Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 Part VI

[Sweatred]

I don't see those guys as short term options save maybe Galchenyuk whomight take the show me contract.

RNH probably wants 6 years min and he will get it imo. Smith probably wants 4 or 5 years but if the cap falls out from under these guys and options become limited you never know.

I like the idea of overpaying $2-3 million above market for one year for a center that could boost their stats playing with Laf and Brady (or whoever) and get flipped to a contender at the TDL for a first.

I’m not sure if that player is out there ... but I’d rather overpay at Center (move CT) than on Hainsey.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I just don't see why we'd trade Tierney yet. We need veteran centers while the prospects develop. We'll have a chance to showcase him as our number one center and possibly improve his value.

He had a chance to be showcased this past season, and didn't do much. The only center ahead of him was JG Pageau.

I think we hold on to him, but I think it is because he doesn't have much value going into arbitration. He'll be easier to move at the deadline as a rental, but we won't get much for him. Similar players went for a 4th round pick at this past deadline. He is a lot closer to Namestnikov and Grant than he is to JG Pageau.

We should have moved Tierney least year when he had term at what seemed like a decent hit, and he was coming off of a really good season where he had "More assists than Mark Stone TM".

I'd be perfectly fine with a change of scenery trade for a different forward. I think that would be the most likely trade we could make. I definitely have a bias suggesting Dzingel above, because I've seen him play so much. But that's the kind of trade I'd look for.

 

[DrSense]

He had a chance to be showcased this past season, and didn't do much. The only center ahead of him was JG Pageau.

I think we hold on to him, but I think it is because he doesn't have much value going into arbitration. .

Tierney had 36 ES points last season (only 2 PP points), so we're being a little hard on a guy that never really played on the PP. A few times he got put on the 2nd unit, but he had more ES points than Pageau did in his career year (32 ES points). Duclair also had 32. Brown and Tkachuk had 39 and 37, respectively, to lead the team. Gives you some context. I'd argue Tierney had pretty bad linemates at times too - he certainly didn't get much time with our best forward in Tkachuk.

The bottom line is that at the same age, Tierney is a much more productive offensive player than Pageau, while also bringing the same two-way capability in a bigger frame. He just doesn't have that "Ole Ole" moment to lean on like JG did. And while I liked JG a lot, the reason I was ok trading him was because we had a natural replacement for him in Tierney to take on the tough minutes and matchups going forward.

At the very least, I'd play the heck out of Tierney next year in the top 6 and actually give him PP time, then flip him for a 1st rounder at the deadline when his value is highest. But I'd only do that knowing Brown and Norris had progressed enough, that they were ready to take on more minutes while guys like Chlapik and Paul could handle the bottom 6 duties, and Hawrluk was also playing well as another C option.

 

[MatchesMalone]

He had a chance to be showcased this past season, and didn't do much. The only center ahead of him was JG Pageau.

I think we hold on to him, but I think it is because he doesn't have much value going into arbitration. He'll be easier to move at the deadline as a rental, but we won't get much for him. Similar players went for a 4th round pick at this past deadline. He is a lot closer to Namestnikov and Grant than he is to JG Pageau.

We should have moved Tierney least year when he had term at what seemed like a decent hit, and he was coming off of a really good season where he had "More assists than Mark Stone TM".

I'd be perfectly fine with a change of scenery trade for a different forward. I think that would be the most likely trade we could make. I definitely have a bias suggesting Dzingel above, because I've seen him play so much. But that's the kind of trade I'd look for.

Big difference between playing behind Pageau. DJ Smith won't have a choice but to play him in all situations.

And why would we trade him as a rental? Why not sign him for two or three years and trade him with term? If he gets a chance to play with Lafreniere or Tkachuk regularly it could improve his value a bit.

Granted, GMs know what he is and aren't going to fooled, but for me the main reason to keep him around a while is we just need NHL bodies to insulate the youth. Particularly at center.

 

[MatchesMalone]

The bottom line is that at the same age, Tierney is a much more productive offensive player than Pageau, while also bringing the same two-way capability in a bigger frame.

Woah. Let's not get crazy here.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Big difference between playing behind Pageau. DJ Smith won't have a choice but to play him in all situations.

And why would we trade him as a rental? Why not sign him for two or three years and trade him with term? If he gets a chance to play with Lafreniere or Tkachuk regularly it could improve his value a bit.

Granted, GMs know what he is and aren't going to fooled, but for me the main reason to keep him around a while is we just need NHL bodies to insulate the youth. Particularly at center.

He would be more difficult to trade with term.

The reason he would be movable as a rental, is that a team only has to add his remaining cap hit at the deadline, and can then walk away.

Would Namestnikov have gotten us a better return if he had 2 more years tacked on at the deadline? Probably not.

The Senators have re-signed so few UFAs to anything more than 1 year contracts, I'd be shocked if we kept Tierney beyond 2021. We seem to be funneling all of our money into cost controlling our RFAs. We offered Pageau an extension, but it is difficult to know how serious we were, considering the gap between what Pageau wanted and what we apparently offered wasn't that great. Why didn't we bridge the gap?

Tierney will have no place on this team going forward. He will be very hard to get value for because the cap is about to get obliterated, and he won't be a priority for any team to add. This is why I think the best bet is a change of scenery move. If we add a different player who we think will be a better fit, maybe they end up being worth more than Tierney at the deadline, or in the off chance that we do compete for a playoff spot, maybe we get more out of them on the ice than we would with Tierney.

He is not a bad player. I just think a lot has changed in the last year in terms of his value, both internally on his part, and externally with what is going to happen with the salary cap. I'd imagine he peaked in value last off season, and it has been all down hill since then. I could always be wrong.

 

[DrSense]

Woah. Let's not get crazy here.

Tierney was terrific on the PK and at even strength overall, and let's face it, it's not like Pageau was every truly regarded as an elite checking center. To give some context, Pageau has never finished in the top 15 in the Selke voting over his career, even though he's basically been the Sens designated checking center for 5 years or more (Stone finished in the top 15 a few times). He is a great little two way player, and great on the PK too, but it's not like all of our coaches used him in a pure shutdown role or any other coaches feared Pageau as a one of the better shutdown centers in the league. He is good - I'm not saying he's not, but so is Tierney. Given Tierney is better offensively at the same age, he might have more upside as a two-way threat, especially being 6-1/200.

 

[Minnesnota]

Just curious which package you fans would prefer:

Quinton Byfield
Tim Stutzle (consensus #3 at the moment)

or

Quinton Byfield
Matt Dumba
Adam Beckman
11th Pick

 

[AKL]

Just curious which package you fans would prefer:

Quinton Byfield
Tim Stutzle (consensus #3 at the moment)

or

Quinton Byfield
Matt Dumba
Adam Beckman
11th Pick

Just to add some context to this for Ottawa fans, there’s a discussion on the Wild board about moving up to #3 in the draft this year.

Assuming Ottawa had picks 2 and 3 in the 2020 draft, would Ottawa fans be willing to accept Dumba, Beckman and #11 from Minnesota for #3?

And just so you don’t have to go searching for this information:

Dumba makes 6M per year for three more seasons after this one. Three seasons ago he had a 50 point campaign, last season he had 12 goals and 22 points in 32 games before suffering a season ending injury. This season he started off really poorly, but rebounded somewhat, finishing with 6 goals and 24 points in 69 games. He will be 28 going on 29 when his current contract ends.

 

[Crosside]

Just curious which package you fans would prefer:

Quinton Byfield
Tim Stutzle (consensus #3 at the moment)

or

Quinton Byfield
Matt Dumba
Adam Beckman
11th Pick

For Stutzle no way !!! Maybe for Byfield I thinking hard. I think you have another first no

 

[Sensung]

Tierney was terrific on the PK and at even strength overall, and let's face it, it's not like Pageau was every truly regarded as an elite checking center. To give some context, Pageau has never finished in the top 15 in the Selke voting over his career, even though he's basically been the Sens designated checking center for 5 years or more (Stone finished in the top 15 a few times). He is a great little two way player, and great on the PK too, but it's not like all of our coaches used him in a pure shutdown role or any other coaches feared Pageau as a one of the better shutdown centers in the league. He is good - I'm not saying he's not, but so is Tierney. Given Tierney is better offensively at the same age, he might have more upside as a two-way threat, especially being 6-1/200.

Tierney and terrific should never be in the same sentence.

 

[Masked]

Just curious which package you fans would prefer:

Quinton Byfield
Tim Stutzle (consensus #3 at the moment)

or

Quinton Byfield
Matt Dumba
Adam Beckman
11th Pick

Sens keep the picks unless someone they really like drops to 11.

 

[Micklebot]

Tierney and terrific should never be in the same sentence.

I think it would be terrific if we could trade Tierney in a package for a mid first round pick.

All kidding aside, it's all relative. Tierney is currently on a good value contract (not that it matters with the season essentially cancelled), and is a very good penalty killer. It's not his fault he's too far up our depth chart.

 

[Melgene Eunyk]

Sens keep the picks unless someone they really like drops to 11.

Unless they have a time machine, this isn't possible.

 

[Melgene Eunyk]

Sens keep the picks unless someone they really like drops to 11.

Unless they have a time machine, this isn't possible.

 

[JD1]

Realistically, I think our best value usage of Tierney would be to replace a pick that we use to move up i.e 21 + 48 for 16, then trade Tierney for a mid 2nd and a 4th, or something like that (or just substitute him for 48th OV and maybe throw in a midrounder). No team is gonna value him as a piece to move out of the 1st round for, even if they still get a high 2nd.

I think our best value with Tierney is to sign him to a 1 year deal that walks him to UFA. Play him next year to continuing insulating our centre crop and then move him at the deadline

 

[MatchesMalone]

Just to add some context to this for Ottawa fans, there’s a discussion on the Wild board about moving up to #3 in the draft this year.

Assuming Ottawa had picks 2 and 3 in the 2020 draft, would Ottawa fans be willing to accept Dumba, Beckman and #11 from Minnesota for #3?

And just so you don’t have to go searching for this information:

Dumba makes 6M per year for three more seasons after this one. Three seasons ago he had a 50 point campaign, last season he had 12 goals and 22 points in 32 games before suffering a season ending injury. This season he started off really poorly, but rebounded somewhat, finishing with 6 goals and 24 points in 69 games. He will be 28 going on 29 when his current contract ends.

Dumba isn't exactly the best fit for our timeline. Not that he's old, but 26 in July. We're still a couple years from contending. That said, there is no way the Sens could pass up that value, both in terms of the trade and his contract.

Two-way right shot defenseman is one of our biggest needs, so if we land a Lafreniere, Stützle or Byfield plus Dumba and still get 11th overall, perhaps that accelerates the rebuild enough that we get two years of contending on Dumbas current contract. I'm sure I'm in the minority here but I'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

 

[Micklebot]

Realistically, I think our best value usage of Tierney would be to replace a pick that we use to move up i.e 21 + 48 for 16, then trade Tierney for a mid 2nd and a 4th, or something like that (or just substitute him for 48th OV and maybe throw in a midrounder). No team is gonna value him as a piece to move out of the 1st round for, even if they still get a high 2nd.

I don't think I'd bother for a 2nd and a 4th.

If Tierney is a must for a team to send us a mid first, I'm all over that, but I'm more than happy to keep Tierney if the return is a 2nd round pick. Not sure Tierney + 21OA for 16 is worth it though, would obviously depend on who is still there though. If someone we have in our top 10 is still on the board, that's worth it to me, but without that guy we covet sliding, I'm not interested.