Trades for Hagg or Morin?

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah, Hagg has largely been the same player for years now, with little improvement in his game. His flaws were masked by lack of exposure and attention and blind hope mostly, but the things that make him one of the worst defensemen in the NHL today, were pretty easy to spot at that level.

Friedman is nothing special and likely tops out as a 3rd pair guy, but we're talking about one of the best skaters in the entire organization and a pretty aggressive player in the NZ, where as Hagg is at the opposite end on both accounts. Friedman's junior scoring never really translated but I think there's enough skill there that he can at least not be a liability with the puck.

It's probably a bad time to trade defense -- wait till camp as TJ said above.

There's defensemen on the market right now better than Hagg people can just sign without giving up assets for (like Gardiner).

I would love to know what team thinks Hagg is Plan B to Gardiner's plan A.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg and Pionk just had similar seasons. There aren't 180 defensemen who are above replacement level and whom can stay healthy.

Hagg played well with Ghost last season, and was decent with Provorov.
He cratered with Gudas and AMac.
Like most 3rd pair defenseman, Hagg needs to be sheltered, given the right partner and coached not to do too much.

Flyers don't need to figure out how to make Hagg viable b/c they have better options in Morin and Friedman, but some other team, strapped for cap room and thin on defense, may look at Hagg as an affordable, 24 year old D-man they can put in the right situation.

 

[orangey]

I think they can get a 2nd for him if they wait until teams start getting injuries. No need to do anything yet.

 

[Striiker]

Nah he was good in the AHL, now you're just shooting from the hip. The sloppier, less-precise game down there hid a lot of the inadequacies that become apparent in the NHL, it happens for a ton of players. Fittingly, it was Hagg's former AHL coach, who trusted him greatly at that level, that cut his NHL minutes drastically this season. He was a very good AHL shutdown man who earned his NHL shot and then did very little with it: Friedman plays a somewhat different role than Robert did, and he's not as noteworthy at it.

Maybe Friedman will have a good run down there this year and earn a look, but you can't slot him in above Hagg at the moment, no matter how much you hate Hagg. A fender-bender in a Wawa parking lot is detrimental to your vehicle, but the vast unknown of "literally anything good or bad that can happen to a car" is not "better than a known detriment."

You have a very poor memory.

Hagg has been the exact same player for a long time, including his AHL career.

He didn't earn a shot, he was gifted it. Sanheim and Morin both easily outplayed him in the AHL and yet he was the one with a permanent spot that year.

If Friedman has even a 1% chance of being decent then he's an upgrade on Hagg. At worst, he's the same and we actually tried to improve the team.

 

[Tripod]

Hes always had the same problems, horrible at moving the puck, black hole offensively, and not even good defensively to make up for it. Then he comes up to the NHL and gets even further exposed.

Hagg tied Subban and Doughty in ES points this year....tied for 72nd most in NHL.

Some GM will see "upside" in him.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Hagg tied Subban and Doughty in ES points this year....tied for 72nd most in NHL.

Some GM will see "upside" in him.

He's a cap savings on both of them too!! VALUE!!!

 

[Larry44]

Hagg and Pionk just had similar seasons. There aren't 180 defensemen who are above replacement level and whom can stay healthy.

Hagg played well with Ghost last season, and was decent with Provorov.
He cratered with Gudas and AMac.
Like most 3rd pair defenseman, Hagg needs to be sheltered, given the right partner and coached not to do too much.

Flyers don't need to figure out how to make Hagg viable b/c they have better options in Morin and Friedman, but some other team, strapped for cap room and thin on defense, may look at Hagg as an affordable, 24 year old D-man they can put in the right situation.

Hagg has value and will play somewhere in the NHL this year, notwithstanding the typical pointless ragging he gets from Flyer fans on here. He’s done everything they’ve asked of him, gives his best and is young and still has room to grow his game. Someone facing a cap crunch like Toronto will need a Dman to fill out their roster, assuming Morin stays healthy enough to win the 7th spot.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hagg tied Subban and Doughty in ES points this year....tied for 72nd most in NHL.

Some GM will see "upside" in him.

Absolutely.

I really have zero doubt there are GMs that want Hagg.

 

[Striiker]

It's hilarious that there's still people who defend Hagg.

 

[Deadpool8812]

No sense trading either right now

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm shocked a poster that called JVR and Hayes trash also complains about people ragging on Hagg. Only this place...

 

[Rich Nixon]

I prefer the aggressive-aggressive behavior.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I prefer the aggressive-aggressive behavior.

As do I.

Vegeta is now my avatar because I've embraced anger in life when directed properly.

 

[Rebels57]

Hagg has value and will play somewhere in the NHL this year, notwithstanding the typical pointless ragging he gets from Flyer fans on here. He’s done everything they’ve asked of him, gives his best and is young and still has room to grow his game. Someone facing a cap crunch like Toronto will need a Dman to fill out their roster, assuming Morin stays healthy enough to win the 7th spot.

The ragging isnt pointless. He was gifted a spot he didnt earn and since then, hes actively made it more difficult for the Flyers to win hockey games. I want the Flyers to win hockey games. Therefore, by my estimation, the ragging is worthwhile.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg has value and will play somewhere in the NHL this year, notwithstanding the typical pointless ragging he gets from Flyer fans on here. He’s done everything they’ve asked of him, gives his best and is young and still has room to grow his game. Someone facing a cap crunch like Toronto will need a Dman to fill out their roster, assuming Morin stays healthy enough to win the 7th spot.

 

[deadhead]

The ragging isnt pointless. He was gifted a spot he didnt earn and since then, hes actively made it more difficult for the Flyers to win hockey games. I want the Flyers to win hockey games. Therefore, by my estimation, the ragging is worthwhile.

Hagg wasn't gifted anything, Morin blew his opportunities.

Morin had a good D+2 season in the Q, but didn't show much in the WJC-20.
He then spent two years at LHV and didn't exactly dominate, not much offense and puck handling needed work.
Started showing flashes in 2017-18 and got hurt after 15 games.
Then when Morin had a prime opportunity to win a job in 2018-19 he got hurt again.

Players make things happen, or not.

Morin has always been overrated due to his size and mobility, but never dominated in the AHL and blew his shots so far in the NHL. They signed him for three years b/c they have hope for him, but at some point he needs to deliver.

Hagg has been durable - that matters - because you don't want to have to call up the Alts and Brennans b/c Morin is hurt again.

 

[Laveuglette]

Hagg could fetch a 2nd imo. Not sure about Morin's market value, but I wouldn't trade him. He might want out if he's not given a chance though. He needs to play in the NHL.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No point in rushing to shop them before preseason.

Let the new staff get a good look at everyone & make their evaluations.

Give them a chance to show who’s in good shape, who has improved over the summer, who fits the new systems best, etc.

Whoever doesn’t win a spot can then be shopped. But there’s no use limiting the team’s options & roster competition at this stage.

 

[BritainStix]

Hagg wasn't gifted anything, Morin blew his opportunities.

Morin had a good D+2 season in the Q, but didn't show much in the WJC-20.
He then spent two years at LHV and didn't exactly dominate, not much offense and puck handling needed work.
Started showing flashes in 2017-18 and got hurt after 15 games.
Then when Morin had a prime opportunity to win a job in 2018-19 he got hurt again.

Players make things happen, or not.

Morin has always been overrated due to his size and mobility, but never dominated in the AHL and blew his shots so far in the NHL. They signed him for three years b/c they have hope for him, but at some point he needs to deliver.

Hagg has been durable - that matters - because you don't want to have to call up the Alts and Brennans b/c Morin is hurt again.

This quite frankly is horse shit. Morin outplayed everyone at camp, he was outstanding in pre-season and looked every bit of what we expected. He then didn't even make the roster over Hagg or Farmer which was nothing short of a disgrace. He then plays 5 games and gets injured for the rest of the year.

 

[dats81]

Morin outplayed everyone at camp, he was outstanding in pre-season...

I understand that people are frustrated that Hägg's development has stalled and all of those years of AMac on the roster have certainly taken their toll... but we are now entering a world of alternative facts, changing the narrative based on a myth about a hockey playing behemoth called Sam Morin that was born and groomed on this message board.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This quite frankly is horse ****. Morin outplayed everyone at camp, he was outstanding in pre-season and looked every bit of what we expected. He then didn't even make the roster over Hagg or Farmer which was nothing short of a disgrace. He then plays 5 games and gets injured for the rest of the year.

That’s a matter of opinion.

And I think Morin’s preseason performance in 17/18 has been exaggerated. No, I do not believe he “outplayed everyone at camp.”

He’s a former 11th overall pick with intriguing physical traits, & I think that makes most people want desperately to see the very best in him & have him make the team, which skews their opinion.

Morin made plenty of mistakes that preseason. I saw much smaller players get to the net around him due to struggles with pivots. I saw him miss coverages. His puckhandling was improved, but he still showed a tendency to look down at the puck.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he had a poor preseason (I thought he showed a lot of signs of improvement); but I’ve never agreed with the oft-repeated notion that he blew the doors off of everyone else.

I did agree that it would be more interesting as a fan to have him start over Hagg, but if management felt a little more comfortable starting with Hagg it wasn’t anything I thought was indefensible.

Then again, in retrospect, it’s the classic Hextall move: He overly valued robotic players, & undervalued energy, spirit, & personality.

If I’m not mistaken, though, didn’t Morin suffer an injury near the end of preseason that he tried to hide? I think that’s why he got sent down, when the plan had been to rotate him in.

 

[Magua]

Forget Morin. Hagg outplayed Sanheim in camp. He earned it.

 

[NYCFlyer]

No point in rushing to shop them before preseason.

Let the new staff get a good look at everyone & make their evaluations.

Give them a chance to show who’s in good shape, who has improved over the summer, who fits the new systems best, etc.

Whoever doesn’t win a spot can then be shopped. But there’s no use limiting the team’s options & roster competition at this stage.

Obvious and sensible but if your are going to go in this direction on hf you need to provide a suitable vent and spew alternative.

 

[1865]

If he leaves him on the team and he gets playing time... that's obviously a disaster.

Let's calm the hyerbole a little bit on this. If he's a 6/7 it's not really a disaster is it? He's shit of course, but we've bemoaned and ridiculed every #6 we've had since i started writing on here a decade ago. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what a #6 should be.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I find it funny that every player has one, generic, go to criticism that everyone goes to when they want to play the other side. Specific enough that it makes it sound like you may have seen him once before, but also generic enough that you can see right through it. Morin struggling against smaller skaters always gets me. Bobby Brink being bad defensively might be next!