Speculation: Trade Rumors Part XI

[The Mighty Duck Man]

That's certainly a lot of spin on it, especially the Perron parts. If getting rid of Perron was their sole goal, they would've either waited it out or sold low on him, no reason to take on a fairly big contract in return. They obviously wanted Hagelin, and seeing how it's worked out, it's easy to see why. They might have gotten Hagelin without the second, but considering the timing of the two deals, it's pretty much impossible to say anything either way.

Palmieri's also cooled off quite a bit. They didn't get great value back, but hardly the "worst deal ever" you're making it out to be. They gave up on him for a reason, he very well might be his generations Brad Boyes.

 

[dracom]

This is just a bunch of ifs and ifs and ifs, but I guess I'll bite.

Firstly, the Palmieri deal was one of the ****tiest, dumbest deals we've made in a while. Sure, the Wild Bill/Wiz trade is one thing, but this was just on another level of stupid. There was no reason to sell KP at that time, for the return he eventually ended up going for. Zero. He was a 24-year-old forward on a great contract. He was a proven 30-point forward with lots of room to become better. And we sold him off for a couple of lousy draft picks? He's now having his breakout season in New Jersey, what do you think he'd be worth now?

Second, back at the draft, Bob and old Sather cooked up the Hagelin deal on the spot. Sather wanted to rid himself of Hagelin, because he couldn't afford him and so Hagelin ended up going for very little from our point of view. We didn't need the NJ pick to make that trade happen, I'm sure Sather would've just taken Etem and a small plus in return, but they ended up swapping some picks too just for the sake of it. It's not like that 2nd rounder made that deal happen.

Third, Hagelin just happened to conveniently be something JR accepted in return for Perron. We have to remember that Perron absolutely sucked in Pittsburgh, he didn't fit in there at all. There probably were many ways to make that Perron deal happen, JR was probably glad to see Perron go AND get something for him in return.

TL;DR -- NONE of this justifies the Palmieri trade. There is no excuse, no reason why that deal was "good" for us, it absolutely sucked.

I like that you're saying my posts are all ifs, while somehow yours isn't.

Palms was fine, when he decided to show up. He was a better Etem, but with the same consistency issue.

Those lousy draft picks, one that was used to trade with the Rangers for the pick that became Nattinen, you know, our only good center prospect. We also got a 3rd for this year from is, so who knows what the becomes.

Palms breakout season is a terrible excuse to have keep him. He is just another player that excels in another system. He didn't have that kind of success here, and he gave no reason to show he would get better here. Whatever system that NJ is using benefits Palms more than ours, and that's the reason why he is having a breakout season.

How do you know we didn't need the NJ pick for Hagelin? Unless there is actual evidence that says so, then you're talking out your ass. What we DO know is we needed NJ's 2nd round pick to make that Hagelin trade happen. And just to remind you, that trade gave us Nattinen.

Again, how do you know that JR would have taken something else for Perron? If JR wanted to get rid of him so badly, there are plenty of teams that could have used a LW like him. But, guess what, we don't know if JR would have taken something else from us. What we DO know is that he wanted Hagelin, and he got him. And we got Perron. Hagelin is showing success in their system, and Perron is showing success in ours (weird how a system can matter to a players system, like Palms).

I'm not saying we couldn't have gotten a better deal out of trading Palms, but that trade has helped us become a better team in the end. That's what matters.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

offer a first for staal, eriksson, ladd and see if anyone will bite

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Of course as I say he's cooled off he scores haha.

 

[Goose of Reason]

Of course as I say he's cooled off he scores haha.

And a snipe at that.

 

[duxfan1101]

And a snipe at that.

Pretty awful goaltending to be fair.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Saw last thread was closed. I think it's been mentioned before, but I'd really like to see Bob go after Jarome Iginla if we were to upgrade Stewart's spot and if they would take Stoner/another contract their way. His size and style of play would fit well on that line, and still has a bit left in him. Obviously his leadership would help as well. I don't think he would be too costly and generally seems like the type of move Bob would realistically make. Something around Stoner and B prospect and or pick, perhaps Petersson?

I suggested Iginla awhile back, I know he's not the same player he once was but our style is much more suited to his game than the Avs. I think he'd be an excellent fit alongside Perron - Getzlaf, plus we'd be adding invaluable leadership and experience.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I suggested Iginla awhile back, I know he's not the same player he once was but our style is much more suited to his game than the Avs. I think he'd be an excellent fit alongside Perron - Getzlaf, plus we'd be adding invaluable leadership and experience.

I agree, but he won't move in-season, so that won't be happening.

 

[Nordic*]

Berglund would be amazing in Anaheim. Can play both wing and center. Big strong guy who would help offensive zone time a lot.

 

[caliamad]

Berglund would be amazing in Anaheim. Can play both wing and center. Big strong guy who would help offensive zone time a lot.

Why would stl move him?

 

[AngelDuck]

I've always seen Berglund as a guy who should be much better than he actually is. I'd pass

 

[OCSportsfan]

This is just a bunch of ifs and ifs and ifs, but I guess I'll bite.

Firstly, the Palmieri deal was one of the ****tiest, dumbest deals we've made in a while. Sure, the Wild Bill/Wiz trade is one thing, but this was just on another level of stupid. There was no reason to sell KP at that time, for the return he eventually ended up going for. Zero. He was a 24-year-old forward on a great contract. He was a proven 30-point forward with lots of room to become better. And we sold him off for a couple of lousy draft picks? He's now having his breakout season in New Jersey, what do you think he'd be worth now?

Second, back at the draft, Bob and old Sather cooked up the Hagelin deal on the spot. Sather wanted to rid himself of Hagelin, because he couldn't afford him and so Hagelin ended up going for very little from our point of view. We didn't need the NJ pick to make that trade happen, I'm sure Sather would've just taken Etem and a small plus in return, but they ended up swapping some picks too just for the sake of it. It's not like that 2nd rounder made that deal happen.

Third, Hagelin just happened to conveniently be something JR accepted in return for Perron. We have to remember that Perron absolutely sucked in Pittsburgh, he didn't fit in there at all. There probably were many ways to make that Perron deal happen, JR was probably glad to see Perron go AND get something for him in return.

TL;DR -- NONE of this justifies the Palmieri trade. There is no excuse, no reason why that deal was "good" for us, it absolutely sucked.

Why do you hate BM so much. He has kept this team competitive and has them set up for a while with some nice prospects.

As for Palmieri, he made a choice between him and Silf and he chose the RFA for last year over the one for next year (his great contract was for just this year). Palms was inconsistent in his mind and was outplayed on the 2nd line by Silf in the playoffs. BB decided Palms could not play on the LW with Getz, so it was either trade him or put him on the 4th line. He chose the correct path. I dont think he could have gotten much more for him based on his play last year. Rather than complain about the Palms trade, complain that BM likes Silf over Palms, because one of them was going. I liked Palms but he is gone, get over it.

As far as what the other GM's would have taken in other trades, who knows. I liked the Hageln deal, it just did not work out. Etem is a bottom 6 player and he was getting what he thought was a top 6 player. You have to add to get that.

As far as Perron. Sure he sucked in Pitt, but Hagelin sucked in Ana. So it was a trade to get rid of the salary (for 4 years) of a player that did not fit (great move) and take a chance on one that does.

Glad you pointed those out, since I think it shows how good BM is at his job.

 

[Nordic*]

Why would stl move him?

If they have a defenceman they'd like, perhaps Vatanen, they might move him.

I've always seen Berglund as a guy who should be much better than he actually is. I'd pass

Exactly my point. He doesn't fit in STL:s system, would be great in ours, which is a little slower.

He can play in all situations, is a big guy and still fairly young.

 

[Exit Dose]

I very much prefer option 2. But I would prefer it in the summer. Too risky to make now. But I like it because I see it having lasting value as opposed to a rental, one and done. Trading from strength to add a legit, young top 6 F makes a lot of sense to me.

While I'm with you on your choice of option(though I think it's technically option 3), I would hesitate to wait till the summer if a deal can be made. Sometimes you have to seize an opportunity while it's there, regardless of the convenience of the timing.

 

[Opak]

I like that you're saying my posts are all ifs, while somehow yours isn't.

Palms was fine, when he decided to show up. He was a better Etem, but with the same consistency issue.

Those lousy draft picks, one that was used to trade with the Rangers for the pick that became Nattinen, you know, our only good center prospect. We also got a 3rd for this year from is, so who knows what the becomes.

Palms breakout season is a terrible excuse to have keep him. He is just another player that excels in another system. He didn't have that kind of success here, and he gave no reason to show he would get better here. Whatever system that NJ is using benefits Palms more than ours, and that's the reason why he is having a breakout season.

How do you know we didn't need the NJ pick for Hagelin? Unless there is actual evidence that says so, then you're talking out your ass. What we DO know is we needed NJ's 2nd round pick to make that Hagelin trade happen. And just to remind you, that trade gave us Nattinen.

Again, how do you know that JR would have taken something else for Perron? If JR wanted to get rid of him so badly, there are plenty of teams that could have used a LW like him. But, guess what, we don't know if JR would have taken something else from us. What we DO know is that he wanted Hagelin, and he got him. And we got Perron. Hagelin is showing success in their system, and Perron is showing success in ours (weird how a system can matter to a players system, like Palms).

I'm not saying we couldn't have gotten a better deal out of trading Palms, but that trade has helped us become a better team in the end. That's what matters.

My comment about ifs was targeted to this particular discussion topic in general, I wasn't trying to say my ifs are better than yours, or anything like that.

I'm also aware that we got Nättinen (and Metcalf, and another pick) as a part of last summer's shenanigans. He's a nice prospect, but the fact that he's the best we have tells more about our prospect pool in general than his overall level of talent. It's still a bad return for Palmieri, but I guess we just have to disagree on that one.

As far as "proof" is concerned - I have none. But then again, neither have you. What we do know for a fact is that Bob and Sather made the Hagelin trade in a very spontaneous fashion, there was nothing premeditated about that whatsoever. Bob did not have some "greater plan" to turn Palmieri into Hagelin, plain and simple. Even if we didn't have that NJ pick, there could've been many other options that could've been considered to make the deal come to fruition. To claim that this was "the one and only way", just because it came to fruition is a very narrow-minded and asinine way to look at things. Sure, the deal wouldn't have happened in it's current form, but that doesn't mean Hagelin couldn't have been a Duck without the NJ pick. Until you give definitive proof that Sather specifically insisted on getting that draft pick, your word is just as good as mine, and you're talking out of your ass just as much as I am.

I'm going to extend this argument to Perron as well, as I refuse to believe that JR insisted on having "this very particular piece of garbage" for my garbage, to make the trade happen. JR wasn't getting much for Perron anyway, he could've easily sold him off for something else too.

You say that all of this is acceptable, because it made our team better. Sure, it's nice having Perron around (now that he's actually producing), but that still doesn't make that initial KP trade any better, it's still terrible. Think of it this way - if JR dealt Lovejoy for a draft pick that eventually becomes a star player for Pittsburgh, does that make the initial Despres - Lovejoy trade "validated" or "good"? Just because a GM lucked his way out of a mess he created doesn't mean that his previous moves were good.

Why do you hate BM so much. He has kept this team competitive and has them set up for a while with some nice prospects.

As for Palmieri, he made a choice between him and Silf and he chose the RFA for last year over the one for next year (his great contract was for just this year). Palms was inconsistent in his mind and was outplayed on the 2nd line by Silf in the playoffs. BB decided Palms could not play on the LW with Getz, so it was either trade him or put him on the 4th line. He chose the correct path. I dont think he could have gotten much more for him based on his play last year. Rather than complain about the Palms trade, complain that BM likes Silf over Palms, because one of them was going. I liked Palms but he is gone, get over it.

As far as what the other GM's would have taken in other trades, who knows. I liked the Hageln deal, it just did not work out. Etem is a bottom 6 player and he was getting what he thought was a top 6 player. You have to add to get that.

As far as Perron. Sure he sucked in Pitt, but Hagelin sucked in Ana. So it was a trade to get rid of the salary (for 4 years) of a player that did not fit (great move) and take a chance on one that does.

Glad you pointed those out, since I think it shows how good BM is at his job.

First of all, I don't hate anyone. I know I critique Bob a lot, I don't approve of a lot of the stuff he does and I've even called for his firing a couple of times, but I don't hate him. I know I have a lot of opinions and I certainly have no difficulties expressing them vocally, but believe it or not, I have no secret "anti-Bob" agenda in this. The reason why I replied to dracom's post was to disagree with a point he made, not to take a swift jab at Bob.

 

[xxreact9]

I like that you're saying my posts are all ifs, while somehow yours isn't.

Palms was fine, when he decided to show up. He was a better Etem, but with the same consistency issue.

Those lousy draft picks, one that was used to trade with the Rangers for the pick that became Nattinen, you know, our only good center prospect. We also got a 3rd for this year from is, so who knows what the becomes.

Palms breakout season is a terrible excuse to have keep him. He is just another player that excels in another system. He didn't have that kind of success here, and he gave no reason to show he would get better here. Whatever system that NJ is using benefits Palms more than ours, and that's the reason why he is having a breakout season.

How do you know we didn't need the NJ pick for Hagelin? Unless there is actual evidence that says so, then you're talking out your ass. What we DO know is we needed NJ's 2nd round pick to make that Hagelin trade happen. And just to remind you, that trade gave us Nattinen.

Again, how do you know that JR would have taken something else for Perron? If JR wanted to get rid of him so badly, there are plenty of teams that could have used a LW like him. But, guess what, we don't know if JR would have taken something else from us. What we DO know is that he wanted Hagelin, and he got him. And we got Perron. Hagelin is showing success in their system, and Perron is showing success in ours (weird how a system can matter to a players system, like Palms).

I'm not saying we couldn't have gotten a better deal out of trading Palms, but that trade has helped us become a better team in the end. That's what matters.

This.

The Palmieri trade criticism is extremely exaggerated. He was not improving here, he was frequently a healthy scratch, altogether inconsistent and mostly importantly: HE WAS NOT EARNING TOP-6 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A player like Palms isn't bottom-6 material, it's top-6 or bust. He was getting to the age where development starts to halt, and BM wasn't seeing any steady improvement from him over time.

It just so happens the change of scenery and the NJD system brought out a Palmieri that we saw very infrequently in his time here. Who knows how he'd be playing on another team right now, it could be largely circumstantial. A 2nd round pick also has a lot of value in today's game, so AT THE TIME the decision was made, it wasn't entirely unreasonable. I don't recall an outrage from duck fans until Palmieri broke out in NJ, which is the definition of hindsight.

 

[xxreact9]

Well Opak, if you're consistently disagreeing with a GM who continually gets nominated for (or wins) the award for best GM in the sport many years in a row, maybe it's time to take a break and let him do his thing.

I can think of 25-29 other teams that would love to be in Anaheim's position right now.

 

[Jack Bauer DAMNIT]

Ever since the Perron acquisition I have thought he plays a very similar game to Palm. Nose for the gritty scoring areas, ability to read and anticipate the play, and patience to make the right descision.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

This.

The Palmieri trade criticism is extremely exaggerated. He was not improving here, he was frequently a healthy scratch, altogether inconsistent and mostly importantly: HE WAS NOT EARNING TOP-6 MINUTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A player like Palms isn't bottom-6 material, it's top-6 or bust. He was getting to the age where development starts to halt, and BM wasn't seeing any steady improvement from him over time.

It just so happens the change of scenery and the NJD system brought out a Palmieri that we saw very infrequently in his time here. Who knows how he'd be playing on another team right now, it could be largely circumstantial. A 2nd round pick also has a lot of value in today's game, so AT THE TIME the decision was made, it wasn't entirely unreasonable. I don't recall an outrage from duck fans until Palmieri broke out in NJ, which is the definition of hindsight.

Actually, that's not true. Palmieri was actually Kesler's most common RW last year. He's had his chances, and actually produced at decent rates.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

While I'm with you on your choice of option(though I think it's technically option 3), I would hesitate to wait till the summer if a deal can be made. Sometimes you have to seize an opportunity while it's there, regardless of the convenience of the timing.

Well, you're right in that if you pass now, the same deal may not be there later. But based on Bob's past philosophy of keeping the team intact for the playoffs, I doubt he would pull the trigger on that kind of deal before summer.

 

[Getzmonster]

Well Opak, if you're consistently disagreeing with a GM who continually gets nominated for (or wins) the award for best GM in the sport many years in a row, maybe it's time to take a break and let him do his thing.

I can think of 25-29 other teams that would love to be in Anaheim's position right now.

The GMOTY award has only been around for a handful of years, and by that measure, Shero and Gillis are also some of the best in the biz.

Murray hating is one thing, but you are equally heavy-handed as an apologist. Murray made some poor decisions this summer, and rather than building on last season's success and helping the team take another step, he had to scramble to make recovery moves that have, at best, taken the team laterally. With the financial walls closing in, and our NHL-ready depth forward prospect pool growing ever thinner, he hasn't exactly maximized this Cup window.

As for Palmieri, many, including myself, were negative at the time of that trade. Just as with the Bieksa/Beauch swap and the Hagelin signing. No hindsight was needed, as things played out in a way that only confirmed the earlier criticism.

 

[Getzmonster]

In the 1.2.3. options above (AD's post), I don't think the rental option necessarily equates to a Ladd or Eriksson or similar, it could also mean a cheap depth guy with a little 2nd line upside, consistent with most of Murray's forward pick ups. This is the most likely outcome imo. I don't see him standing pat, but I don't see him getting into the mix on the big ticket guys. He'll make a solid depth move. I'd say the next most likely outcome is a hockey trade for a guy with term, but that'll be tough at the deadline, I'm expecting that more this summer.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Well Opak, if you're consistently disagreeing with a GM who continually gets nominated for (or wins) the award for best GM in the sport many years in a row, maybe it's time to take a break and let him do his thing.

I can think of 25-29 other teams that would love to be in Anaheim's position right now.

The issue with BM isn't the work he does in-season - he's actually quite good at repairing his mistakes and holes in the roster. The problem with BM is his complete lack of an offseason team vision outside of trying to remold the team into whoever just won the Cup, and his apparent complete disregard for the preferred style of his current coaches.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

The issue with BM isn't the work he does in-season - he's actually quite good at repairing his mistakes and holes in the roster. The problem with BM is his complete lack of an offseason team vision outside of trying to remold the team into whoever just won the Cup, and his apparent complete disregard for the preferred style of his current coaches.

For as much as its been said about Murray playing copycat, including by him, I'm not sure how true it really is. This offseason was a good example, where he said with the Hagelin trade he wanted to add speed, yet every other move really wasn't about that. Maybe he struck out quite a bit on that end that we don't know about, but the last few years I would say he has been pretty consistent with what he's added in the offseason, mainly size.

 

[Hedning]

Felt like he looked at games versus speed-teams last season (Rangers, Tampa, Chicago, etc...) And thought that the team needed at least some more added speed in the line-up. And maybe he also thought that Hags was a bit more of a physical forechecker than he showed in a Ducks uni. But when his play didn't click with the style of play the Ducks play, he came back to what had worked in the past.

While at the same time, BB had also tweaked his game plan a bit... lots of focus on the d/neutral zone before the winning streaks begun, and when the forwards finally started to produce. Still is focus on the defensive game, but not really to the extent as earlier.

The only loss of Hags so far is on the PK. Otherwise it's an excellent trade. Even if he started to look a bit better on the ice, just before the trade.

Just my 2¢

Saw that L Eriksson & Boston apparently aren't in there same stratosphere atm. If there's still any interest to add him for a serious cup run. But if so, of course without losing anything too substantial.
Link