Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals PART XIXI

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'm laughing at people who think a 26 year-old Seth Jones signing here and being Chabot's partner for many years as we continue improving with the core is a bad idea.

Come on man.

There are many considerations that you're leaving out, mostly around salary. My view:

1) I think there is great value in taking a strong line that no one be paid more than Chabot unless they are unquestionably deserving.
2) I think we can get more out of the 9-10mil it will take to sign Jones by spreading it across 3 bridge deals.
3) Jones, while possessing incredible tools, has not been playing his best hockey and, imo, would not play well to Chabot's strengths.
4) Jones is a question mark in the room... not saying he is a problem, but I think there could be dissonance between him & our leadership group. He's a bit older but not yet a vet, apparently has had some small but real issues in Columbus (again, not saying he's a bad guy, but he's a big part of a room that has struggled to be cohesive)
5) The prospect cost would be very high in addition to the salary cost.

I am not against Jones nearly as much as I am against high-profile UFAs. I suspect that is the case for most people.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Defence wins championships.

Chabot-Zub
Sanderson-Jones

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I’d rather take a run at Hamilton than Jones if we have to go for a big D add. They both have about the same chance of signing a contract with us, and Hamilton is a much better player.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Who trades Brady for Matthews or Marner today ? I think Brady’s price just went up.

A big hell no to Marner.

He would be a horrible fit in the room. Big ego with an interfering daddy who runs and hides from any and all physical play. Exactly the opposite of what we're trying to build here.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Who trades Brady for Matthews or Marner today ? I think Brady’s price just went up.

It would be hard to say no to Matthews. Marner is the easiest pass I’d ever make though. Not sure I’d trade anything for him unless there was salary retention.

 

[PlayOn]

I’ll gladly take Marner on my team. How many players were playoff chokers until they weren’t? I recall people questioning Alfie until 2007 and then he became a God in this city.

Marner will figure it out. I don’t think it’s easy playing for a market like Toronto, if you’re struggling it’s likely to snowball because of the immense pressure. He’s still young and has plenty left in him as one of the best wingers in the NHL.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I’ll gladly take Marner on my team. How many players were playoff chokers until they weren’t? I recall people questioning Alfie until 2007 and then he became a God in this city.

Marner will figure it out. I don’t think it’s easy playing for a market like Toronto, if you’re struggling it’s likely to snowball because of the immense pressure. He’s still young and has plenty left in him as one of the best wingers in the NHL.

He’s an excellent player, but his cap hit just wouldn’t work on our team. It’s not about adding Marner but about subtracting everything we would need to to make room for him.

 

[PlayOn]

He’s an excellent player, but his cap hit just wouldn’t work on our team. It’s not about adding Marner but about subtracting everything we would need to to make room for him.

well in that case, I agree. We can’t really pay anyone 11 million here, and if we do it would have to be nothing short of a top 5 NHL player.

eta: on second thought, I checked his salary structure on capfriendly and outside of his signing bonuses which we cannot afford, his remaining contract is perfect for a non cap team. Only makes 8 mil or so after this season. We don’t need another winger and the signing bonuses are unrealistic for Melnyk so I’m not advocating for it, but the contract isn’t crazy for a non cap team.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

He’s an excellent player, but his cap hit just wouldn’t work on our team. It’s not about adding Marner but about subtracting everything we would need to to make room for him.

It can work. You can get rid of Dadonov in the deal and maybe even Murray (but not really necessary). After his bonus is paid on July 1, Marner will only cost an average salary of close to $6 million per season.

 

[Sweatred]

It can work. You can get rid of Dadonov in the deal and maybe even Murray (but not really necessary). After his bonus is paid on July 1, Marner will only cost an average salary of close to $6 million per season.

I’m not serious and more just commenting on Brady’s value - but the question was who would you prefer ? Marner or Brady ?

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I’m not serious and more just commenting on Brady’s value - but the question was who would you prefer ? Marner or Brady ?

Brady. But he won’t cost nearly as much and a value doesn’t have anything to do with what happened this series

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don’t think dubas trades anyone big. It’s just not smart.

 

[Masked]

I’ll gladly take Marner on my team. How many players were playoff chokers until they weren’t? I recall people questioning Alfie until 2007 and then he became a God in this city.

Oh, please. Don't compare a guy like Marner, who is butter soft and has never produced in the playoffs, to Alfie, who was criticized for not leading the team over the Leafs and the defeat in 2006 but produced in the playoffs and clearly played hard.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Doing a bit of browsing on the Toronto boards (the Marner post playoffs II thread, to be exact), it sounds like his ego is bigger than many thought. There's a post there from some reporter/media person talking about the powerplay and Marner not wanting to work along the wall for whatever reason, even though it was thier most successful setup. If there's any truth to it, his toxic attitude really isn't something you want in the room at any cap hit.

 

[PlayOn]

Oh, please. Don't compare a guy like Marner, who is butter soft and has never produced in the playoffs, to Alfie, who was criticized for not leading the team over the Leafs and the defeat in 2006 but produced in the playoffs and clearly played hard.

I’m not really comparing the two so much as I’m saying that lots of people get criticized and go on to have more success as they gain experience, for all kinds of reasons. Having very little playoff success at 24 isn’t the end of the world, just means Marner will have to adapt and usually players of his calibre do.

If however what @Nac Mac Feegle is saying is true, that’s another story.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ottawa hockey insiders speculate on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to the Senators. Hmmm | Edmonton Journal

Stutzle-RNH-Batherson
Tkachuk-Norris-Brown
Formenton-Pinto-White
Paul-Brown-Dadonov

????????

Cap isn't going up for another 3 years maybe? Would RNH would be interested at 6.0 x 3 years? If he can produce well in those 3 years, he'd be able to get one last good contract for 3-4 years... But as of now, who would offer him 7 years x 6.0?

The majority of teams have better centers and/or are up against the cap. Take Montreal for example and if they wanted to sign him, don't think they could. They already might struggle to find space to re-sign Danault and/or Armia.

I'd rather get Kuznetsov than RNH so if he is not too costly to acquire then we should go after him. His contract term left (4 years) is perfect.

 

[Micklebot]

This is kind of funny all the talk about Brady in the playoff . Better than Marner , KK , Mathews. If we can wait to see him in a playoff before talk

Quite funny indeed particularly given that his father who had many of the same attributes wasn't exactly a playoff monster.

 

[GCK]

So it is over money. He said it was, the team seems to say it was.

I don’t understand this theory that they made a good move by not giving Alfie a contract. Stupid move, but even stupider reasons

So paying Alfie 8M to make up for perceived underpayment would have been a good move ? Alfie’s pride got in the way.

 

[Boud]

Stutzle-RNH-Batherson
Tkachuk-Norris-Brown
Formenton-Pinto-White
Paul-Brown-Dadonov

????????

Cap isn't going up for another 3 years maybe? Would RNH would be interested at 6.0 x 3 years? If he can produce well in those 3 years, he'd be able to get one last good contract for 3-4 years... But as of now, who would offer him 7 years x 6.0?

The majority of teams have better centers and/or are up against the cap. Take Montreal for example and if they wanted to sign him, don't think they could. They already might struggle to find space to re-sign Danault and/or Armia.

I'd rather get Kuznetsov than RNH so if he is not too costly to acquire then we should go after him. His contract term left (4 years) is perfect.

In the last 4 years, over more than 250 games, RNH has averaged 66 points/ 82 games playing primarily as a shutdown center for Edmonton. If Pageau can get a 6 years x 5M contract then I have no doubt RNH would easily get 7 x 6M.

A guy that can play 2nd line minutes and be good at both ends of the ice is extremely valuable. Especially when you see the guy puts up very solid numbers. We're in a time where guys like Kevin Hayes get paid 6M+ a year so RNH should get that no problem with the limited availability of centers on the market and teams always looking to add guys down the middle. RNH is in that Norris mold and I would not hesitate to give Norris that type of contract if he keeps up his play.

I don't necessarily want him here partly because of that and how such a contract could potentially backfire but he's probably one of the best options out there right now. Kuzy is nice but with the questions surrounding his behavior and effort I don't see the team going for him.

Like others have said I think the best option is to wait for an opportunity to make a good hockey trade. We don't absolutely need to add a center for next season, we still have Norris, Pinto, White, Tierney. Some more attractive players will inevitably become available as the next season unfolds but for RNH he will get a nice contract IMO.

 

[trentmccleary]

I'm laughing at people who think a 26 year-old Seth Jones signing here and being Chabot's partner for many years as we continue improving with the core is a bad idea.

Come on man.

Because 50% of the time these deals go very badly.

It's always pitched as:
- the other team will accept Logan Brown, Brannstrom and a 2nd rounder.
- the player will surely want to re-sign with us.
- he'll definitely do it as a reasonable salary ($6.5-7.5 million), because he wants to win as much as the fans do.

Then reality sinks in, the deal goes down:
- it's Norris, Sanderson and an unprotected 2022 first rounder that winds up being top-5.
- there are rumours that he wants to test the market.
- in a panic, our GM signs him for $11 million for 10 years. Which we've given up hope that the player will ever live up to by year 3. By year 5, Sens fans using the buyout calculator on Capfriendly accounts for 10% of their traffic.

Most of our young players just started last season. They haven't even come close to maximizing their value.
These deals regularly make teams feel like the Islanders acquiring Alexei Yashin. We just went through this with Bobby Ryan and Matt Duchene. Heck, as disappointing as Dadonov was this season... he nearly doubled Matt Duchene's point total for half the salary.

 

[HSF]

I’ll gladly take Marner on my team. How many players were playoff chokers until they weren’t? I recall people questioning Alfie until 2007 and then he became a God in this city.

Marner will figure it out. I don’t think it’s easy playing for a market like Toronto, if you’re struggling it’s likely to snowball because of the immense pressure. He’s still young and has plenty left in him as one of the best wingers in the NHL.

he makes too much on the cap

way better off going for Eichel at that point

 

[TheNewEra]

Ottawa hockey insiders speculate on Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to the Senators. Hmmm | Edmonton Journal

if the quote in the article is accurate "but he’s an OK bet on a three or four year deal in the range of $5.0 to $6.0 million per season, say three years at $6.0 million per or four years at $5.0 million per. " then sign me up

otherwise no thanks

 

[Tuna99]

So paying Alfie 8M to make up for perceived underpayment would have been a good move ? Alfie’s pride got in the way.

no, trading and overpaying for Bobby Ryan and giving him $8 million for 8 years was the right move - not giving Alfie 1 year at $7 million when he was easily a $7 million player was the right move

 

[TheNewEra]

So paying Alfie 8M to make up for perceived underpayment would have been a good move ? Alfie’s pride got in the way.

it depends on which story you follow. If it is the fact that this was all on alfie, then sure alfies pride got in the way. If it is the fact that Alfie was promised to be made whole down the road then the team royally misled and ****ed it up.

That being said giving a legacy player a 1 year deal would have been the way to go. Alfie to us especially at that time is like Ovie to the Caps, Crosby to the Pens etc

 

[SENATOR]

What if the league will start calling holding, late hits and interference during playoffs. Then Marner's price will skyrocket. I can not imagine TNT and ESPN will agree with that kind of a "product" to promote, they paid big bucks for.
When NBA now calls everything and even more during playoffs.