Trades for Hagg or Morin?

eramosat

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Dec 19, 2015
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Anyone think it's worthwhile to move on from these players? Do they have any useful value, as trade pieces or as NHL Flyer roster pieces?

My own thought is that Flyer's abrupt acquisition of 2+ NHL dee vets means why bother with these guys anymore...so how does Fletch maintain the value proposition?
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Fletcher doesn't NEED to trade anyone, he has cap and roster room to start the season.
Injuries will happen, both on the Flyers and other teams.

So instead of the attitude "we need to trade X to make room for Y" he can just wait until he receives a good offer, knowing he has 8 NHL defensemen on the roster, Friedman in LHV, a couple veterans on LHV with NHL experience, and prospects lined up in college, SHL and CHL.

The wildcard is AV, he may well want to wait until he sees everyone in TC, then talk to Fletcher about who he'd like to keep as the #7 D-man and who might not fit his schemes/other personnel.
 

prototypical4thliner

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Jan 12, 2017
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As much as it pains me to, I would agree with deadhead. Fletcher has no real NEED to make a move. Yes, I think they should move on from one (*cough* hagg *cough*) but the question is when.

Just a what if. Insert random western conference playoff contending team suffers a rash of injuries on their blue line. They are going to need someone who has shown they can survive in the league. Maybe that’s the time we maximize the return on investment.

I don’t think fletcher needs to, nor should, move these guys right now. I sure as hell don’t think morin should go—he’s a unicorn in a mystery box, unique.
 
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Striiker

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Hagg has negative value to us as a player but there's likely a GM out there who is dumb enough to want him... so he has value.

But Fletcher has to get rid of him this offseason.

If he leaves him on the team and he gets playing time... that's obviously a disaster.
If he's on the team and doesn't play, his value could drop or he'll walk away at the end of the contract and we'll get nothing for him.

We have more than enough defensemen so keeping him around has literally zero upside for us.
 

DrinkFightFlyers

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I imagine Hagg would fetch more than Morin but I still don't think it would be a ton. I would have to guess a third maybe would be best case scenario for Hagg and given the depth chart I'd think if someone offered that Fletcher would take it.

Morin I can't imagine anyone offering much. Little experience over the last two years and about six years post draft. He can probably fetch as the Rags got for McIlrath.
 

Rich Nixon

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Hagg could fetch a mid-round pick I think.

I’d rather just have one in the AHL before the season starts (Hagg) with the other as your 7th, so if you suffer some serious injury issues you at least have another healthy NHL-experienced body to bring up. Then when everyone’s healthy again you either roll the dice on Hagg getting nabbed off waivers (oh well) or you trade him then, ideally after he’s put together three weeks of competent play as an audition for other teams.

Having extras really doesn’t hurt unless you don’t have the cap space. Should be no problem.
 

Tripod

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Hagg could fetch a mid-round pick I think.

I’d rather just have one in the AHL before the season starts (Hagg) with the other as your 7th, so if you suffer some serious injury issues you at least have another healthy NHL-experienced body to bring up. Then when everyone’s healthy again you either roll the dice on Hagg getting nabbed off waivers (oh well) or you trade him then, ideally after he’s put together three weeks of competent play as an audition for other teams.

Having extras really doesn’t hurt unless you don’t have the cap space. Should be no problem.
Except that you can't get Hagg to the AHL without waiving him, and he would be grabbed for sure. Better off trading him as soon as it looks like we are breaking camp healthy.
 

Rich Nixon

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Except that you can't get Hagg to the AHL without waiving him, and he would be grabbed for sure. Better off trading him as soon as it looks like we are breaking camp healthy.

Believe you can assign him before the season and waivers begin, no?

edit: you right, that’s a negative. Dunno why I was thinking that.
 

Tripod

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Believe you can assign him before the season and waivers begin, no?

edit: you right, that’s a negative. Dunno why I was thinking that.
All good.

I think Hagg should be moved at some point but given our crazy start overseas, I can also see us with 8 Dmen for awhile to start the season.
 

Magua

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deadhead

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Hagg has negative value to us as a player but there's likely a GM out there who is dumb enough to want him... so he has value.

But Fletcher has to get rid of him this offseason.

If he leaves him on the team and he gets playing time... that's obviously a disaster.

If Hagg is on the team and gets PT:
1) Striiker is wrong
2) AV is an idiot
3) we had a rash of injuries.
 

thomas jefferson

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May 13, 2019
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Fletcher probably waits as long as possible. Eventually there will an injury on this roster or another roster before/during training camp and maybe he can get something for Hagg if the other 7 are healthy. Pretty simple.
 

BrindamoursNose

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Oct 14, 2008
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It's probably a bad time to trade defense -- wait till camp as TJ said above.

There's defensemen on the market right now better than Hagg people can just sign without giving up assets for (like Gardiner).
 

Rich Nixon

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Provorov
Braun
Niskanen
Sanheim
Ghost
Myers
Morin
Friedman


There's your 8. All better than Hagg too.

Morin is in theory, but Friedman there's just no argument to be made at this point. Hagg's a bad NHL defenseman, but he was a better AHL defenseman than Friedman currently is, so I don't think you can just go "boom, better" with him after 1 NHL game.
 
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Striiker

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Morin is in theory, but Friedman there's just no argument to be made at this point. Hagg's a bad NHL defenseman, but he was a better AHL defenseman than Friedman currently is, so I don't think you can just go "boom, better" with him after 1 NHL game.
Huh? Hagg was utter trash in the AHL too...

Hes always had the same problems, horrible at moving the puck, black hole offensively, and not even good defensively to make up for it. Then he comes up to the NHL and gets even further exposed.

Friedman is an unknown, but thats better than a known detriment, who has zero upside and is literally one of the worst players in the entire NHL.
 

Rich Nixon

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Huh? Hagg was utter trash in the AHL too...

Hes always had the same problems, horrible at moving the puck, black hole offensively, and not even good defensively to make up for it. Then he comes up to the NHL and gets even further exposed.

Friedman is an unknown, but thats better than a known detriment, who has zero upside and is literally one of the worst players in the entire NHL.

Nah he was good in the AHL, now you're just shooting from the hip. The sloppier, less-precise game down there hid a lot of the inadequacies that become apparent in the NHL, it happens for a ton of players. Fittingly, it was Hagg's former AHL coach, who trusted him greatly at that level, that cut his NHL minutes drastically this season. He was a very good AHL shutdown man who earned his NHL shot and then did very little with it: Friedman plays a somewhat different role than Robert did, and he's not as noteworthy at it.

Maybe Friedman will have a good run down there this year and earn a look, but you can't slot him in above Hagg at the moment, no matter how much you hate Hagg. A fender-bender in a Wawa parking lot is detrimental to your vehicle, but the vast unknown of "literally anything good or bad that can happen to a car" is not "better than a known detriment."
 
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mja

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Nah he was good in the AHL, now you're just shooting from the hip. The sloppier, less-precise game down there hid a lot of the inadequacies that become apparent in the NHL, it happens for a ton of players. Fittingly, it was Hagg's former AHL coach, who trusted him greatly at that level, that cut his NHL minutes drastically this season. He was a very good AHL shutdown man who earned his NHL shot and then did very little with it: Friedman plays a somewhat different role than Robert did, and he's not as noteworthy at it.

I think you're misremembering Hagg's AHL career here. He had a disappointing 2nd AHL season and even got called out for it a bit by the organization if memory serves. People that watched him regularly in the AHL were already detractors. Only catching a handful of Phantoms games a year, I reserved judgement on him as a player until I got to see him play some in the NHL, but his flaws were very apparent very early on and he was exactly what his detractors always said he was.

Friedman's played comparatively well at this point in their pro careers, though he's also much older than Hagg was at the same point. Friedman also has the distinct advantages of being a RH shot and of not being Robert Hagg. As an 8th defenseman, he makes sense. He's cheaper than Hagg, gives you 4 RHD & LHD, and has puck skills Hagg clearly doesn't have.

None of which is to say that Friedman will be a better NHL player than Hagg, but then Hagg isn't really an NHL player anyway.

I'd move Hagg for a pick and cap relief. We're going to need every dollar we can get.

If / when Hagg is moved, I think we're going to guffaw at the return, because dinosaurs still roam the hockey world. A 2nd rounder would not shock me.
 
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Rich Nixon

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I think you're misremembering Hagg's AHL career here. He had a disappointing 2nd AHL season and even got called out for it a bit by the organization if memory serves. People that watched him regularly in the AHL were already detractors. Only catching a handful of Phantoms games a year, I reserved judgement on him as a player until I got to see him play some in the NHL, but his flaws were very apparent very early on and he was exactly what his detractors always said he was.

It would make sense that his second season is a complete blank for me because that was the one year of my life I didn’t live in PA or NJ :laugh:. Not a lot of options for watching the Phantoms in Tennessee. I caught a bunch of his rookie season since the fam had Phantoms seasons back then and he was as advertised, was fine and frequently referred to as the “most NHL-ready” of the D prospects pretty much everywhere (here included) by late 2016 and 2017. Don’t recall any organizational consternation, but tapping around and do see a healthy scratch.

The “NHL ready” mantra was in full effect the next season, and by most accounts he bounced back very well. Probably also benefitted from being in the shadow of Morin and Sanheim at the time. But hey, I was half-wrong, I’ll hold that.
 
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