Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 PART VIII

[Sweatred]

I think UFA are fine when the contract length is short. Overpaying for a short term solution is fine. Picking up Hainsey last year for example might not be ideal, but for what we needed (vet presence in the room and for development of the kids more so than on the ice impact) I think it was fine. Going after Pietrangelo is not really a good strategy for us though.

I agree - I just don’t see many UFA’s that move the needle much that will want to come here ... Hainsey was pretty much out of the league and it took a friendly coach and an overpayment to get Him to move here. Going forward that type of dman shouldn't be appealing to the Sens.

 

[Sweatred]

We have Tierney and to a lesser extent White to insulate whomever we draft at the center position. Plenty of wingers to insulate a winger too

White needs to take care of himself before he can carry anyone else. I get you are being cautious on him ... but he was 28th on the team in xGAR last year. His season was sub replacement level.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

this is what i been saying man you know... galchenyuk really insulate stutzle and raymond hes perfect for the role. maybe his dad can come storm the locker room and get the guys jacked up too.

Galchenyuk the pillar of consistency insulating your two top prospects with some of the highest IQ and potential this org has ever seen. Ahhh no...

 

[Micklebot]

So, if you go up to the top of this page, not going after Pietrangelo was where i started this discussion. It is not a good strategy for us imo. Not for him and not for a ufa player of similar calibre.

So... if you go to my initial reply to you, I said "I do agree in that I don't think we need to go after a UFA".

Top tier guys aren't the route we should be going, I agree, we can however use end of the line UFA like Hainsey last year who no longer have the on ice impact they used to, for the purpose of passing on their experience until Chabot and Tkachuk et al are ready to be the leaders on the team.

I just don't think Colorado is a fair comparison because they had no need to bring in UFA because they had O'Reilly the first two years, Duchene another 2 years after that, and Landeskog the entire time to bring along MacKinnon. They had the caliber of guys you are saying we shouldn't be adding already on the team when their current leaders were developing. Some like Landeskog and Jack Johnson are still there albeit not the players they once where, while others like Duchene and O'Reilly were traded for help in different spots.

 

[JD1]

Colorado added quite a few good pieces the past 12 or so months.

Burakovski was a top line winger, Donskoi was a 2nd like winger, Nichkushkin was a spot top 6 winger. Graves was a top pairing D for them.

yes they did, which is hopefully where we can be in 2023.....upgrades at targeted roster spots paid for with prospects / draft capital

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

White needs to take care of himself before he can carry anyone else. I get you are being cautious on him ... but he was 28th on the team in xGAR last year. His season was sub replacement level.

Cautious on him how?

 

[Sweatred]

Cautious on him how?

I thought you were trying to say he could/might (cautiously) be able to support a rookie type thing. Sorry if I misinterpreted ...

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Galchenyuk the pillar of consistency insulating your two top prospects with some of the highest IQ and potential this org has ever seen. Ahhh no...

His dad can get a hold of tim and Lucas’s numbers and text them in between periods about how shit they’re playing. (Alledgedly actually happened)

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I thought you were trying to say he could/might (cautiously) be able to support a rookie type thing. Sorry if I misinterpreted ...

I was more referring to him insulating the young guys by playing the bigger minutes while the young guys work their way up. Take the heat per se.

I am by no means a White fan. He needs to have a good 2020-2021 season or I think the organization will start to sour on him. Seems like some fans have already done so

 

[BankStreetParade]

I was more referring to him insulating the young guys by playing the bigger minutes while the young guys work their way up. Take the heat per se.

I am by no means a White fan. He needs to have a good 2020-2021 season or I think the organization will start to sour on him. Seems like some fans have already done so

Classic fanbase move: fall in love with a guy's potential, worry about extending him to a long-term contract, celebrate signing him to a "bargain", start bitching about said contract at the first sign of struggle (never-minding the fact he's playing on a miserably bad team). Rinse, repeat.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Classic fanbase move: fall in love with a guy's potential, worry about extending him to a long-term contract, celebrate signing him to a "bargain", start bitching about said contract at the first sign of struggle (never-minding the fact he's playing on a miserably bad team). Rinse, repeat.

Of course. Its common. Shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

[Agent Zub]

Classic fanbase move: fall in love with a guy's potential, worry about extending him to a long-term contract, celebrate signing him to a "bargain", start bitching about said contract at the first sign of struggle (never-minding the fact he's playing on a miserably bad team). Rinse, repeat.

what potential though? complimentary 2nd liner or a 3rd liner?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's pro sports, perform or get dished on. That goes for White and Dorion. White has another year or two to turn it around yet though, it's really just been Sweatred banging that drum.

Dorion is paid to predict player progression and is in a tough spot, they have a tiny budget with no room for messes, so perfection is required from him. That's tough.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Classic fanbase move: fall in love with a guy's potential, worry about extending him to a long-term contract, celebrate signing him to a "bargain", start bitching about said contract at the first sign of struggle (never-minding the fact he's playing on a miserably bad team). Rinse, repeat.

who ever said we signed him to a bargain?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Who did Colorado acquire that fits your bill to go from an historically awful season to protector? Who is insulating their talent?

I understand what you are saying but i don't agree with it nor do I think it is necessary.

Like Mickle saying, your comparison is completely off.

1) Colorado arent models for proper contenders yet. Finishing top 5 in reg season isn’t proof of anything. I’m talking about PROVEN contenders with repeated success.

2) Colorado added their insulating talent a while ago, like someone else mentioned Mackinnon and such are well into their careers.

We are more comparable to Chicago, Pitts, Boston, LA etc... where we getting influx of a lot of young talent through picks in consecutive years and young guys ready to burst into the scene with minimal talent on the roster beforehand.

Chicago added Hossa and Campbell. Boston added Chara and Savard. Pittsburgh added Recchi and Gonchar. LA added Scuderi, Williams and Smyth to insulate THENNN added Richards and Carter to compete. Washington imo didn’t add enough early on which is why it took them a little while longer to get there. They did add Kozlov, Nylander and Sergei Federov(trade deadline) all in one year (3 years into ovy career and first year of backstrom) but they didn’t address the D and suffered for it even with world class offense.

Plus, for the sake of roster spots we need to make moves anyway. We can’t keep all the picks and all these young guys. If we can package them for better talent you 100% do it. Mind you it has to also be young talent but that’s feasible and will be opportune for us in next few seasons with corona and flat cap and expansion draft.

 

[dumbdick]

Like Mickle saying, your comparison is completely off.

1) Colorado arent models for proper contenders yet. Finishing top 5 in reg season isn’t proof of anything. I’m talking about PROVEN contenders with repeated success.

2) Colorado added their insulating talent a while ago, like someone else mentioned Mackinnon and such are well into their careers.

We are more comparable to Chicago, Pitts, Boston, LA etc... where we getting influx of a lot of young talent through picks in consecutive years and young guys ready to burst into the scene with minimal talent on the roster beforehand.

Chicago added Hossa and Campbell. Boston added Chara and Savard. Pittsburgh added Recchi and Gonchar. LA added Scuderi, Williams and Smyth to insulate THENNN added Richards and Carter to compete. Washington imo didn’t add enough early on which is why it took them a little while longer to get there. They did add Kozlov, Nylander and Sergei Federov(trade deadline) all in one year (3 years into ovy career and first year of backstrom) but they didn’t address the D and suffered for it even with world class offense.

I feel like you're cherry picking the succesful rebuilds and ignoring some rebounds that fail.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I feel like you're cherry picking the succesful rebuilds and ignoring some rebounds that fail.

Like? Buffalo didn’t add much and they’re major sucking. Edmonton didn’t add insulating talent and they’re also in terrible limbo where not even top 2 players in NHL are enough for them to be clear contenders yet. Arizona isn’t adding anyone to insulate and they stuck in limbos. Florida finally added talent like Bobrovsky and Hoffman and we gonna see how that’s worked out for them. Toronto added the biggest UFA in couple decades and became more lethal but even then, they scrutinized for not helping defense enough as is.

People think getting draft picks and developing them is enough? You need proven talent to maintain/instil winning culture and professional environment or else risk the guys getting sucked into losing environment.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Curious who you guys see as your starting goalie next season? Anderson expected to retire? I know you have Gustavsson and Hogberg but neither is ready for starting duties just yet.

There isn't anything concrete right now.

Hogberg might be the favorite to be the #1 next season, but he is far from a sure thing. Hogberg was the Senators best goalie to close the season, but it was a small sample size. There's a big difference between playing 50-60 good games as a starter, and playing 24 over a few months.

When the season finished in March. Nilsson was still sidelined with concussions that were suffered in December. He made some progress, but that's a long time to be out.

I would guess, we only sign Anderson if:
1 - Nilsson is not coming back.
2 - We don't try to acquire our next starting goalie in a trade (Ala TOR acquiring Andersen in 2016, Buffalo acquiring Lehner in 2015, etc).

Gustavsson and Daccord are not NHL ready. Daccord is older than Gustavsson and probably farther along. It would be shocking if he became the starter out of training camp, but I could see him pushing for the NHL sooner than later. He is the type of player who seems to eventually excel at each level he plays. By the end of the season, he was red hot in the AHL.

Unless the Senators make a side deal with Seattle, or strategically leave a valuable forward like a Logan Brown unprotected, they will probably lose one of their young goalies to Seattle. Both Gustavsson and Daccord are probably better than any forwards or defense the Senators are likely to have to leave unprotected, and the Senators can only protect one of them or Hogberg.

 

[Mosby]

How are you guys in terms of the cap floor? Speaking as an Arizona fan I know it'ts annoying when fans of other teams try to send you their bad contracts, but I'm curious where things stand with guys like Callahan and MacArthur coming off the books? Arizona needs to create cap and I'm wondering if Ottawa could be a candidate to take on Hossa's final year? It's a 5.275 hit but only $200,000 in real cash after insurance coverage.

And I say this with all due respect, I imagine it's going to be difficult for the Senators to attract UFAs where that cap could otherwise be spent. The team is up-and-coming, but not a contender, and then add in stuff like Melnyk, arena location, weather, taxes, and it's not a desirable home right now unless the payout is absurd, and that just seems unlikely or just not worth it.

 

[Comely]

How are you guys in terms of the cap floor? Speaking as an Arizona fan I know it'ts annoying when fans of other teams try to send you their bad contracts, but I'm curious where things stand with guys like Callahan and MacArthur coming off the books? Arizona needs to create cap and I'm wondering if Ottawa could be a candidate to take on Hossa's final year? It's a 5.275 hit but only $200,000 in real cash after insurance coverage.

And I say this with all due respect, I imagine it's going to be difficult for the Senators to attract UFAs where that cap could otherwise be spent. The team is up-and-coming, but not a contender, and then add in stuff like Melnyk, arena location, weather, taxes, and it's not a desirable home right now unless the payout is absurd, and that just seems unlikely or just not worth it.

We are over the floor already unless we dont sign some RFAs or they all mysteriously ask for league minimum.

 

[Sweatred]

who ever said we signed him to a bargain?

95 % of this Board ...

 

[Cosmix]

Like Mickle saying, your comparison is completely off.

1) Colorado arent models for proper contenders yet. Finishing top 5 in reg season isn’t proof of anything. I’m talking about PROVEN contenders with repeated success.

2) Colorado added their insulating talent a while ago, like someone else mentioned Mackinnon and such are well into their careers.

We are more comparable to Chicago, Pitts, Boston, LA etc... where we getting influx of a lot of young talent through picks in consecutive years and young guys ready to burst into the scene with minimal talent on the roster beforehand.

Chicago added Hossa and Campbell. Boston added Chara and Savard. Pittsburgh added Recchi and Gonchar. LA added Scuderi, Williams and Smyth to insulate THENNN added Richards and Carter to compete. Washington imo didn’t add enough early on which is why it took them a little while longer to get there. They did add Kozlov, Nylander and Sergei Federov(trade deadline) all in one year (3 years into ovy career and first year of backstrom) but they didn’t address the D and suffered for it even with world class offense.

Plus, for the sake of roster spots we need to make moves anyway. We can’t keep all the picks and all these young guys. If we can package them for better talent you 100% do it. Mind you it has to also be young talent but that’s feasible and will be opportune for us in next few seasons with corona and flat cap and expansion draft.

Rather than trade some of our second round and lower draft picks for older perhaps over-the-hill players, I would rather use them to upgrade our higher first round draft picks such as the NYI pick this year to get younger higher rated players. We also need to give our young prospects some roster positions next season (Batherson, Norris, Formenton, and possibly L. Brown and Brannstrom). The objective should be to develop our prospects for the future by giving them NHL playing time. We are not going to make the playoffs next season, nor perhaps the next 2 or 3 seasons.

 

[dumbdick]

Like? Buffalo didn’t add much and they’re major sucking. Edmonton didn’t add insulating talent and they’re also in terrible limbo where not even top 2 players in NHL are enough for them to be clear contenders yet. Arizona isn’t adding anyone to insulate and they stuck in limbos. Florida finally added talent like Bobrovsky and Hoffman and we gonna see how that’s worked out for them. Toronto added the biggest UFA in couple decades and became more lethal but even then, they scrutinized for not helping defense enough as is.

People think getting draft picks and developing them is enough? You need proven talent to maintain/instil winning culture and professional environment or else risk the guys getting sucked into losing environment.

My bad. I misread the point of your original post.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

How are you guys in terms of the cap floor? Speaking as an Arizona fan I know it'ts annoying when fans of other teams try to send you their bad contracts, but I'm curious where things stand with guys like Callahan and MacArthur coming off the books? Arizona needs to create cap and I'm wondering if Ottawa could be a candidate to take on Hossa's final year? It's a 5.275 hit but only $200,000 in real cash after insurance coverage.

And I say this with all due respect, I imagine it's going to be difficult for the Senators to attract UFAs where that cap could otherwise be spent. The team is up-and-coming, but not a contender, and then add in stuff like Melnyk, arena location, weather, taxes, and it's not a desirable home right now unless the payout is absurd, and that just seems unlikely or just not worth it.

The Senators at only about 19M away with only 9 roster spots filled.

So it is very unlikely that they'd have a difficult time hitting the floor.

I think they'd give Arizona a very soft return for Derek Stepan once his bonus is paid. Look at the Namestnikov trade for what I'm talking about. The same sort of thing. The Senators get a cheap veteran, the other team gets cap space and maybe a mid round pick.

The only way I can see the Senators taking Hossa is if there is a worse real money contract going back like how they sent Tampa Mike Condon for Ryan Callahan.

The Senators don't seem to be in the business of taking on bad contracts for future assets. They seem to only do it if it saves them real money, or of it is a veteran who has a good salary to cap hit ratio (Stepan for example) that they can fit in their lineup.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

95 % of this Board ...

Lmao yeah maybe I did to. But it certainly was not.