Trade Proposals and Free Agency Thread - 2017 Edition Pt. II

[SprDaVE]

The core players are currently on the team.

How many Marlies will ever become core players? 3 - Kapanen, Dermott, Liljegren?

So if you're after picks then everyone on the Marlies outside those 3 should be available, along with everyone not considered core on the current Leafs team.

It would make more sense to trade Marlies for picks than top 9 players on the Leafs. Outside of the 3 mentioned above, most of the other Marlies are unlikely to ever contribute as much as anyone currently on the Leafs.

I'm okay if the only untouchable is Matthews.

It's also okay to admit that we're a good team and good teams rarely ever give up a player like JVR. They usually ADD to the team and keep their veterans. Whens the last time a top team traded a 30+ goal scorer for picks or even just another roster player? Turris for Duchene is one but that was incredibly questionable... and before that? It's not like the Preds had to trade a roster player for another. They traded picks/prospects and re-signed Turris. The argument now becomes "Well Nashville is a contender!"... why can't we be considered that?

It's a lot more likely the Leafs look at potentially trading Kapanen, Leivo and/or other younger pieces/picks to get they think is an upgrade. It's also possible they don't do anything like that. I dunno.

 

[Walshy7]

Friedman wrote:


I believe what he was getting at was the Oilers looked in too Leivo or Sosh but the price of acquiring either was higher than that of acquiring Cammalleri. Which means that Leivo and Sosh are more valuable than Jussi Jokinen which isnt really news.

oh camerlerri right haha sorry,

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's definitely not off. The East is wide open and the Leafs could easily be a legit cup contender by the time the playoffs come rolling around.

I never said trading JVR couldn't return something good, I'm just saying his contract value and current contributions make it near impossible for the Leafs to get something fair back.

Lamoriello and the Leafs dropped the ball on their off-season and now we might as well just go for it, especially with JVRs current value to us versus on the open market.

Some might see it as dropping the ball, I see it as knowing what you have and deciding it has a certain value you're not willing to move off of to facilitate a deal. Don't be shocked when JVR & TML announce an extension. 8x36-42m is my guess. Bozak is done here and I think Leo walks in the summer unless he re-ups for under 2m, but big game James is sticking around.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Ottawa? Pittsburgh? Ok... Hardly dominating right now. Tampa Bay is the only team that is legitimately dominating at every aspect.

If we can have a goaltender that can put up respectable average numbers, the Leafs will be a top 2/3 team in the East and that is what you need to be to be considered a contender.

PIT may not be dominating now but we all know how good they are, or don't we?

If ... goaltender ... every team would be better if only this and if only that so I'm not impressed. If's can also go the other way, there's no reason to assume we'll be better by springtime then we are right now. I hope we are, but to count on it would be foolish. Plus even if Andersen picks it up, there's no guarantee that everyone else stays at the same level and let's be honest, it's not like every other player on the team is playing amazing right now.

Oh they probably are but they still have the emotional ties to their teammates, especially the one who've been with him for awhile. And I would imagine the players would be happy with the deal if it does improve the team. That's why the team could probably get behind a move that bolsters the blue line if one happens. But to trade JVR for just futures? I don't know if think they'd support it given where they are in the standings. Unless that move is coupled with another to improve the team now.

I'll admit it's a dicey situation and we can't know for sure how players would take it. Let's say it happens though and as you say, some players don't "support it". What happens? Do they stop playing hard? Or do they mourn for a while, and then get over it and play? And if they do sulk for a while, what happens when at some point later, those futures are flipped for a player that makes our team distinctly better, will they get over it then? Perhaps all's well that ends well?

I just think that if there's a smart move to be made, we should make it and not making it because we're afraid of how the players feel is just wrong. Let the GM do his job and the players do their job. When players manage it rarely works out well.

The core players are currently on the team.

How many Marlies will ever become core players? 3 - Kapanen, Dermott, Liljegren?

So if you're after picks then everyone on the Marlies outside those 3 should be available, along with everyone not considered core on the current Leafs team.

It would make more sense to trade Marlies for picks than top 9 players on the Leafs. Outside of the 3 mentioned above, most of the other Marlies are unlikely to ever contribute as much as anyone currently on the Leafs.

I'm okay if the only untouchable is Matthews.

We don't just need core players, we have an entire roster to fill and a few years from now when we're paying big bucks to our core, we'll need cheap talent to fill out the roster if we hope to contend.

It makes sense to trade top 9 guys only because if they walk as UFA's, that would suck. And if they do, we'll need those Marlies to replace them.

 

[SprDaVE]

Some might see it as dropping the ball, I see it as knowing what you have and deciding it has a certain value you're not willing to move off of to facilitate a deal. Don't be shocked when JVR & TML announce an extension. 8x36-42m is my guess. Bozak is done here and I think Leo walks in the summer unless he re-ups for under 2m, but big game James is sticking around.

There was a rumour JVR wanted to stay long-term and was willing to take a good deal to make it happen. Probably just JVRs agent saying the right things but either way, I would not be surprised if the Leafs keep JVR either if the price is between 5M and 6M. That's affordable and moveable.

 

[ShaneFalco]

There was a better article on it but found this:

There might be a way after all. According to NHL insider Pierre LeBrun, there haven’t been any serious contract discussions yet between the Maple Leafs and winger James van Riemsdyk, who’s eligible next summer for unrestricted free agency.
However, the insider noted on TSN that JvR would be willing to do an eight-year deal if it meant it was more cap friendly for the Leafs. But JvR will turn 29 next May and an eight-year deal might appear far too long at this stage in his career.

Report: Leafs star willing to make huge sacrifice for team's future!

It will be a retirement contract and I'd bet a full NTC/NMC

 

[Gary Nylund]

There was a rumour JVR wanted to stay long-term and was willing to take a good deal to make it happen. Probably just JVRs agent saying the right things but either way, I would not be surprised if the Leafs keep JVR either if the price is between 5M and 6M. That's affordable and moveable.

I guess anything's possible. I doubt it myself but if I'm wrong that of course changes everything. I would love to know how JVR is viewed within the organization and what their plans are, but then, I've been wanting to know that for well over a year now.

IIRC the JVR story was that he'd take less for an 8 year deal, isn't that pretty much what they all say? A bit more term for a bit less dollars, nothing new there. It doesn't mean he'd come cheap either (cheaper could still be 7M or more) and wouldn't you think that if they saw him as a Leaf long term, they would have gotten the deal done in the off-season?

 

[LaymanX]

I don't mind keeping JVR if he takes a bit of a cut. He scores goals that no one else can (in close, at weird angles, and often with set play deflections)

He is our answer to top tier goalies like Bob, Price, etc where we can't beat them conventionally.

Bozak on the other hand, I can see getting moved

 

[jaric1862]

Theres a higher chance the leafs re-sign Bozak then JVR. The leafs have no center depth and losing a guy like Bozak would create a huge gap that would not be easily filled. Re-signing him would also mean that the team can keep Matthews-Nylander together. Bozak will also come cheaper and on a shorter deal than JVR. Though we will not be able to replace JVR, We have incredible depth on the wings and we do not want JVR on an 8 year deal, no matter the dollar figure.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There was a better article on it but found this:

Report: Leafs star willing to make huge sacrifice for team's future!

It will be a retirement contract and I'd bet a full NTC/NMC

Yeah I'm more than skeptical about him taking a deal that would make sense for us. The gap between what someone will give him and what makes sense for us is just too big. And JVR has never been willing to sacrifce his body to win so are we to believe that money is something he would sacrifice?

I think this team would be much better off with picks/prospects instead of 8 years of JVR, a contract which would likely be untradable before long, especially with NMC clauses etc.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I guess anything's possible. I doubt it myself but if I'm wrong that of course changes everything. I would love to know how JVR is viewed within the organization and what their plans are, but then, I've been wanting to know that for well over a year now.

IIRC the JVR story was that he'd take less for an 8 year deal, isn't that pretty much what they all say? A bit more term for a bit less dollars, nothing new there. It doesn't mean he'd come cheap either (cheaper could still be 7M or more) and wouldn't you think that if they saw him as a Leaf long term, they would have gotten the deal done in the off-season?

His comps are all in the 5.25-6m x 6-7 year range. Stretch that to 8 and you're looking at 4.5-5.5m which is easily doable. Front load the deal for the first five years, pay a fat bonus July 1 of year 6 and if he's fallen of a cliff dump him with a pick to whoever is buying deals that help them reach the cap floor. The best use of the asset that is jvr is to have him potting 25-30 a season for the next 5 seasons, not trading him for a sack of magic beans.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Theres a higher chance the leafs re-sign Bozak then JVR. The leafs have no center depth and losing a guy like Bozak would create a huge gap that would not be easily filled. Re-signing him would also mean that the team can keep Matthews-Nylander together. Bozak will also come cheaper and on a shorter deal than JVR. Though we will not be able to replace JVR, We have incredible depth on the wings and we do not want JVR on an 8 year deal, no matter the dollar figure.

Long term down middle it's Matthews-Nylander-Kadri-Goat. Got to assume that's the plan and what the management team has on their projected big board going forward when calculating and preforming cap exercises.
Who in the organization do you see as a competent jvr replacement? Who on the Marlies or in junior is going to score 30 on a regular basis up on the big club.

 

[Gary Nylund]

His comps are all in the 5.25-6m x 6-7 year range. Stretch that to 8 and you're looking at 4.5-5.5m which is easily doable. Front load the deal for the first five years, pay a fat bonus July 1 of year 6 and if he's fallen of a cliff dump him with a pick to whoever is buying deals that help them reach the cap floor. The best use of the asset that is jvr is to have him potting 25-30 a season for the next 5 seasons, not trading him for a sack of magic beans.

Why do you think a deal wasn't done in the off-season, if they were planning on keeping would have better to do the deal then no? A year younger plus one year away from UFA status ... the fact that this wasn't done suggests to me that it won't be done.

 

[ToneDog]

I don't mind keeping JVR if he takes a bit of a cut. He scores goals that no one else can (in close, at weird angles, and often with set play deflections)

He is our answer to top tier goalies like Bob, Price, etc where we can't beat them conventionally.

Bozak on the other hand, I can see getting moved

JVR is not taking a cut to stay here. Possible that TyBo and Leo could be had for less but I do not see it being here.

 

[ShaneFalco]

If he's going to take less money on a long-term deal, guaranteed they'll ask for a NTC. If Tyler Bozak and Hyman can get NTC's, even partial....

There will be no dumping him if he declines

 

[gabeliscious]

His comps are all in the 5.25-6m x 6-7 year range. Stretch that to 8 and you're looking at 4.5-5.5m which is easily doable. Front load the deal for the first five years, pay a fat bonus July 1 of year 6 and if he's fallen of a cliff dump him with a pick to whoever is buying deals that help them reach the cap floor. The best use of the asset that is jvr is to have him potting 25-30 a season for the next 5 seasons, not trading him for a sack of magic beans.

i think there is no way we resign jvr. The term is scary no matter how you slice it. we would be better off paying him more for less term if we felt we needed to keep him. At some point we are going to have to give up luxuries to accommodate matthews/marner/nylander and still leave money to fix our defense.

hyman (2.25) matthews (10.5) marner (6.5)
marleau (6.25) nylander (6.5) kapanen (0.863)
leivo (1.5) kadri (4.5) brown ( 2.1)
martin (2.5) xxxxx (1) shosh (1.5)

rielly (5) xxxxxxx
gardiner (4.05) hainsey (3)
dermott (0.8633) zaitsev (4.5)
borgman (0.925)

andersen (5)
mcbackup (0.850)

leaves a lot of money to sign Doughty

 

[BlueForever75]

I can see all three of Bozak, JVR and Komarov not being back next season. There are cheaper replacements for two of the three (Komarov and JVR) and the money saved can be put together along with Bozak's cap hit to acquire a longer term solution at center between Matthews and Kadri.

Anyone of the centers below would be money well spent over the 3 outgoing:

High End (Long term Contract)
Paul Statsny
John Tavares

Second Tier (Long term Contract)
Michael Backlund
Lars Eller
Jonathan Marshesault

Short Contracts (1yr deal)
Joe Thornton
Vlaterri Flipulla


OR

Slide Kadri as your number 2 center behind Matthews, and sign a better 3rd line center behind Matthews and Kadri. Better defensively and can chip in offensively with speed.

Matt Stajan
Shawn Matthias
Antoine Vermette

OR

Simply bring back Bozak on a reduced rate.

I would go all in and use the dollars towards Tavares or Statsny.

 

[Gary Nylund]

i think there is no way we resign jvr. The term is scary no matter how you slice it. we would be better off paying him more for less term if we felt we needed to keep him. At some point we are going to have to give up luxuries to accommodate matthews/marner/nylander and still leave money to fix our defense.

hyman (2.25) matthews (10.5) marner (6.5)
marleau (6.25) nylander (6.5) kapanen (0.863)
leivo (1.5) kadri (4.5) brown ( 2.1)
martin (2.5) xxxxx (1) shosh (1.5)

rielly (5) xxxxxxx
gardiner (4.05) hainsey (3)
dermott (0.8633) zaitsev (4.5)
borgman (0.925)

andersen (5)
mcbackup (0.850)

leaves a lot of money to sign Doughty

Ha you got that right, I break into a cold sweat just thinking about it.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Why do you think a deal wasn't done in the off-season, if they were planning on keeping would have better to do the deal then no? A year younger plus one year away from UFA status ... the fact that this wasn't done suggests to me that it won't be done.

Doesn't matter when the deal is signed it wouldn't kick in until next season anyhow. Maybe Lou and co wanted every opportunity to make a hockey deal in the early part of this season? Hope a D-man shakes loose (Vatanen/JJ/Murray?) from a team who would need scoring help. There's no rush to make a deal, they have exclusive negotiating rights until just before FA begins.

 

[Menzinger]

Leivo SHOULD be worth a 2nd but not team is going to give that up without him getting more icetime. If I were to guess most teams offering a 4th or so.

If I were to guess Leafs keep him for extra depth, he plays just under the 39 game mark and leaves as a UFA come July.

There was a better article on it but found this:

Report: Leafs star willing to make huge sacrifice for team's future!

It will be a retirement contract and I'd bet a full NTC/NMC

There's been a lot of media reports along those lines, I do wonder if JVR is heading towards a lengthy contract extension.

Among the UFAs he's got the skillset that's hardest to replace - can generate 60 points even with limited usage.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I can see JVR getting an extension. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Will need to be cap friendly, and all, but the return on a trade will not equal his value, unless a contending team has a first-class prospect and a 1st coming the other way.

 

[ULF_55]

We don't just need core players, we have an entire roster to fill and a few years from now when we're paying big bucks to our core, we'll need cheap talent to fill out the roster if we hope to contend.

It makes sense to trade top 9 guys only because if they walk as UFA's, that would suck. And if they do, we'll need those Marlies to replace them.

Definitely, need depth players, but if only core players are the concern (some have mentioned van Riemsdyk and Bozak are not core) then most of the Marlies who'll never amount to anything will never be core players, and are of no concern.

 

[Anthrax442]

Leivo is not worth a 2nd in this world and in any other universe.

 

[Walshy7]

no thank you to JVR for anything more than 5 years, no thank you at all for me. But if we had to sign him 5 years is top of the year range. He has no intensity in a contract year imagine after he gets years of security.

 

[ULF_55]

Leivo is not worth a 2nd in this world and in any other universe.

I think it could be done ... however Babcock isn't doing anything to help the franchise out here ...

Find Out How Many NHL Draft Picks Make it to the NHL.

Beyond the first round.
This is where the NHL dream begins to fade in a hurry:

• From 1990 to 1999, about one-quarter of the players selected in the second round turned into NHL career players.

Those drafted in the third round and beyond are really up against it.

• From over 2,000 players selected in the third round and beyond during 1990s, just 261 made it as NHL career players. That's about 12 percent.