Trades for Hagg or Morin?

[Striiker]

Let's calm the hyerbole a little bit on this. If he's a 6/7 it's not really a disaster is it? He's **** of course, but we've bemoaned and ridiculed every #6 we've had since i started writing on here a decade ago. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what a #6 should be.

I’m gonna stick with my original wording. It really would be a disaster, for multiple reasons.

Obviously the on-ice effect Hagg has on the game is a massively negative one, so that would be a disaster on its own, but the biggest reason it’d be a disaster would be what it tells us about our brand new coaches and GM.

They’re honestly trying to compete this year, so if they seriously believe Hagg helps the team do that, it means that they’re completely clueless. There’s literally zero excuse or upside to having Hagg on the roster.

As for a #6, we have multiple players already available who would be better options and actually have some form of possible upside. Nobody expects much from a #6 but you also can’t settle for a detrimental player like Hagg.

 

[1865]

I’m gonna stick with my original wording. It really would be a disaster, for multiple reasons.

Obviously the on-ice effect Hagg has on the game is a massively negative one, so that would be a disaster on its own, but the biggest reason it’d be a disaster would be what it tells us about our brand new coaches and GM.

They’re honestly trying to compete this year, so if they seriously believe Hagg helps the team do that, it means that they’re completely clueless. There’s literally zero excuse or upside to having Hagg on the roster.

As for a #6, we have multiple players already available who would be better options and actually have some form of possible upside. Nobody expects much from a #6 but you also can’t settle for a detrimental player like Hagg.

I think you just expect too much from a 6/7 guy, that's all. Hagg isn't what i'd like to see, but a disaster is AMac on the top line, the Bryz contract or Morin's injuries. It's not a guy playing 20 games in a 5 minute capacity. If he didn't suck, he wouldn't be a #6.

 

[Striiker]

I think you just expect too much from a 6/7 guy, that's all. Hagg isn't what i'd like to see, but a disaster is AMac on the top line, the Bryz contract or Morin's injuries. It's not a guy playing 20 games in a 5 minute capacity. If he didn't suck, he wouldn't be a #6.

Trust me, my expectations are extremely low.... it's just that my opinion of Hagg is EVEN LOWER than that.

A guy like Folin, Morin, Friedman, etc as the #6? Sure. No problem.
Hagg, literally anywhere or in any role at all? Nopeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[1865]

Trust me, my expectations are extremely low.... it's just that my opinion of Hagg is EVEN LOWER than that.

A guy like Folin, Morin, Friedman, etc as the #6? Sure. No problem.
Hagg, literally anywhere or in any role at all? Nopeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

As i say, we've been like this with every #6 we've ever had. It's not just Hagg.

 

[Striiker]

As i say, we've been like this with every #6 we've ever had. It's not just Hagg.

Well I can only speak for myself and what my standards are.

What other people have said in the past doesn't effect, or reflect on, me.

 

[1865]

It does affect you though

 

[Striiker]

I have no idea why my phone automatically autocorrects "affect" to "effect"...

It does the same thing with “too” and “to”, but only when don’t it want to.

 

[dragonoffrost]

This fan base isn't happy unless there is a whipping boy. AMac is gone so now it will be Hagg. After he's gone it will be Morin if he's still around.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

This fan base isn't happy unless there is a whipping boy. AMac is gone so now it will be Hagg. After he's gone it will be Morin if he's still around.

Braun has been positioned this summer to inherit AMac’s whipping boy slot.

 

[dragonoffrost]

Braun has been positioned this summer to inherit AMac’s whipping boy slot.

Nah the Hagg hate is getting high.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nah the Hagg hate is getting high.

Oh, Hagg is Captain Whipping Boy, for sure. Was last season. But Braun will be the new alternate.

 

[1865]

There's just no sense of context or scale with this fanbase. When we're bad the world is ending. When we're good we're unbeatable. Our prospects are amazing or worthless. Our players are great or terrible.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

There's just no sense of context or scale with this fanbase. When we're bad the world is ending. When we're good we're unbeatable. Our prospects are amazing or worthless. Our players are great or terrible.

Pretty accurate.

We're an overdramatic bunch.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg is a #6/#7 D-man with upside with the right coach and partner. He cratered last year because he played 723 ES minutes with Gudas, AMac and Folin. Gudas was a horrid match b/c he lacks puck skills, guess what Hagg's biggest weakness is?

It's not just talent but fit. I think Hagg would be a passable 3rd D-man if you partnered him with someone like Friedman, who can skate and carry the puck. He needs hard coaching in terms of positioning, not chasing hits, using his strength around the net to clear the crease, etc. He's not going to be a top 4 defensemen, but there are lots of guys with his skill set who've put together 10 year careers by embracing a limited role. It's just not going to happen here b/c we have more talented alternatives. But Morin may turn out to be a similar player.

Most marginal players are like that, they have value in the right role but the fact you have to protect them makes them less valuable overall. One reason they traded Gudas is that his production is predicated on the right role and partner - not worth an expensive extension. So they jumped at the chance to get a more talented RHD. Braun is also limited, but has a much better PO track record than Gudas.

There's no reason to trash marginal players for being marginal - too many and it becomes impossible for a HC to protect all of them, and you see them get exposed and become the scapegoat of the month. But that's primarily the GM's fault for not obtaining better talent.

 

[TB87]

I think you just expect too much from a 6/7 guy, that's all. Hagg isn't what i'd like to see, but a disaster is AMac on the top line, the Bryz contract or Morin's injuries. It's not a guy playing 20 games in a 5 minute capacity. If he didn't suck, he wouldn't be a #6.

Expecting league average #6D play isn’t much of an ask at all. He doesn’t provide that. If a player is seriously limited, it’s fair when many in this fanbase critique that player. Just because a defenseman is 6th on the depth chart doesn’t mean fans need to blindly accept play from that player that is subpar. Expecting a #6 to complete routine passes also isn’t much of an ask either (another area he struggles).

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Expecting league average #6D play isn’t much of an ask at all. He doesn’t provide that. If a player is seriously limited, it’s fair when many in this fanbase critique that player. Just because a defenseman is 6th on the depth chart doesn’t mean fans need to blindly accept play from that player that is subpar. Expecting a #6 to complete routine passes also is much of an ask either (another area he struggles).

Can you name a few “league average” 6th defensemen? Not the above average ones, but middle of the pack around the league, so we can get an idea of your benchmark?

 

[Adam Warlock]

If Hagg is here in october, he will find his way into the line up eventually one way or another. He needs to go.

Morin cant be the 8 D. He needs to actually get a chance at some point.

 

[Tripod]

In 1.5 years under Hak:

Hagg was 4th in TOI playing 18:18 per game....meanwhile Sanheim was 8th playing 15:47. Lots of Hagg's hatred came because Hakstol was playing a much worse Dman, more minutes than he deserved.

Funny to see Hagg "supporters" saying he isn't a top 4 Dman, yet had no issue with him getting those minutes all along....even THIS PAST YEAR.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You guys just wait until Hagg gets easier 3rd pair minutes. He's going to take off.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Oh, Hagg is Captain Whipping Boy, for sure. Was last season. But Braun will be the new alternate.

The response to Braun is amazing. Sharks fans saw him constantly for a really long time and mostly acknowledge his limitations while appreciating his strengths. Then before he’s skated a minute of practice in a Flyers uniform we’ve had people bemoaning or downright mischaracterizing his game.

As for the Hagg #6 debate...he is that, you obviously want a better one, but having him as your #6 isn’t the death of a team. The Penguins won back-to-back Cups with some absolute garbage on their third pair, the Flyers’ last Finals appearance included even worse players. I’d quite easily take Hagg over Folin, not sure who else in recent years though.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Morin literally almost made the team out of camp in 2014 and quite frankly every year since deserved ice time over the likes of Gnome, Amac, Manning, Medvedev washed up Schenn, Streit, Schultz or even Mdz at points. Funny thing is even this year he didn't see any ice time, because he doesn't have nhl experience and can not be trusted lol. These last year we saw all kinds of garbage play instead of giving some of the young guys look to see what we have in them. Weal eventually got a break because of injuries, but Voro, Martel or NAK this year not so much. Also who here remembers this Kostalek is way better than Morin takes from Jets fans lol?

 

[Rebels57]

Let's calm the hyerbole a little bit on this. If he's a 6/7 it's not really a disaster is it? He's **** of course, but we've bemoaned and ridiculed every #6 we've had since i started writing on here a decade ago. Maybe we need to re-evaluate what a #6 should be.

How could Hagg possibly be a 6 with the following 6 defensemen above him and locks for the opening night lineup?

1. Provorov
2. Ghost
3. Sanheim
4. Niskanen
5. Myers
6. Braun

If you want to call him a 7/8 (along with Morin), that makes more sense.

I hope he's gone before camp and not on the 23 man roster at all, but if he is, it won't be a "disaster" as long as he is not in the gameday lineup.

 

[Striiker]

The response to Braun is amazing. Sharks fans saw him constantly for a really long time and mostly acknowledge his limitations while appreciating his strengths. Then before he’s skated a minute of practice in a Flyers uniform we’ve had people bemoaning or downright mischaracterizing his game.

As for the Hagg #6 debate...he is that, you obviously want a better one, but having him as your #6 isn’t the death of a team. The Penguins won back-to-back Cups with some absolute garbage on their third pair, the Flyers’ last Finals appearance included even worse players. I’d quite easily take Hagg over Folin, not sure who else in recent years though.

Your repeatedly flawed evaluation (or memory) of Hagg takes credibility away from your evaluation of Braun.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Your repeatedly flawed evaluation (or memory) of Hagg takes credibility away from your evaluation of Braun.

What, misremembering that he had a bad season in the AHL? Sure. I was deep off in the world of Phantoms analysis in the lone year I lived in Nashville . That shit was my top priority.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

How could Hagg possibly be a 6 with the following 6 defensemen above him and locks for the opening night lineup?

1. Provorov
2. Ghost
3. Sanheim
4. Niskanen
5. Myers
6. Braun

If you want to call him a 7/8 (along with Morin), that makes more sense.

I hope he's gone before camp and not on the 23 man roster at all, but if he is, it won't be a "disaster" as long as he is not in the gameday lineup.

In my mind he is like one injury away from every day role and most likely blocking Myers because that would be peak flyera.