Salary Cap: Trade Thread # LXVI: Well..... Were waiting!?!?

[Gurglesons]

If Kapanen was playing well this year, I probably wouldn't be that interested in Garland, yeah. Like I posted above, adding Garland is adding another similar to what the Penguins have added over the years. But the reason I'd do that now is that Kapanen has gone to absolute shit, and the Penguins don't have the luxury of waiting to see if Kapanen can figure it out.

To me, Garland is what Kapanen is supposed to be. Using a redundant but valuable trade chip in POJ to go from a struggling Kapanen to a normal Kapanen is something I have no reservations about doing. If Kapanen wasn't struggling, there would be no reason to make the trade. However, with him struggling, they need to get a guy who can be performing near Kapanen's expected level.

If Kapanen was performing at the level I expected him, which is a 20 goal, 50 point 2nd line winger, I wouldn't want to add a Garland caliber player and I would be happy to give Kapanen the same contract that Garland got. But with Kapanen struggling and the Penguins needing to have better now, I don't see a problem with using Kapanen and a trade chip like POJ to get a guy who is at that 20 goal, 50 point 2nd line winger level.

I guess that is fair. I just don't like the idea of taking on a huge contract like that for Kapanen.

 

[Turin]

Manson sucks compared to Marino and got a 2nd and a decent prospect despite being a rental.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is he really though? He's not a better pure shooter than our healthy top six outside of Kappy.

He's a better pure shooter than any winger not named Guentzel or Rust. Which is kind of the point of acquiring him (or someone like him) to upgrade Malkin's line with someone who can actually pick corners and not just chest snipe.

 

[Gurglesons]

More numbers, less feelings.
Who cares if he's no different if he boosts scoring? Our problem is depth scoring on L2 and cohesion with Malkin

It's not rocket science.

Garland's my 3rd choice out of the 3 players we've shown interest in with Vancouver, but he's still formidable.

Fair, but numbers have their faults too. I've seen Garland in person a few times. He's not a skill add IMO.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's a better pure shooter than any winger not named Guentzel or Rust. Which is kind of the point of acquiring him (or someone like him) to upgrade Malkin's line with someone who can actually pick corners and not just chest snipe.

Is he actually a better pure shooter than Zucker?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I guess that is fair. I just don't like the idea of taking on a huge contract like that for Kapanen.

But like I said, if Kapanen was playing like normal, he'd just be getting that contract.

It's basically a struggling Kapanen and POJ for a normal Kapanen locked up long term.

 

[Gurglesons]

But like I said, if Kapanen was playing like normal, he'd just be getting that contract.

It's basically a struggling Kapanen and POJ for a normal Kapanen locked up long term.

I wouldn't have given Kapanen that contract. I would've low balled him.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is he actually a better pure shooter than Zucker?

Yes? I mean Zucker's not even a "pure shooter". At his best Zucker's a speedy guy who has decent hands around the net for tap ins/deflections/rebounds, but he's not really good at stickhandling or deking the goalie and scoring that way, nor is he a guy who'll consistently find the corners.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes? I mean Zucker's not even a "pure shooter". At his best Zucker's a speedy guy who has decent hands around the net for tap ins/deflections/rebounds, but he's not really good at stickhandling or deking the goalie and scoring that way, nor is he a guy who'll consistently find the corners.

Hm. I disagree on both these concepts.

Do you think Sheary is a better pure shooter than Garland?

 

[Turin]

I don’t think Garland and Kapanen play even close to the same game. Kapanen last year was kinda bad defensively but was finishing at elite levels. The hope was that he’d find a middle ground next to Malkin but instead his finishing is totally gone. He’s been wildly inconsistent in his career and is a very, very psychologically affected player who swings between awesome and very bad. Garland is year in and year out a good .6 ppg winger who isn’t a PP guy who doesn’t hurt you defensively. A lot like Kunitz in Anaheim as far as I can tell, with a bit more skill but smaller.

 

[Peat]

I just don't really see the point of spending assets on a player that is going to be a 20 goal 30 assist guy at best. It seems we can plug and play slightly worse results for no assets and cheaper term / salary.

Right now this very moment no, no we can't just plug and play to get slightly worse results. We have a gaping void in terms of support for Malkin and it's going to make a run impossible. If we don't get a fresh option we're hoping for a massive turnaround from someone.

In general I'd rather not spend big on these good but not elite guys, but realistically finding cheap options doesn't always work.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right now this very moment no, no we can't just plug and play to get slightly worse results. We have a gaping void in terms of support for Malkin and it's going to make a run impossible. If we don't get a fresh option we're hoping for a massive turnaround from someone.

In general I'd rather not spend big on these good but not elite guys, but realistically finding cheap options doesn't always work.

Yeah, I'd rather just run with the roster we have.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Manson sucks compared to Marino and got a 2nd and a decent prospect despite being a rental.

He got a 2023 2nd and Helleson and like 2.0 in retention.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

If I hit refresh enough times, a trade will finally happen.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If I hit refresh enough times, a trade will finally happen.

Finger - F5

 

[Gurglesons]

That Manson trade does make me think Marino probably has decent value.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yes? I mean Zucker's not even a "pure shooter". At his best Zucker's a speedy guy who has decent hands around the net for tap ins/deflections/rebounds, but he's not really good at stickhandling or deking the goalie and scoring that way, nor is he a guy who'll consistently find the corners.

And lacks the self-confidence to even try, to be honest. If he had ERod's sense of self-belief he woulda succeeded here.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Fair, but numbers have their faults too. I've seen Garland in person a few times. He's not a skill add IMO.

What matters is if his playstyle would cause his numbers to drop here, playing with Malkin. Those are things outside of numbers worth looking at.
We can also look at what linemates he's had to this point in his career and assess if there'd be missing elements for his linemates here, which he's always relied on.

But if he continues to score at the rate he has in his career, he is a good add.
He is much better than Kap away from the puck too. Work ethic and tenacity are trademarks of his game.

 

[MayorofWBS]

I like that Manson trade for both teams. I think the Ducks did better going with Helleson and '23 2nd than just getting the late '22 1st. Helleson was a early 2nd round pick himself and has developed even more in college. Promising, big right handed defenseman don't grow on trees.

 

[ChaosAgent]

That Manson trade does make me think Marino probably has decent value.

I mean, no poop.

Pens board whipping boi does not = value-less. Especially in a young defenseman.

 

[Gurglesons]

What matters is if his playstyle would cause his numbers to drop here, playing with Malkin. Those are things outside of numbers worth looking at.
We can also look at what linemates he's had to this point in his career and assess if there'd be missing elements for his linemates here, which he's always relied on.

But if he continues to score at the rate he has in his career, he is a good add.
He is much better than Kap away from the puck too. Work ethic and tenacity are trademarks of his game.

I just get worried about these fringe top six guys coming here. His numbers aren't much different this year than what Zucker did at 26. Then Zucker slowly got worse.

I'm really sour on the top six market outside of Forsberg and Boeser at this point. And neither is probably realistically available.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t think Garland and Kapanen play even close to the same game. Kapanen last year was kinda bad defensively but was finishing at elite levels. The hope was that he’d find a middle ground next to Malkin but instead his finishing is totally gone. He’s been wildly inconsistent in his career and is a very, very psychologically affected player who swings between awesome and very bad. Garland is year in and year out a good .6 ppg winger who isn’t a PP guy who doesn’t hurt you defensively. A lot like Kunitz in Anaheim as far as I can tell, with a bit more skill but smaller.

I don't think anyone is literally comparing Garland and Kapanen in terms of play style, I'm only comparing them in terms of ability.

I want to add Garland because I want to get a guy who produces at that 20 goal, 50 point level to replace Kapanen, since Kapanen's game has gone to shit.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, no poop.

Pens board whipping boi does not = value-less. Especially in a young defenseman.

I didn’t think he was valueless, just figured he would need an add to get Boeser.

 

[Turin]

Probably worth it for Colorado even if all Manson does is help them do one thing slightly better. They’re all in and the favourites for the Cup. Anaheim got a decent return but definitely waited too long to trade him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Did the board just shit itself for anyone else where no one was able to post anything new for like half an hour?