Proposal: Trade Rumours and Proposals Thread: Do We Need a Dman Still?

[bobbythebrain]

Drais wasn't ready his first year which was clear especially given his line mates at the time. That half a year shouldn't factor into their value right at this moment. Your whole he has 2 less goals in 40 games well yeah because Drai was kept up way too long in his first year and that has a major impact on your side of the argument. They are a year a part I'll never understand why people act like the age gap is anything more than mirage to the reality of a players worth. Eichel and Drai both scored 48 goals total the last two years with Drai playing like 10 games more. That is the relevant stat.

So Drai gets a pass cuz he wasn't ready but Eichel is overpaid cuz he was? Ok

 

[guymez]

IMO Eichel is a better player than Draisaitl. That shouldn't diminish Drai in any way...he is a solid player.

In terms of the team...I sure hope that they arent going to use up a contract on Kelly. Surely that's not the best Chiarelli can do for a depth player.

 

[Aerrol]

IMO Eichel is a better player than Draisaitl. That shouldn't diminish Drai in any way...he is a solid player.

In terms of the team...I sure hope that they arent going to use up a contract on Kelly. Surely that's not the best Chiarelli can do for a depth player.

Agreed. He's got a lot of weight on his shoulders with the new contract (before he's had a full healthy season to fully show what he can do) and the captaincy. That said, he's also no longer having to play under Dan Bylsma so that in itself should be a huge boost for him and the team.

We absolutely could do better than Kelly, but I'm not going to fret about it if we do sign him as a depth option before any injuries. Chia seems to go back and forth between grabbing bruisers and skill guys, and if his latest bruiser option is just a 13th forward type who likely will be outplayed by Pakarinen, it's not the end of the world.

 

[guymez]

Agreed. He's got a lot of weight on his shoulders with the new contract (before he's had a full healthy season to fully show what he can do) and the captaincy. That said, he's also no longer having to play under Dan Bylsma so that in itself should be a huge boost for him and the team.

We absolutely could do better than Kelly, but I'm not going to fret about it if we do sign him as a depth option before any injuries. Chia seems to go back and forth between grabbing bruisers and skill guys, and if his latest bruiser option is just a 13th forward type who likely will be outplayed by Pakarinen, it's not the end of the world.

I wouldn't be as concerned about Kelly if the Oilers were at 47 contracts but they are at 48 and signing Kelly puts them at 49 contracts. That ties Chiarellis hands in terms of improving the team later on in the season.

 

[bobbythebrain]

With Kelly, gotta think they are still leaving an option for Letestu on the 3rd line if Strome fails to look good

 

[nexttothemoon]

The Golden Knights have quite the opening 23 man roster lol.

11 forwards
9 d-men
3 goalies

And I believe 2 players on IR.

... and a partridge in a pear treeeee...

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Oh ya, Eichel wass almost a point a game player at center 110% playing without a generational talent

So was Seguin and Hall minus the center aspect but Hall was the team driver the same way Eichel is before Mcdavid came along. I don't think Eichel has done nearly enough at this point to receive that kind of contract. Hall looked unbelievable during his 50 points in 45 games and 80 points in 75 games and if weren't already signed before that do you think this fanbase would have been happy paying him 10 million a year? I don't even think Drai deserves 8.5 at this point but that deal is way more digestible than 10 million for a guy who has only played a season and half and hasn't been ppg yet.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

With Kelly, gotta think they are still leaving an option for Letestu on the 3rd line if Strome fails to look good

That is my thought as well. I am not sure Letestu could hack playing 3rd line minutes + being a stalwart on special teams.

Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl
Lucic-RNH-Yamamoto
Jokinen-Letestu-Strome/Caggiula/Slepyshev
Khaira-Kelly-Kassian

 

[bobbythebrain]

So was Seguin and Hall minus the center aspect but Hall was the team driver the same way Eichel is before Mcdavid came along. I don't think Eichel has done nearly enough at this point to receive that kind of contract. Hall looked unbelievable during his 50 points in 45 games and 80 points in 75 games and if weren't already signed before that do you think this fanbase would have been happy paying him 10 million a year? I don't even think Drai deserves 8.5 at this point but that deal is way more digestible than 10 million for a guy who has only played a season and half and hasn't been ppg yet.

You do realize people account for sample sizes in injury plagued seasons and the quality of the team.

When you factor in what Eichel has done in his time in the NHL and the team he is doing it from...Drai is not as good.

Eichel has been better than Drai.

You say he hasn't proved anything only cuz you fail to account for injury time and quality of team. Your argument is flawed.

By your metrics then I can argue that Kuznetsov was better than McDavid in 2016

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Eichel is the better player or at least is on the way to becoming a better player than Leon. That is not a slap in the face to Leon, it's just that Eichel is that good.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Eichel is the better player or at least is on the way to becoming a better player than Leon. That is not a slap in the face to Leon, it's just that Eichel is that good.

Agreed. Love Leon and proud we have him, but Eichel is infact better

 

[GhostfaceWu]

You do realize people account for sample sizes in injury plagued seasons and the quality of the team.

When you factor in what Eichel has done in his time in the NHL and the team he is doing it from...Drai is not as good.

Eichel has been better than Drai.

You say he hasn't proved anything only cuz you fail to account for injury time and quality of team. Your argument is flawed.

By your metrics then I can argue that Kuznetsov was better than McDavid in 2016

My argument is not flawed because as I said before look at what Hall did on a much worse team and yet it'd be inconceivable to offer him this type of contract when he signed his extension and that was while he posted a ppg season. Buffalo signed him to that deal because they had to not because his play as of now earned him it. Why would I include injury time? That does nothing to increase a players value it does the opposite. Kuznetzov is another center who signed for almost 3 million less you bringing him up only strengthens my argument. You're also acting like Eichel is playing with scrubs which he isn't. I'm saying up to this point he hasn't done anything to garner this contract.

 

[bobbythebrain]

My argument is not flawed because as I said before look at what Hall did on a much worse team and yet it'd be inconceivable to offer him this type of contract when he signed his extension and that was while he posted a ppg season. Buffalo signed him to that deal because they had to not because his play as of now earned him it. Why would I include injury time? That does nothing to increase a players value it does the opposite. Kuznetzov is another center who signed for almost 3 million less you bringing him up only strengthens my argument. You're also acting like Eichel is playing with scrubs which he isn't. I'm saying up to this point he hasn't done anything to garner this contract.

Pretty simple if you want to make your argument then. I don't care about Hall or Seguin as wingers

Fourier is exceptional at making arguments via stats in these arguments

How about you show Eichel vs Leon at CENTER for PPG and QOC. If Leon is equal or better, I will contest. If Eichel has him beat, end of story

As far as linemates. So you're saying Kane or Okposo are as good as Hall or McDavid

 

[tiger_80]

Other than being a year younger and 2nd overall pick in McDavid's draft, I do not see how Eichel is a better player than Draisaitl at this moment. If anything Draisaitl is a more mature player and is surrounded by better talent. Eichel has a long way to go in this league before being considered a bona fide franchise player.

 

[tiger_80]

I'm with the Leaf fans on this one. They won't get close to Eichel's 10M. Possibly approach Draisaitl's 8.5 but it'll depend on their seasons.

Definitely set Matthews bottom number at 10M though.

Oh, Matthews bar was set already with McDavid signing. He will get close to 12M next year.

 

[Spawn]

That is my thought as well. I am not sure Letestu could hack playing 3rd line minutes + being a stalwart on special teams.

Maroon-McDavid-Draisaitl
Lucic-RNH-Yamamoto
Jokinen-Letestu-Strome/Caggiula/Slepyshev
Khaira-Kelly-Kassian

I donno. Last season it seemed like Chia and McLellan did everything in their power to keep Letestu as the 4th line C. Once Drai was moved to McDavid's wing, they had Caggiula playing as the 3C and then when that didn't work went and got Desharnais to be our 3C. I think the organization values Test alot, but I think everyone agrees he's best utilized as a 4th line C who is a staple on both special teams units and as the extra C for defensive zone faceoffs. I think Letestu feels best in that role too. I think I remember it was Gregor who said that Letestu felt he's at his best when hes not over extended with too many minutes.

I'd really hope we don't end up in a situation where we need to worry about our 3C though. McDavid, Drai and Nuge are all natural C's. Strome and Jokinen also have C experience in the NHL. If we can't get 3 good Cs out of that there is something wrong going on.

I think they're keeping Kelly around (if he gets a contract, it's weird they haven't made a decision on him yet) in case of injuries where we have no choice but to move Letestu up.

 

[GodPucker]

I think that Eichel Contract is so hilarious. Let's break 60 points. But leon and bad right. LOL. Such stupidity on the mains.

 

[LaGu]

Agreed. Love Leon and proud we have him, but Eichel is infact better

Not in the playoffs

Anyhow, I don't know why you go to such lengths to defend other team's players.

The issue I have with all of this is the hypocrisy of many posters saying that Draisaitl was not worth his contract because he earn it yet, and then turn around having no problem with Eichel's contract...

I agree that Eichel is/will be better than Draisaitl. That is the most likely scenario and he has already showed signs, albeit during shorter periods, of being capable of playing at a higher level. However, as a matter of fact Drai's last season + playoffs eclipse that of Eichel's.

 

[McTrashBoat]

need to stay off the main boards tonight

leaf fans are already building a defence for Nylander and Mitch getting nowhere near Leon D or Eichel money

in truth--they should be ****ting their pants right now

I disagree, it's a ball in there

 

[bobbythebrain]

Not in the playoffs

Anyhow, I don't know why you go to such lengths to defend other team's players.

The issue I have with all of this is the hypocrisy of many posters saying that Draisaitl was not worth his contract because he earn it yet, and then turn around having no problem with Eichel's contract...

I agree that Eichel is/will be better than Draisaitl. That is the most likely scenario and he has already showed signs, albeit during shorter periods, of being capable of playing at a higher level. However, as a matter of fact Drai's last season + playoffs eclipse that of Eichel's.

nm

 

[joestevens29]

The Golden Knights have quite the opening 23 man roster lol.

11 forwards
9 d-men
3 goalies

And I believe 2 players on IR.

Lol. Maybe GMGM's whole thought process was get big money and then do everything in his power to get fired.

 

[CupofOil]

This is absurd, though. Eichel has done literally nothing to earn a 10 million dollar contract. Eichel has basically put up less numbers than Hall did and if Hall was signed to a contract like this people would be coming down hard if was the Oilers who signed him to that. I'm not saying Eichel won't be a great player going forward but look at the contracts Tavares, Hall, and Seguin signed after their entry level contract and Buffalo can only HOPE that Eichel turns out as good as Seguin and Tavares.

Eichel will be better than those guys. All you have to do is watch him play to know this his offensive skillset is elite of the elite, don't pay too much attention to the numbers. The only way this turns out to be a bad contract is if he all of a sudden becomes injury prone. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping him from being a consistent 80-90+ point player.

This is what teams do nowadays, they identify a young core member and pay them for what they will be throughout their 2nd contract, not what they have been throughout their ELC. Risky but generally these high level players pan out. I'd rather overpay an elite talent based on what they will be than overpay an older player for what they were.

 

[joestevens29]

Eichel will be better than those guys. All you have to do is watch him play to know this his offensive skillset is elite of the elite, don't pay too much attention to the numbers. The only way this turns out to be a bad contract is if he all of a sudden becomes injury prone. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping him from being a consistent 80-90+ point player.

This is what teams do nowadays, they identify a young core member and pay them for what they will be throughout their 2nd contract, not what they have been throughout their ELC. Risky but generally these high level players pan out. I'd rather overpay an elite talent based on what they will be than overpay an older player for what they were.

Is what is happening now any more risky than what GM's have done for the past 20 years?

For the longest time it was signing vets who were either 30 or 31 to long-term deals. More often than not those guys were horrid after year 1 or 2

Then the thought process was lets drop cap hits by giving guys double digit year contracts.

Now GM's are just trying to predict the future and are trying to lock guys into lower cap hits earlier in their career. The hope being that all players continue to develop up and because they are younger their is less risk of injuries derailing a career.

 

[CupofOil]

With Kelly, gotta think they are still leaving an option for Letestu on the 3rd line if Strome fails to look good

That would be awful. Letestu barely puts up 4th line numbers at even strength.
They have many options that they can use to slide to 3rd line center if Strome struggles. Move Drai to center, RNH to the 3rd line (which should have been done for opening night) and Jokinen. Letestu should never play above the 4th line unless multiple injuries hit.

 

[CupofOil]

Is what is happening now any more risky than what GM's have done for the past 20 years?

For the longest time it was signing vets who were either 30 or 31 to long-term deals. More often than not those guys were horrid after year 1 or 2

Then the thought process was lets drop cap hits by giving guys double digit year contracts.

Now GM's are just trying to predict the future and are trying to lock guys into lower cap hits earlier in their career. The hope being that all players continue to develop up and because they are younger their is less risk of injuries derailing a career.

With high level forwards, there's not much of a risk because generally you know by the 3rd year of the ELC how good they are/will be soon. It just so happens that Winnipeg and Florida were extremely lucky that Schiefele and Barkov didn't really break out until after the contract was signed.

With Dmen, it's trickier because they are tougher to project and that's why you see RFA Dmen contracts come in at much lower numbers.