, right?

 

[kurt]

So you're saying Gretzky is a loser because he wasn't a great coach?
Nice hack job on this article.
I guess haters gotta hate.

Are you comparing Linden to Gretzky? LOL!

 

[Wisp]

Well, I specified "in terms of Canucks" and thought we were speaking in terms of sports idols.

I do thank you for pointing out Linden's failings as a civil rights leader, though.

i'm speaking in terms of a public figure. Athletes in general get too much undeserved idolization (edit: AND undeserved criticism, if we're being fair). How Vancouver used to treat Linden might have been in line with how great athletes are treated, but even then it was out of proportion with the calibre of his career.

 

[VanJack]

What stupidity? Take your pick...

1) The return we got from the Kesler trade
2) The disgusting overpayment on the Miller contract
3) The Garrison for a 2nd trade
4) The 2nd for Linden ****ing Vey trade
5) The Dorsett contract extension
6) The Sbisa contract extension
7) Trading Lack for the lowest return that a young goalie got, while doubling down on Miller as your starter, despite the fact that Lack outplayed Miller.
8) Throwing in a draft pick to move Kassian for Brandon Prust
9) Paying a huge premium for the privilege of helping Pittsburgh solve their own cap problems.
10) The gross overpayment on the Brandon Sutter contract.
11) Keeping Virtanen and McCann on the roster for the entire season even after they plateau'd and showed they weren't ready.
12) The Shinkaruk for Granlund trade
13) The gross overpayment for Gudbranson
14) The fact management needed the NHL's help to name their opening roster because they didn't know how to keep cap compliant.
15) The original Tryamkin contract that was rejected by the NHL because the Benning regime didn't understand a simple provision in the CBA that even a lot of posters on here knew about.
16) The overall cap mismanagement which has led to a bonus overage penalty being applied to the 16-17 cap.
17) The firing of Eric Crawford, Lorne Henning, Lawrence Gilman, and Mike Burnstein, when by all accounts their performance has been very good.
18) The continued support of Willie Desjardins who has shown he does not have the ability to be a successful NHL coach.
19) Not moving out our pending UFA's (Hamhuis, Vrbata) at the trade deadline and now letting them walk away for free.
20) Wasting contract spots on useless prospects like Mackenze Stewart (the term prospect being used very loosely).

Wow!....when you list it like that, it's one ugly, ugly list of failures....the only other one I might add is the number of draft picks they've squandered in meaningless trades....seconds, thirds and fifth rounders all flushed down the drain....but hopefully this means that never again will posters be able to complain bitterly about how many picks the Nonis-Gillis regimes dealt away....Jimbo has set the bar too high.

 

[James Underbuss*]

What stupidity? Take your pick...

1) The return we got from the Kesler trade
2) The disgusting overpayment on the Miller contract
3) The Garrison for a 2nd trade
4) The 2nd for Linden ****ing Vey trade
5) The Dorsett contract extension
6) The Sbisa contract extension
7) Trading Lack for the lowest return that a young goalie got, while doubling down on Miller as your starter, despite the fact that Lack outplayed Miller.
8) Throwing in a draft pick to move Kassian for Brandon Prust
9) Paying a huge premium for the privilege of helping Pittsburgh solve their own cap problems.
10) The gross overpayment on the Brandon Sutter contract.
11) Keeping Virtanen and McCann on the roster for the entire season even after they plateau'd and showed they weren't ready.
12) The Shinkaruk for Granlund trade
13) The gross overpayment for Gudbranson
14) The fact management needed the NHL's help to name their opening roster because they didn't know how to keep cap compliant.
15) The original Tryamkin contract that was rejected by the NHL because the Benning regime didn't understand a simple provision in the CBA that even a lot of posters on here knew about.
16) The overall cap mismanagement which has led to a bonus overage penalty being applied to the 16-17 cap.
17) The firing of Eric Crawford, Lorne Henning, Lawrence Gilman, and Mike Burnstein, when by all accounts their performance has been very good.
18) The continued support of Willie Desjardins who has shown he does not have the ability to be a successful NHL coach.
19) Not moving out our pending UFA's (Hamhuis, Vrbata) at the trade deadline and now letting them walk away for free.
20) Wasting contract spots on useless prospects like Mackenze Stewart (the term prospect being used very loosely).

2/20 FAIL

My favourite part was the "disgusting" and "gross" overpayments lol. Entertaining though.

 

[James Underbuss*]

Our prospect cupboard is far from bare. But lets not give credit where credit is due. Its contrary to the doom amd gloom narrative.

 

[y2kcanucks]

There's a couple posters here that seem to know everything but are probably sandwich artists in real life. Its so unfair.

Sure I don't know much. I just knew that the idiotic moves these buffoons made would lead to a disastrous season. I also apparently know more about the CBA than they do, given the mistakes they've made that have been reported.

 

[Wisp]

Our prospect cupboard is far from bare. But lets not give credit where credit is due. Its contrary to the doom amd gloom narrative.

who is playing for the Utica Comets next year? Who are our depth call-ups next year?

All we got is Jordan Subban and Cole Cassels on that team. You planning on giving the credit to Mike Gillis?

let's not give credit where it's not due: they traded the farm.

 

[James Underbuss*]

who is playing for the Utica Comets next year? Who are our depth call-ups next year?

All we got is Jordan Subban and Cole Cassels on that team. You planning on giving the credit to Mike Gillis?

let's not give credit where it's not due: they traded the farm.

Im not going to sit here and point out the obvious. I'll just say that i don't really care who plays in Utica.

McCain would have been in utica this year but now we have some pansy named gudbranson on the canucks. How will we survive?

 

[Catamarca Livin]

You added more after I posted.

How is that going for us?

Pits this year was using analytic's big time. Chicago has been a major team to use them. LA was one of the best performing analytic's teams in the NHL.

His way of looking at things are outdated.

LA being best performing teams based on analytics is a fact that they are because of analytics isn't. They could have built their team based on north south players with size than this resulted in great analytic results. following Analytics have not been shown to produce superior teams. Chicago used analytics to draft Toews Kane Keith and Seabrook? No one here knows the degree they use them.

 

[Verviticus]

Im not going to sit here and point out the obvious. I'll just say that i don't really care who plays in Utica.

McCain would have been in utica this year but now we have some pansy named gudbranson on the canucks. How will we survive?

we won't, lmao

 

[RobertKron]

LA being best performing teams based on analytics is a fact that they are because of analytics isn't. They could have built their team based on north south players with size than this resulted in great analytic results. following Analytics have not been shown to produce superior teams. Chicago used analytics to draft Toews Kane Keith and Seabrook? No one here knows the degree they use them.

How the Los Angeles Kings Corsi'd their way to the NHL's elite. . .

. . .The Los Angeles Kings, the 2012 Stanley Cup champions, seem to be one of the clubs on the leading edge when it comes to utilizing them under general manager Dean Lombardi. . .

. . . When Lombardi took over as general manager, he talked about the influence that Michael Lewis' bestselling book Moneyball had on him and how it would relate to his work with the Kings. Moneyball had a huge impact on baseball and was a lightning rod for heated discussion (that still exists) as Lewis highlighted Oakland A's general manager Billy Beane and his quest to find undervalued commodities in baseball who could help his team compete against significantly richer teams.
"I was thinking about a lot of this stuff even before Moneyball came out," Lombardi said back in 2006, via Surly and Scribe. "It requires almost a cultural change, to get your staff thinking a certain way, and that’s what we’re working toward.
“We’ve put a lot of time and thought into this, and now we’re going to see if it works. This is one of those things where we’re going to end up going down paths that don’t work. But we’re going to find the right one, and we’re not going to get frustrated along the way.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/news/how-the-los-angeles-kings-corsid-their-way-to-the-nhls-elite

I'm sure it was a coincidence, though.

 

[Ainec]

Our prospect cupboard is far from bare. But lets not give credit where credit is due. Its contrary to the doom amd gloom narrative.

difference between homers and those that actually look around the league and realize our cupboard is nothing impressive even with Boeser and Demko

 

[Fat Tony]

They could have built their team based on north south players with size than this resulted in great analytic results.

If so, they are not "based on analytics".

 

[Wisp]

Im not going to sit here and point out the obvious. I'll just say that i don't really care who plays in Utica.

for a team with contending aspirations, you want good prospects developing on your farm so you can call them up as depth when there's an injury.

for a team with rebuilding aspirations, you want good prospects developing on your farm so you can be a contender tomorrow.

I shouldn't have to point out how the farm situation isn't serving the Canucks in either capacity. they're going to be bad, with no depth, and no future.