Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 PART VIII

[Boud]

Curious who you guys see as your starting goalie next season? Anderson expected to retire? I know you have Gustavsson and Hogberg but neither is ready for starting duties just yet.

Nilsson starts and Hogberg is the back-up.

Based on how Hogberg played last season I would expect them to split starts.

 

[JD1]

If Pietrangelo was a tenable option, I think we'd be foolish not to try for him... but I think there are hurdles that neither the organization nor the player would be willing/able to overcome in order to make it happen.

If we had model ownership, I think we would be the most appealing we've ever been to FAs... but obviously that's not the case

I don't see any scenario where this team acquires a high end piece with a big contract except possibly a young player on a longer RFA deal.

The cupboards are pretty full. And they are about to get more full, to the point of overflowing. Many here think that Melnyk is a vindictive SOB. In my view, there'd probably be nothing more satisfying to him than to see this stable of prospects mature into a force just so he could give the fanbase the finger and say i told you so.

Acquiring a high end UFA talent alters the plan, shifts the timeline. It really disrupts the salary structure we are heading into. I don't see it happening

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I don't see any scenario where this team acquires a high end piece with a big contract except possibly a young player on a longer RFA deal.

The cupboards are pretty full. And they are about to get more full, to the point of overflowing. Many here think that Melnyk is a vindictive SOB. In my view, there'd probably be nothing more satisfying to him than to see this stable of prospects mature into a force just so he could give the fanbase the finger and say i told you so.

Acquiring a high end UFA talent alters the plan, shifts the timeline. It really disrupts the salary structure we are heading into. I don't see it happening

With an AHL team that challenged for 1st with most of its contributors 22 and younger, two top 5 picks in a deeeep top end draft and 2 star young players (Tkachuk and Chabot) hitting their peak, we’ll need to start our compete for playoffs in the next two years.

All that young talent’s gotta be insulated and supported someway. Whether through big trades or big signings. Not saying we getting Pie but signing a big time UFA or acquiring big name player in the next couple offseasons should be exactly what we are supposed to do. At worst legit top 6ers/top 4s

It’s what contenders have done in the past in situation similar to us.

Next year we gonna have Batherson Brown Brannstrom and likely Norris and Formenton with the big team most/chunk of the season. We can’t afford to tank because then it means these guys seriously underperformed. We gotta start creating a winning culture. 2 picks in the top 5 this year, and possibly 3 picks in top 15 with 4 seconds has seriously accelerated the rebuild.

I’m not saying we should be good next year but we should be bottom 10 at worst. Not bottom 5.

The year after, we should start competing for playoff spot (with Drysdale/Raymond/Perfetti joining the team and the rookies in sophomore years).

 

[JD1]

Who

With an AHL team that challenged for 1st with most of its contributors 22 and younger, two top 5 picks in a deeeep top end draft and 2 star young players (Tkachuk and Chabot) hitting their peak, we’ll need to start our compete for playoffs in the next two years.

All that young talent’s gotta be insulated and supported someway. Whether through big trades or big signings. Not saying we getting Pie but signing a big time UFA or acquiring big name player in the next couple offseasons should be exactly what we are supposed to do. At worst legit top 6ers/top 4s

It’s what contenders have done in the past in situation similar to us.

Next year we gonna have Batherson Brown Brannstrom and likely Norris and Formenton with the big team most/chunk of the season. We can’t afford to tank because then it means these guys seriously underperformed. We gotta start creating a winning culture. 2 picks in the top 5 this year, and possibly 3 picks in top 15 with 4 seconds has seriously accelerated the rebuild.

I’m not saying we should be good next year but we should be bottom 10 at worst. Not bottom 5.

The year after, we should start competing for playoff spot (with Drysdale/Raymond/Perfetti joining the team and the rookies in sophomore years).

Who did Colorado acquire to go from an epically awful season to true contender?

I understand what you are saying but i don't agree that it is necessary or that the team will do this.

 

[JD1]

With an AHL team that challenged for 1st with most of its contributors 22 and younger, two top 5 picks in a deeeep top end draft and 2 star young players (Tkachuk and Chabot) hitting their peak, we’ll need to start our compete for playoffs in the next two years.

All that young talent’s gotta be insulated and supported someway. Whether through big trades or big signings. Not saying we getting Pie but signing a big time UFA or acquiring big name player in the next couple offseasons should be exactly what we are supposed to do. At worst legit top 6ers/top 4s

It’s what contenders have done in the past in situation similar to us.

Next year we gonna have Batherson Brown Brannstrom and likely Norris and Formenton with the big team most/chunk of the season. We can’t afford to tank because then it means these guys seriously underperformed. We gotta start creating a winning culture. 2 picks in the top 5 this year, and possibly 3 picks in top 15 with 4 seconds has seriously accelerated the rebuild.

I’m not saying we should be good next year but we should be bottom 10 at worst. Not bottom 5.

The year after, we should start competing for playoff spot (with Drysdale/Raymond/Perfetti joining the team and the rookies in sophomore years).

Who did Colorado acquire that fits your bill to go from an historically awful season to protector? Who is insulating their talent?

I understand what you are saying but i don't agree with it nor do I think it is necessary.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

With an AHL team that challenged for 1st with most of its contributors 22 and younger, two top 5 picks in a deeeep top end draft and 2 star young players (Tkachuk and Chabot) hitting their peak, we’ll need to start our compete for playoffs in the next two years.

All that young talent’s gotta be insulated and supported someway. Whether through big trades or big signings. Not saying we getting Pie but signing a big time UFA or acquiring big name player in the next couple offseasons should be exactly what we are supposed to do. At worst legit top 6ers/top 4s

It’s what contenders have done in the past in situation similar to us.

Next year we gonna have Batherson Brown Brannstrom and likely Norris and Formenton with the big team most/chunk of the season. We can’t afford to tank because then it means these guys seriously underperformed. We gotta start creating a winning culture. 2 picks in the top 5 this year, and possibly 3 picks in top 15 with 4 seconds has seriously accelerated the rebuild.

I’m not saying we should be good next year but we should be bottom 10 at worst. Not bottom 5.

The year after, we should start competing for playoff spot (with Drysdale/Raymond/Perfetti joining the team and the rookies in sophomore years).

this is what i been saying man you know... galchenyuk really insulate stutzle and raymond hes perfect for the role. maybe his dad can come storm the locker room and get the guys jacked up too.

 

[Micklebot]

Who did Colorado acquire that fits your bill to go from an historically awful season to protector? Who is insulating their talent?

I understand what you are saying but i don't agree with it nor do I think it is necessary.

Colorado went the trade route, Kadri was a big upgrade on Kerfoot, and Burakovsky was picked up for futures filling out the top 6. Trading Duchene got them Girard which along with Makar allowed them to move on from Barrie.

Also worth pointing out MacKinnon has 7 seasons under his belt, and Landeskog has 9, Erik Johnson has 12 years, so they're doing the insulating. Heck even Burakovski has 6 and Rantanen has 4 full seasons, their team is young but not as green as ours is (for obvious reasons).

I do agree in that I don't think we need to go after a UFA, we should take our time and allow our big pieces from this draft to develop, by which point, Chabot and Tkachuk will be the savvy vets and guys like Norris, Batherson ect will be the young kids with enough experience to not be green anymore.

I also think Colorado's historically awful season is a bit unique, they were a 39 wins team under Roy the year before, but he unexpectedly cut bait on them right before the start of the season leaving them rudderless right before training camp. The roster Bednar took over wasn't that much worse then the one Roy had, I think their terrible season had less to do with the talent and more to do with the turmoil. We, on the other hand, striped things bare compared to our last reasonably successful (in fairness, it was very successful) season (we also had lots of turmoil prior to that).

 

[JD1]

Colorado went the trade route, Kadri was a big upgrade on Kerfoot, and Burakovsky was picked up for futures filling out the top 6. Trading Duchene got them Girard which along with Makar allowed them to move on from Barrie.

Also worth pointing out MacKinnon has 7 seasons under his belt, and Landeskog has 9, Erik Johnson has 12 years, so they're doing the insulating. Heck even Burakovski has 6 and Rantanen has 4 full seasons, their team is young but not as green as ours is (for obvious reasons).

I do agree in that I don't think we need to go after a UFA, we should take our time and allow our big pieces from this draft to develop, by which point, Chabot and Tkachuk will be the savvy vets and guys like Norris, Batherson ect will be the young kids with enough experience to not be green anymore.

I also think Colorado's historically awful season is a bit unique, they were a 39 wins team under Roy the year before, but he unexpectedly cut bait on them right before the start of the season leaving them rudderless right before training camp. The roster Bednar took over wasn't that much worse then the one Roy had, I think their terrible season had less to do with the talent and more to do with the turmoil. We, on the other hand, striped things bare compared to our last reasonably successful (in fairness, it was very successful) season (we also had lots of turmoil prior to that).

The Kadri acquisition was not an insulating trade, they moved out Barrie in that deal.

What i replied to was about insulating and i said Colorado did not do that.

And they didn't. Nothing you've said here deals with insulating.

 

[Mosby]

Nilsson starts and Hogberg is the back-up.

Based on how Hogberg played last season I would expect them to split starts.

Thanks. Where is Nilsson at concussion wise? I like him but is he good enough to play 40-plus games? It’s important the Senators win more games this year to take the next step.

I write this as an Arizona fan who thinks Raanta is on the way out due to cap constraints. Injuries aside (most of which have been fluky or terrible luck) he’s been one of the best goalies statistically since coming to the NHL. He’s also very cheap next season too, only 2.25 mil in real cash as his bonus has already been paid, so have to figure Ottawa ownership would like that.

 

[Micklebot]

The Kadri acquisition was not an insulating trade, they moved out Barrie in that deal.

What i replied to was about insulating and i said Colorado did not do that.

And they didn't. Nothing you've said here deals with insulating.

Does MacKinnon with his 7 years NHL experience need insulating, Jack Johnson and his 12 years, Landeskog and his 9 years? They were in a different play than we are, their best players were the ones doing the insulating. Maybe I missed it, but you're the only one talking about Colorado, I don't think we're comparable because they already had guys in place to do the insulating, and instead needed depth so as to not overburden their top talent, insulate probably isn't the best term for what they did, but it's also not what they needed. Guys 7+ years into their career leading the team don't need insulation, they need support.

Yes, they gave up Barrie (who was a liability in his own right, so not sure he really did much insulating) but Kadri did help fill out the forward group. Makar and Girard made that move possible, and Johnson, Zadorov and to a lesser degree Cole gave them the experience needed to balance the youth those guys brought.

I guess the tldr version for me is Colorado didn't need players to insulate their rising stars when they turned things around while an argument can be made that we do.

 

[Xspyrit]

And exactly what Bileur is saying regarding Colorado. It's not because they got rid of Duchene that they suddenly became good, maybe it allowed MacKinnon to take it to another level but then other young stars all "broke out" at the same time, which is a perfect storm. And then they continued to inject some young talent. Which is about what I see happening for the Sens. Guys like Chabot, Batherson, Norris, Tkachuk, Brannstrom will start getting better along with the 3rd OA, then we will continue to inject the 5th OA, JBD, Pinto, Formenton, etc.

If they are trading Eichel, they should probably ask for 3+5 as a starting point.

Who is our top prospect? Brannstrom or Norris? So in a best case scenario, what you're proposing is 5+13+Brannstrom or Norris. I don't think that comes close to getting it done.

I think it is really unrealistic they'd trade Eichel in the first place, but if they did they'd be looking at 3 as one of the pieces because that gets them Byfield or Stutzle to replace their 1C position in the future.

With that said, I believe that when teams trade a player of Eichel's age and status, they usually make a bad trade. So I guess anything is possible...Go back to Seguin, Thornton, Hall, Ryan O'Reilly (COL), etc. Teams who trade those types of players at a young age usually make bad deals, because usually if a team will trade that player, they aren't making the best choices, and for some reason have soured on the player and are motivated to move on. Although, I doubt that is the situation in Buffalo.

If that's the asking price for Eichel, then he is untradable, particularly with top-5 picks in THIS draft. I doubt anyone would pay a price like that. Brannstrom and Norris were also relatively high 1st round picks who could be on their way to outplay their draft position. If 3 high end 1st round picks isn't close to get it done, a GM would be good for the asylum to even pursue it. Eichel is great and everything but he's no McDavid.

Personnally, I'd rather have 3rd + 5th + Brannstrom/Norris.

The other proposals including the 3rd or 5th OA mentionned by others I'd do it but not BOTH top-5 picks. Those assets are invaluable for a market like Ottawa.

Curious who you guys see as your starting goalie next season? Anderson expected to retire? I know you have Gustavsson and Hogberg but neither is ready for starting duties just yet.

Hogberg turns 26 y/o before the start of next season. If he is not ready to play regularly in the NHL, chances are that he never will. The plan looks to be a Nilsson/Hogberg duo and the one playing the best plays the most. The plan is not to win the Cup so it could be a make or break for Hogberg at the NHL level.

Thanks. Where is Nilsson at concussion wise? I like him but is he good enough to play 40-plus games? It’s important the Senators win more games this year to take the next step.

I write this as an Arizona fan who thinks Raanta is on the way out due to cap constraints. Injuries aside (most of which have been fluky or terrible luck) he’s been one of the best goalies statistically since coming to the NHL. He’s also very cheap next season too, only 2.25 mil in real cash as his bonus has already been paid, so have to figure Ottawa ownership would like that.

Raanta for Nilsson + 2nd

Personally, I'd do it. Raanta perfect until one of the young goalies claim to be better (Daccord, Hogberg, Sogaard, Gustavsson and Mandolese)

 

[Bileur]

The Kadri acquisition was not an insulating trade, they moved out Barrie in that deal.

What i replied to was about insulating and i said Colorado did not do that.

And they didn't. Nothing you've said here deals with insulating.

I think Mick’s second paragraph partially addresses the question.

Colorado is much further along in their rebuild. What allowed their leap forward was significant development from their young guys, in particular Mackinnon going from 53 to 97 points, Landeskog from 33 to 62 points and Rantanen from 38 to 84.

When Mackinnon and Landeskog were making their way into the league they were effectively insulated by guys like Duchene, O’Reilly, Statsny, Iginla, Tanguay, François Beauchemin, Max Talbot and Erik Johnson. They had veterans around to help share the load when they were developing and are now able to carry the load themselves. Maybe they still develop into the stars they are without it, who knows, but they certainly were insulted in their first years.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Who did Colorado acquire that fits your bill to go from an historically awful season to protector? Who is insulating their talent?

I understand what you are saying but i don't agree with it nor do I think it is necessary.

Are you saying we are like Colorado was at that point?

 

[JD1]

Does MacKinnon with his 7 years NHL experience need insulating, Jack Johnson and his 12 years, Landeskog and his 9 years? They were in a different play than we are, their best players were the ones doing the insulating. Maybe I missed it, but you're the only one talking about Colorado, I don't think we're comparable because they already had guys in place to do the insulating, and instead needed depth so as to not overburden their top talent, insulate probably isn't the best term for what they did, but it's also not what they needed. Guys 7+ years into their career leading the team don't need insulation, they need support.

Yes, they gave up Barrie (who was a liability in his own right, so not sure he really did much insulating) but Kadri did help fill out the forward group. Makar and Girard made that move possible, and Johnson, Zadorov and to a lesser degree Cole gave them the experience needed to balance the youth those guys brought.

I guess the tldr version for me is Colorado didn't need players to insulate their rising stars when they turned things around while an argument can be made that we do.

MacKinnon was not insulated, that's my point.....the RKL post was about acquiring top 6 F talent and top 4 D talent to insulate our players.....beyond what is currently there to insulate....with guys like Ansimov, Ryan, Tierney etc.....I don't see this team acquiring talent to insulate our younger players which was the point I initially made..... if you think we need to add top 6 F talent or top 4 D talent to insulate down the road please go ahead and indicate why....and i'll be happy to address that with my thoughts.....and then we can have a discussion.....

 

[Micklebot]

MacKinnon was not insulated, that's my point.....the RKL post was about acquiring top 6 F talent and top 4 D talent to insulate our players.....beyond what is currently there to insulate....with guys like Ansimov, Ryan, Tierney etc.....I don't see this team acquiring talent to insulate our younger players which was the point I initially made..... if you think we need to add top 6 F talent or top 4 D talent to insulate down the road please go ahead and indicate why....and i'll be happy to address that with my thoughts.....and then we can have a discussion.....

MacKinnon has 7 freaking years of experience, that's half a career for a lot of star players, he along with Landeskog ect were the one doing the insulating, that's my point

Ryan was a healthy scratch at times last year, Anismov was a cast off and bottom 6 player, Tierney is what he is, these guys aren't insulating at least not in the sense that the key guys in Colorado were.

 

[JD1]

Are you saying we are like Colorado was at that point?

What I am saying is that i do not think we will be acquiring Top 6 F or Top 4 D UFA talent to insulate what we have. We have some vet players and we have some kids....and the kids are at this point starting to drive the bus....Tkachuk and Chabot ..... I don't see us acquiring talent to insulate our youth, I see us improving thru the youth developing with whatever talent we have now....a UFA filler pick up or 2, sure, i can see that as a backstop if more time is needed for the kids, but not acquiring top 6 / top 4 talent. I cited Colorado because they are a powerhouse team at this point and they didn't go to market to acquire top 6 top 4 talent.....they moved out Duchene for youth which is the opposite of insulating....and they acquired Kadri at a point where they were already a top team and they moved out a top 4 to acquire him.....I thought it was an excellent trade on their end BTW.....it's just not acquiring UFA top 6 / top 4 which is what i initially responded to.

 

[JD1]

MacKinnon has 7 freaking years of experience, that's half a career for a lot of star players, he along with Landeskog ect were the one doing the insulating, that's my point

Ryan was a healthy scratch at times last year, Anismov was a cast off and bottom 6 player, Tierney is what he is, these guys aren't insulating at least not in the sense that the key guys in Colorado were.

perhaps Mickelbot you can start from the beginning....read what i replied to and read my reply....you are so intent on arguing with me i find it childish.....we're making the same point

 

[Sweatred]

I don't see any scenario where this team acquires a high end piece with a big contract except possibly a young player on a longer RFA deal.

The cupboards are pretty full. And they are about to get more full, to the point of overflowing. Many here think that Melnyk is a vindictive SOB. In my view, there'd probably be nothing more satisfying to him than to see this stable of prospects mature into a force just so he could give the fanbase the finger and say i told you so.

Acquiring a high end UFA talent alters the plan, shifts the timeline. It really disrupts the salary structure we are heading into. I don't see it happening

Not to mention UFA’s are generally a poor investment. Even a generational player like JT is struggling to put up even value.

That inherent inefficiency is compounded when you can’t buy your way out of problems.

 

[Micklebot]

perhaps Mickelbot you can start from the beginning....read what i replied to and read my reply....you are so intent on arguing with me i find it childish.....we're making the same point

I guess my point is we don't have MacKinnon. And when he was developing, he had Duchene Landeskog and O'Reilly, two of them moved on and he became the one insulating young guys because he was ready for that role.

Do you think Chabot and Tkachuk are ready to take on that role? I don't, but you're perfectly within your rights to disagree. We shipped off our equivalent to O'Reilly, Landeskog and Duchene at a stage much earlier in Tkachuk and Chabot's development, or for that matter the draft picks we have this year, than where MacKinnon was when Duchene left, and a bit earlier imo then when O'reilly did. MacKinnon had plenty of insulation along the way imo.

We aren't the Avs, our situation is very different from their's imo, so saying that because MacKinnon doesn't have insulating players we don't need them for Chabot, Tkachuk, 2020 3rd/OA placeholder and 5th/OA placeholder just doesn't work

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, and glad to hear you're above being childish by calling me as much, I'm just having a discussion about hockey on a hockey board. If it comes off as arguing for the sake of it, that was not my intent, my apologies for not being clear, I just tire of Colorado being used as a comparison because imo their situation is very unique, as is our own. I don't think what was right for them is necessarily right for us.

 

[thinkwild]

I have always figured if you are buying a ufa to try and become a contender, then you are not building properly.

Im ok with insulating by using ufa’s like Boro or a forward to bring character and experience on a short expendable contract. But I think to be successful we have to build a contender first, then once proven we can think of finishing touches. No more 0 year rebuilds.

There should be so many great opportunities upcoming from cap strapped teams and the expansion draft that we should be in the catbirds seat for some great deals. We can afford to wait.

If there is a team in dire straits needing to unload a great player or lose them for nothing, sure lets put in a lowball offer for the auction and see what happens. But if you are starting off the idea by saying: What do you think we’d need to offer another team in order to entice them to trade us their great player, then talk to the hand. Im not even interested in hearing the idea.

I think we are still starting the rebuild, not ending it. When we are at the point where we can throw in Batherson as part of the deal because we can replace him internally, then we can start those talks.

 

[Micklebot]

Not to mention UFA’s are generally a poor investment. Even a generational player like JT is struggling to put up even value.

That inherent inefficiency is compounded when you can’t buy your way out of problems.

I think UFA are fine when the contract length is short. Overpaying for a short term solution is fine. Picking up Hainsey last year for example might not be ideal, but for what we needed (vet presence in the room and for development of the kids more so than on the ice impact) I think it was fine. Going after Pietrangelo is not really a good strategy for us though.

 

[JD1]

Going after Pietrangelo is not really a good strategy for us though.

So, if you go up to the top of this page, not going after Pietrangelo was where i started this discussion. It is not a good strategy for us imo. Not for him and not for a ufa player of similar calibre.

 

[BondraTime]

Colorado added quite a few good pieces the past 12 or so months.

Burakovski was a top line winger, Donskoi was a 2nd like winger, Nichkushkin was a spot top 6 winger. Graves was a top pairing D for them.

 

[TheNewEra]

I think UFA are fine when the contract length is short. Overpaying for a short term solution is fine. Picking up Hainsey last year for example might not be ideal, but for what we needed (vet presence in the room and for development of the kids more so than on the ice impact) I think it was fine. Going after Pietrangelo is not really a good strategy for us though.

I agree. There was nothing wrong with Hainsey's contract length or cost if we can fit it in our budget. I think the issue most people had (and i definitely had) was that we vastly overpaid for Hainsey's skill set. If we are going to go after a veteran UFA lets get one that can contribute in our lineup a bit more. There are many options available so i really hope we dont get locked into 1 player and overpay so much. On the other hand considering its ottawa and the melnyk factor i do get the need to overpay but if we have to almost double the market value for a player to get them to sign in ottawa then we should politely walk away

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

this is what i been saying man you know... galchenyuk really insulate stutzle and raymond hes perfect for the role. maybe his dad can come storm the locker room and get the guys jacked up too.

We have Tierney and to a lesser extent White to insulate whomever we draft at the center position. Plenty of wingers to insulate a winger too