Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals/Free Agents 2018-2019 (Part 2)

[danielpalfredsson]

Absolutely. It might be better that way to be honest who knows what Dorion would do if he had money to spend on free agents. This is a situation where we would not spend the money either way. Like you said even if UFA signings turned out fine most of the time we still wouldn't be spending on them, it's just a good coincidence for Melnyk and management.

Yeah, my point is that it's not really a valid argument since our lack of spending is not a strategic choice.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Hitting ufa at 26 is much different than hitting ufa at 30+.

Am surprised we offered Ceci that deal and he didn't sign it. I'd move him or re-qualify for another 1 year deal if a trade can't be worked out.

If 6 x 6 is true thats Turris money, not Ceci.

He wasn't offered 6x6, he was (apparently) offered 6 years x 4.75M.

Keep in mind, we could have had him for 2 x 4.3M after arbitration, so with the benefit of hindsight it would have worked out to being about 5M per for the four UFA years it buys up.

Ceci is an interesting case in terms of contract, because defenders are a lot less black and white in terms of evaluation. He's a case of somebody who if going by deployment is a 5M+ defender on a 6 year deal signed this summer, but paying him for deployment ignores whether or not he excelled with that deployment. It's a lot easier to judge a forward contract wise since aside from a few special cases, production is the main determining factor for salary. Defenders are a lot more subjectively judged. (Although advanced stats is trying to change that)

 

[solidprospect]

He wasn't offered 6x6, he was (apparently) offered 6 years x 4.75M.

Keep in mind, we could have had him for 2 x 4.3M after arbitration, so with the benefit of hindsight it would have worked out to being about 5M per for the four UFA years it buys up.

Ceci is an interesting case in terms of contract, because defenders are a lot less black and white in terms of evaluation. He's a case of somebody who if going by deployment is a 5M+ defender on a 6 year deal signed this summer, but paying him for deployment ignores whether or not he excelled with that deployment. It's a lot easier to judge a forward contract wise since aside from a few special cases, production is the main determining factor for salary. Defenders are a lot more subjectively judged. (Although advanced stats is trying to change that)

I seen what you thought he was offered , thought someone else here also mentioned 6x6.

We had Methot re-sign here a few years ago he wanted like 5.5M+ or something and eventually settled on 4.9M. i know Methot signed at a different age than Ceci will but am not interested in the team paying more than 5m for an apparent defensive specialist, am actually not even interested at whatever number arbitration would settle on either. Just not a fan.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I seen what you thought he was offered , thought someone else here also mentioned 6x6.

We had Methot re-sign here a few years ago he wanted like 5.5M+ or something and eventually settled on 4.9M. i know Methot signed at a different age than Ceci will but am not interested in the team paying more than 5m for an apparent defensive specialist, am actually not even interested at whatever number arbitration would settle on either. Just not a fan.

For reference, Methot's deal would be 4 UFA years at 5.6M when equalized for the current cap. So it's a higher cap percentage than what Ceci was offered. Term is shorter, although Ceci is younger.

 

[BatherSeason]

I know he did. I’m just getting confused on when the media are shills and when they are the authoritative source. It’s hard to keep track, so far I have it like this: if they are saying anything potentially negative about Sens management or current whipping boys then it’s factual and can be used as proof; when it is positive they are shills for the org.

Only the local guys are shills for the org.

 

[BatherSeason]

I seen what you thought he was offered , thought someone else here also mentioned 6x6.

We had Methot re-sign here a few years ago he wanted like 5.5M+ or something and eventually settled on 4.9M. i know Methot signed at a different age than Ceci will but am not interested in the team paying more than 5m for an apparent defensive specialist, am actually not even interested at whatever number arbitration would settle on either. Just not a fan.

My bad on the 6x6. I knew it wasnt that high just mistyped.

 

[Liver King]

Ceci for a 2nd liner

Who? I dont know

 

[Blotto71]

Ceci for a 2nd liner

Who? I dont know

Nope, I believe he plays second. Sorry Moon Walker, wrong sport.

 

[bert]

If Puljujarvi is on the block the sens should be trying to get him. Dzingel + Ceci for Poolparty and a cap dump?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Nope, I believe he plays second. Sorry Moon Walker, wrong sport.

Who's on first. What's on second.

 

[Dino Tkachuk]

I seen what you thought he was offered , thought someone else here also mentioned 6x6.

We had Methot re-sign here a few years ago he wanted like 5.5M+ or something and eventually settled on 4.9M. i know Methot signed at a different age than Ceci will but am not interested in the team paying more than 5m for an apparent defensive specialist, am actually not even interested at whatever number arbitration would settle on either. Just not a fan.

Nate Schmidt signed for 6x6. Nobody is saying that Ceci was offered the same.

 

[Xspyrit]

A lot of internal re - signings that backfire as well.

Michalek
Greening
Cowen
Phillips
Borowiecki

Michalek? Signed as a 29 years old 4.0 x 3 years, had 14 pts in 23 games and then 39 pts in 82 pts after his 35 goals 60 pts season. Although I could see the point for this one as he fell off a cliff in the 2nd year of this contract due to too many injuries, but had only 1 year left after that so not that crippling for a normal NHL franchise.

Phillips? A retirement contract 2.5 x 2 years for a guy who gave hometown discounts pretty much all his career, ala Alfie

Borowiecki? 28 years old signing 2 years x 1.2... close to the minimum NHL salary

I never believed in Greening and was not happy with his contract from the start and Cowen’s did backfire but the others are exaggerated IMO

If Puljujarvi is on the block the sens should be trying to get him. Dzingel + Ceci for Poolparty and a cap dump?

Sekera would be super attractive for Melnyk

 

[dumbdick]

As much as I want to keep both players, I suspect we might lose one or both before the deadline....what kind of return would you expect for each of them?

Please no Melnyk rants/derailing here. There are other threads for that. This thread isn't about should we trade them, just speculation on what a reasonable return might look like if we do.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Why do we need a thread for this?

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

A 1st a late round pick and a decent to good prospect is my guess.

What we'll actually get is probably less than that.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Not much because if it gets to that point, I am pretty certain they will want to test UFA.

It seems a given that Duchene isn't staying. He might but I am not expecting it.

Stone has to be signed however.

 

[Multigrain]

Not much unless they start producing . Stones concussion history would make me stay away from any blockbuster sort of deal. I think they are both gone. Seguins deal was completed before the season way cant PD at least get one done. I realize he has to wait to january for stone.

 

[benjiv1]

Noteable pending UFA Trades at last years deadline:

Evander Kane for 1st Rd Pick, 4th Rd Pick, Prospect

Stastny for 1st Rd Pick, 4th Rd Pick, Prospect

Nash for 1st Rd Pick,7th Rd Pick, Beleskey, Spooner, Lindgren

Then you look at what Tatar and Hartman returned, and I think you expect at least:

1st Rd Pick, A level prospect+

 

[Burrowsaurus]

with dorion…..

bauvillier a second a prospect weve ever heard of for Duchene..actually not bauvillier.. that pure shooter prospect that didn't make the team..


stone, I imagine the return being better.

 

[GCK]

1st and an A- prospect.

 

[GCK]

If Puljujarvi is on the block the sens should be trying to get him. Dzingel + Ceci for Poolparty and a cap dump?

Big time overpay. Ceci for Puljujarvi + 2nd.

 

[Fandlauer]

I'm of the mind that both will be traded. If Stone wanted to be here long term, he would have signed. I suspect for both we get something along the lines of:

1st round pick 20-31 range
3-5 round pick
Middling prospect

 

[Boud]

Late first with good prospect and kicker.

Conditional first if player re-signs with team.

 

[Spartachat]

I think Dorion tends to approach trades in terms of number of players he gets back. I think Stone and Duchene are easily worth 4 or more players each.

 

[alfstheman]

For reference, Methot's deal would be 4 UFA years at 5.6M when equalized for the current cap. So it's a higher cap percentage than what Ceci was offered. Term is shorter, although Ceci is younger.

Another difference is that Methot could play defense