Rumor: Trade Rumors/Proposals 2018-2019 (Part 4)

[Sens of Anarchy]

delete wrong thread

 

[Ice-Tray]

The number one priority is patience in my opinion.

We just started a rebuild, fans need to switch into rebuild mode.

The absolute last thing we should be doing is bringing in any vets to play major roles in the team.

Having said that, if we could bring in a HHOF defender at the end of his career to mentor I’d be all over that, a la Gonchar.

We need to develop our kids over the next few years. Like I said, many on HF Sens haven’t made the adjustment yet which is why we’re seeing so many folks now looking to make trades for immediate, but limited, upgrades.

That, my friends, is how we jump back into mediocrity, that place where none of wants to be. So many around here clamoured for a rebuild, a real one. Well, this is what it looks like. If we can keep Stone and Duchene we’ll be a couple steps ahead, but realistically this is a few years long process, so get comfortable instead of looking for quick fix trades.

My opinion of course.

 

[robsenz]

First tweet says 2016

Scouting takes time man! lol

 

[Liver King]

We went into a rebuild without a 1st round pick

Why have patients for a management team and ownership group - along with a terrible coach - that have no f***ing clue what they are doing

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Chose to work for him...

Seriously though, it's always hard to judge moves when you don't know the restraints put on him, but you know full well that Melnyk had nothing to do with the Anderson/Condon signings. I could see Melnyk insisting we sign Anderson, but Condon was all Dorion imo.

I was one of the hardest on him after the Karlsson trade and finding out how we have been lied to all summer but, with distance, who here would say no to being the GM of an NHL team because of Melnyk?

I sure as hell wouldn't and anyone here saying otherwise is most likely not being honest with themselves. I like to think I'd have the fortitude to tell Melnyk to suck my **** after the garbage he pulls but that's easy to think in my situation.

Dorion isn't blameless but it's really hard to get an accurate picture of how good of a GM he could be since he likely has the hardest GM job in the League on top of getting his marching orders from a total scum bag.

I have no doubt that if Melnyk had told Dorion "if things don't work out with Duchene we are burning the roster to the ground" that Dorion would not have given up the first rounder to get Matt for example. The rebuild idea was likely sprung on him out of nowhere.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

We went into a rebuild without a 1st round pick

Why have patients for a management team and ownership group - along with a terrible coach - that have no ****ing clue what they are doing

Ya the rebuild is a sham to cut costs. You don't rebuild 6 months after making the ECF and trading significant futures for a 1st line centre lol.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

The number one priority is patience in my opinion.

We just started a rebuild, fans need to switch into rebuild mode.

The absolute last thing we should be doing is bringing in any vets to play major roles in the team.

Having said that, if we could bring in a HHOF defender at the end of his career to mentor I’d be all over that, a la Gonchar.

We need to develop our kids over the next few years. Like I said, many on HF Sens haven’t made the adjustment yet which is why we’re seeing so many folks now looking to make trades for immediate, but limited, upgrades.

That, my friends, is how we jump back into mediocrity, that place where none of wants to be. So many around here clamoured for a rebuild, a real one. Well, this is what it looks like. If we can keep Stone and Duchene we’ll be a couple steps ahead, but realistically this is a few years long process, so get comfortable instead of looking for quick fix trades.

My opinion of course.

And then what happens when we draft some more good players and our team is competitive? Do you really think Eugene will pay up when he has to re-sign them?

It's not going to happen man. We're not going to re-sign Duchene or Stone, both of them will walk or we're going to trade them. We're probably going to trade Chabot when he needs a new contract too. Hope for competitive hockey in Ottawa is completely gone. It's over. So long as Melnyk owns the team, we're going to be perpetually a bottom feeder. Unfortunately he's going to own this team for a very long time, because he's the most stubborn man in Canada.

 

[Ice-Tray]

And then what happens when we draft some more good players and our team is competitive? Do you really think Eugene will pay up when he has to re-sign them?

It's not going to happen man. We're not going to re-sign Duchene or Stone, both of them will walk or we're going to trade them. We're probably going to trade Chabot when he needs a new contract too. Hope for competitive hockey in Ottawa is completely gone. It's over. So long as Melnyk owns the team, we're going to be perpetually a bottom feeder. Unfortunately he's going to own this team for a very long time, because he's the most stubborn man in Canada.

Personally I don’t buy into this, we have always been a middle of the pack spender and have signed our stars in the past.

I’d wait and see what we do with Stone and Duchene before creating an entire future on a supposition. I mean you only have to wait a few more months right? In any case, given that we have started a rebuild, it could be fairly argued that it makes sense to trade away our our top assets for picks and prospects (I’d prefer to keep both) and/or that they would not want to stick around for a rebuild. As SOA posted earlier, this team even with EK and Hoffman, is not good enough to be a contender, and at least one of them had to go regardless. Does it really make sense for THIS team to have signed EK for 8 years at 11 million? Could easily be argued no.

I think history shows that we can’t be a cap team when the cap is this high, there is not enough revenue alone to fund that in this market, and the owner isn’t wealthy enough or inclined to fund it out of his own pocket.

However, we can continue to be a budget team. We’re not a cap floor team and never have been. We should be able to retain the core as we typically have in the past.

The only wrench I see is that a large reduction in fan support could be reflected in a reduced budget given that EM has years ago told us that the budget is directly tied to team revenues.

I don’t buy the idea that we’re just developing players as a ‘feeder’ team. Brass was better than Zib at the time of the trade and we were in ‘now’ mode, and Zib wasn’t a character player that PD desires. Duchene is so much better than Turris, and EK and the team seemed to mutually have been unable/disinterested to make a deal (EK’s best years are behind him anyways in terms of being a league development team).

We just don’t have a history of selling off our best talent to the rest of the league, and while the team is in turmoil I don’t see it happening anytime soon. EM is a lot of things, but I believe that he loves his team, even if he is not as enamoured with the city’s fans and vice versa.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Personally I don’t buy into this, we have always been a middle of the pack spender and have signed our stars in the past.

I’d wait and see what we do with Stone and Duchene before creating an entire future on a supposition. I mean you only have to wait a few more months right? In any case, given that we have started a rebuild, it could be fairly argued that it makes sense to trade away our our top assets for picks and prospects (I’d prefer to keep both) and/or that they would not want to stick around for a rebuild. As SOA posted earlier, this team even with EK and Hoffman, is not good enough to be a contender, and at least one of them had to go regardless. Does it really make sense for THIS team to have signed EK for 8 years at 11 million? Could easily be argued no.

I think history shows that we can’t be a cap team when the cap is this high, there is not enough revenue alone to fund that in this market, and the owner isn’t wealthy enough or inclined to fund it out of his own pocket.

However, we can continue to be a budget team. We’re not a cap floor team and never have been. We should be able to retain the core as we typically have in the past.

The only wrench I see is that a large reduction in fan support could be reflected in a reduced budget given that EM has years ago told us that the budget is directly tied to team revenues.

I don’t buy the idea that we’re just developing players as a ‘feeder’ team. Brass was better than Zib at the time of the trade and we were in ‘now’ mode, and Zib wasn’t a character player that PD desires. Duchene is so much better than Turris, and EK and the team seemed to mutually have been unable/disinterested to make a deal (EK’s best years are behind him anyways in terms of being a league development team).

We just don’t have a history of selling off our best talent to the rest of the league, and while the team is in turmoil I don’t see it happening anytime soon. EM is a lot of things, but I believe that he loves his team, even if he is not as enamoured with the city’s fans and vice versa.

We're in uncharted waters, the relationship between Melnyk and the city/fans has never been this bad. Attendance has never been this bad. The apathy surrounding this team has never been this bad. People are angry at Melnyk right now, but it's slowly turning into them simply not even caring enough to be mad. Melnyk already cut our budget majorly this offseason. Why would he all of a sudden raise it in a few years when it can only be assumed that attendance will continue to decline?

And this isn't a rebuild, people need to stop calling it that. It's a selling of assets because we don't want to pay them. This isn't something we're going to climb out of, this is something we're stuck in until Melnyk either drops dead or sells the team.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We're in uncharted waters, the relationship between Melnyk and the city/fans has never been this bad. Attendance has never been this bad. The apathy surrounding this team has never been this bad. People are angry at Melnyk right now, but it's slowly turning into them simply not even caring enough to be mad. Melnyk already cut our budget majorly this offseason. Why would he all of a sudden raise it in a few years when it can only be assumed that attendance will continue to decline?

And this isn't a rebuild, people need to stop calling it that. It's a selling of assets because we don't want to pay them. This isn't something we're going to climb out of, this is something we're stuck in until Melnyk either drops dead or sells the team.

I’m sorry but this post reads like a massive excuse to not attend games or continue to be a fan of the team. I mean if this is truly how you feel why in the world are you still hanging around here? Just to vent?

EK wasn’t traded because we couldn’t afford him, he had no intensions of extending here for personal reasons, and we did make an 88 million dollar offer that could very easily be negotiated off (before denying it happened remember that EK talked a lot about a contract extension and his main worry was a sign and trade, he has NEVER denied that an offer was made or denied the rumored deal mentioned in the news). That’s not chump change, that’s a massive amount of money regardless of whether it was paid as usual or in massive bonus chunks. It just doesn’t support the silly idea that there is no money for players. As a side note it’s possible that that ends up being the high water mark for EKs next deal.

As for the rest, blame EM for fan apathy, then suggest that fan apathy is going to lead to less revenue, and then suppose that that will lead to a smaller budget and thus less money for players. Then be doom and gloom about the future of the team, and at the same time absolve yourself of any responsibility. Makes sense....

I read your post as mean gene hurt your feelings, so now you’re going to stop supporting the team, and then blame EM for a cheaper product on the ice. I mean if you want a good team on the ice you have to be prepared to pay for it, since you’re not, you should be prepared to accept what happens rather than continue to pass the blame.

Like it or not it takes two to tango. I wonder if you folks are as unforgiving towards your partners, friends, and family. I mean the team is clearly working towards wooing fans back and making the on ice and off ice product better, certain fans are simply not willing to be wooed (hopefully just playing hard to get).

In the end if one side is making overatures and one side is unreceptive, that side can’t continue to fairly assign blame outwardly indefinitely. The team has work to do, but fans have to be receptive.

Honestly to me so many of you are behaving like a partner who was cheated on. All you want is revenge at the moment, and you’re revelling in all real and imaginary negativity surrounding the team because you hope it’s hurting EM. Pretty typical behavior, however, like with your partner you have to eventually decide if you’re willing to forgive and forget, or if you need to break up and move on. You can’t do both indefinitely, as eventually you become the the problem.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I’m sorry but this post reads like a massive excuse to not attend games or continue to be a fan of the team. I mean if this is truly how you feel why in the world are you still hanging around here? Just to vent?

EK wasn’t traded because we couldn’t afford him, he had no intensions of extending here for personal reasons, and we did make an 88 million dollar offer that could very easily be negotiated off (before denying it happened remember that EK talked a lot about a contract extension and his main worry was a sign and trade, he has NEVER denied that an offer was made or denied the rumored deal mentioned in the news). That’s not chump change, that’s a massive amount of money regardless of whether it was paid as usual or in massive bonus chunks. It just doesn’t support the silly idea that there is no money for players. As a side note it’s possible that that ends up being the high water mark for EKs next deal.

As for the rest, blame EM for fan apathy, then suggest that fan apathy is going to lead to less revenue, and then suppose that that will lead to a smaller budget and thus less money for players. Then be doom and gloom about the future of the team, and at the same time absolve yourself of any responsibility. Makes sense....

I read your post as mean gene hurt your feelings, so now you’re going to stop supporting the team, and then blame EM for a cheaper product on the ice. I mean if you want a good team on the ice you have to be prepared to pay for it, since you’re not, you should be prepared to accept what happens rather than continue to pass the blame.

Like it or not it takes two to tango. I wonder if you folks are as unforgiving towards your partners, friends, and family. I mean the team is clearly working towards wooing fans back and making the on ice and off ice product better, certain fans are simply not willing to be wooed (hopefully just playing hard to get).

In the end if one side is making overatures and one side is unreceptive, that side can’t continue to fairly assign blame outwardly indefinitely. The team has work to do, but fans have to be receptive.

Honestly to me so many of you are behaving like a partner who was cheated on. All you want is revenge at the moment, and you’re revelling in all real and imaginary negativity surrounding the team because you hope it’s hurting EM. Pretty typical behavior, however, like with your partner you have to eventually decide if you’re willing to forgive and forget, or if you need to break up and move on. You can’t do both indefinitely, as eventually you become the the problem.

No sense arguing here, clearly you've been drinking the kool-aid. Lol @ clearly trying to woo fans back to game, pretty laughable someone would believe that.

And newsflash: I don't have a responsibility. Ottawa Senators is an entertainment product, I don't owe anything to the team. If they want people to come to the games it's on them to try to get fans to go, it's not some bullshit fake ass responsibility on the fans.

As to why I'm still here, well this is kind of my last chance to see Stone and Duchene in a Sens jersey. Once they lose those guys, and they will, I'll probably just stop watching hockey for a while.

 

[Liver King]

people need to understand that if players don't want to sign here - that is the fault of the GM and Owner

the only information we have on Karlsson not wanting to sign here was directly because of Melnyk. Same with Alfie for that matter.

so utterly stupid when people say 'its not the teams fault if the player doesn't want to sign an extension' - it is absolutely 100% the organization fault (GM & Owner)

and what a silly comment above: so if I pay for shitty coffee the coffee shop will start making better coffee? lmfao you don't invest your money into a garbage product so the product will improve - that is horrendous logic - the organization must invest to make a good product so consumers will purchase it. Wake up.

 

[Ice-Tray]

No sense arguing here, clearly you've been drinking the kool-aid. Lol @ clearly trying to woo fans back to game, pretty laughable someone would believe that.

And newsflash: I don't have a responsibility. Ottawa Senators is an entertainment product, I don't owe anything to the team. If they want people to come to the games it's on them to try to get fans to go, it's not some bull**** fake ass responsibility on the fans.

As to why I'm still here, well this is kind of my last chance to see Stone and Duchene in a Sens jersey. Once they lose those guys, and they will, I'll probably just stop watching hockey for a while.

Koolaid gets such a bad rap....

Well, customers do have a responsibility to a business in so much as if they expect it to stick around in their town they need to patron the business, or accept that others will have to take on the responsibility, or market forces will dictate a more desirable location.

If the team stays and weathers this storm a lot of you angry fans may have to line up to thank people like Coladin for stepping up and taking the weight while you found pleasure in trying to grind the organization into the dirt to spite the owner.

Sure, maybe fans like me are koolaid drinking fools, but it’s those local fools that are keeping your beloved Senators in town.

 

[GCK]

We went into a rebuild without a 1st round pick

Why have patients for a management team and ownership group - along with a terrible coach - that have no ****ing clue what they are doing

So you think we should postpone the rebuild for 1 year because we have no 1st round pick. That is asinine, to take a 30th place team and do nothing for 1 year so that fans have an extra year of pain before starting the rebuild.

 

[Liver King]

So you think we should postpone the rebuild for 1 year because we have no 1st round pick. That is asinine, to take a 30th place team and do nothing for 1 year so that fans have an extra year of pain before starting the rebuild.

I am saying we should not have rebuilt with 3 star NHL players on the roster and - as we can see now - an abundance of NHL ready prospects (Chabot White and Tkachuk most notably)

what is painted as a rebuild is really a cheap owner and a moronic GM trying to run an NHL team.

the value of a rebuild IS TO GET HIGH END DRAFT PICKS - you cannot do that without 1st round picks lmao

doing nothing for one year IS EXACTLY what we are doing this season. Losing for nothing.

 

[solidprospect]

You can only re patch dry wall so many times before it needs to replaced. Not saying the sens are like drywall but just using an analogy.

We made the playoffs for 11 consecutive seasons and it wasn't by fluke. We had a core of good players drafted and a leader the fans and team followed as much as they could. i think we'll get back to that but it will take time.

Alfie,Redden, Fisher, Kelly, Vermette, Hossa, Havlat and more, who was responsible for most of them, wasn't it Pierre Gauthier?

 

[Ice-Tray]

We went into a rebuild without a 1st round pick

Why have patients for a management team and ownership group - along with a terrible coach - that have no ****ing clue what they are doing

Get over it, we went for it, on a budget because we’re a budget team, and it failed spectacularly in large part because the room split and collapsed.

Get upset about all that sure, but are you seriously purposing that we should have continued with the same core and tried again this season, especially with all of our UFAs, EK especially who wasn’t going to sing here, all because we didn’t have a 1sr round pick next draft?? Do you think Stone and Duchene would even be considering extending after another season like last year? Andy would likely be fine since he wanted no part in the drama, and so Condin would be leading the charge??

Do you really expect that we would have fared so much better than the second last placing last year? Add that we’d be looking at even less of a return on EK, and be sitting at what could quite likely be the same or worse draft position than where we’re sitting today.

Putting off everything we did this summer, all over a 1st round pick would be the finest example of horrendous management of a professional sports team.

 

[Liver King]

Get over it, we went for it, on a budget because we’re a budget team, and it failed spectacularly in large part because the room split and collapsed.

Get upset about all that sure, but are you seriously purposing that we should have continued with the same core and tried again this season, especially with all of our UFAs, EK especially who wasn’t going to sing here, all because we didn’t have a 1sr round pick next draft?? Do you think Stone and Duchene would even be considering extending after another season like last year? Andy would likely be fine since he wanted no part in the drama, and so Condin would be leading the charge??

Do you really expect that we would have fared so much better than the second last placing last year? Add that we’d be looking at even less of a return on EK, and be sitting at what could quite likely be the same or worse draft position than where we’re sitting today.

Putting off everything we did this summer, all over a 1st round pick would be the finest example of horrendous management of a professional sports team.

That is exactly my point - I would not have 'rebuilt' this team with star players on the roster and an abundance of ready now prospects

players are not goiing to sign here because our Owner is a piece of shit and our GM is horrendous. We also have a bad coach - THAT IS ON THE ORGANIZATION that players will not sign here.

I have absolutely zero confidence in this organizations ability to rebuild effectively - or do anything effectively. That is the problem and that is the point. Fans are allowed to criticize the organization and they should - Ottawa has a lot to be criticized for.

What we did last summer was keep the same terrible coaching staff and trade two of our best players for mediocre returns. While keeping AHL plugs on the roster. You rebuild to get that high end 1st round pick - thats the damn point of a rebuild - turn over the roster - lose - get high end draft picks lol

"we should rebuild because franchise players don't wanna play here" news flash - thats a f***ing problem and that problems stems from the top. What are we rebuilding towards- the continual turn over of star players?

you get over sipping the kool-aid and wake the hell up to what is happening

 

[GCK]

people need to understand that if players don't want to sign here - that is the fault of the GM and Owner

the only information we have on Karlsson not wanting to sign here was directly because of Melnyk. Same with Alfie for that matter.

so utterly stupid when people say 'its not the teams fault if the player doesn't want to sign an extension' - it is absolutely 100% the organization fault (GM & Owner)

and what a silly comment above: so if I pay for ****ty coffee the coffee shop will start making better coffee? lmfao you don't invest your money into a garbage product so the product will improve - that is horrendous logic - the organization must invest to make a good product so consumers will purchase it. Wake up.

Agreed on Melnyk. Still waiting for one example where a player said Dorion was the problem.

 

[stempniaksen]

We already have like 10 threads that have devolved into EM threads on these boards. Can we leave that garbage outta the trade thread?

 

[Liver King]

Agreed on Melnyk. Still waiting for one example where a player said Dorion was the problem.

Well I think Dorion is a problem from both a marketing perspective - absolutely the worst possible person I want as the face of an organization that is not attracting its market effectively. Secondly he is a rookie GM who has been outclassed in most trades - just not very confident in his pro scouting abilities or his ability to negotiate against more established GM's

I do however think, as a rookie, he like anyone can improve so although I do not like him as a GM he can easily win me over with some quality trades/signings - and he has had a few already so I am hopeful those can continue

 

[Silencio]

According to CapFriendly.com, the Senators lead the NHL in cap dollars spent on injured players.

And people say Melnyk is a cheapskate

 

[Qward]

If Detroit wants a 1st for Howard, that means that is what Anderson should be worth, meaning Dorion could probably move one of our thirds next year up a couple spots.

 

[GCK]

I am saying we should not have rebuilt with 3 star NHL players on the roster and - as we can see now - an abundance of NHL ready prospects (Chabot White and Tkachuk most notably)

what is painted as a rebuild is really a cheap owner and a moronic GM trying to run an NHL team.

the value of a rebuild IS TO GET HIGH END DRAFT PICKS - you cannot do that without 1st round picks lmao

doing nothing for one year IS EXACTLY what we are doing this season. Losing for nothing.

Really. So Chabot's development by being the #1 dman, or getting Tkachuk and White into the top 6, or not going and getting some vet plug (Oduya) on the back end to try and coax 9th in the conference isn't moving forward because of 1 pick. You really are way too focused on a single pick in a 3-4 year rebuild. Are you thinking that we are missing McDavid or Matthews this year, because we aren't.

 

[GCK]

If Detroit wants a 1st for Howard, that means that is what Anderson should be worth, meaning Dorion could probably move one of our thirds next year up a couple spots.

Detroit might want a first for Howard, but I will be mind blown if they get one. Not going to happen IMO.