Proposal: Trade proposal thread - To sell or not to sell

[Milhouse40]

What exactly makes you think that signing Plekanec won't make Bergevin go out and sign Filppula?
Did signing Alzner prevent him from going after Streit and Hemsky?

Sorry buddy, but re-signing Plekanec makes no sense whatsoever. There is just no need for it. I am not arguing about what Bergevin will do, I have no idea what this bozo is going to do.
What I do want to see done with Plekanec though is a trade.

Please oh please stop giving me nightmares.
Just so we're clear here, i never EVER said that Bergevin should resign Plekanec this season.
I simply said that's a possibility considering how weak we are down the middle and How Bergevin do business.....

But then again, i mostly always hated how Bergevin does things and it wouldn't change if it does that.

 

[Bilgerat10]

Plekanec, without a doubt, has been the most serviceable, responsible center this season. In the three spot, he has done everything that can be expected of the defensive center when matched up against the opposition's top lines. However, he was a tad overpaid for that role--which is neither here nor there, now that he is in the last season of a "rich" contract. Canadiens would do well to cut bait and trade him to the highest bidder and get some assets for him. Not because he is overpaid and not because he is not doing his job, just because it is probable that he will be lost for nothing once free agency rolls around.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please oh please stop giving me nightmares.
Just so we're clear here, i never EVER said that Bergevin should resign Plekanec this season.
I simply said that's a possibility considering how weak we are down the middle and How Bergevin do business.....

But then again, i mostly always hated how Bergevin does things and i wouldn't change if it does that.

You know what, If Tavares does not sign with the Habs (likely) and we want to have another tank year next year, signing Pleky for one year would be ok with me. Gives us time to allow Poehling and Evans to develop as potential centers for us.

 

[417]

Lol, not this again...

Offense is being created when Plekanec is on the ice!

GF 5on5:

Plekanec 21

Drouin 18

Galchenyuk 14!

Just stop man...

Yes, we have to trade him but your evaluation of him is terrible. It's like you're talking about Torrey Mitchell.

Scoring chances for when on the ice:

Pacioretty 328
Gallagher 314
Plekanec 307
Drouin 271
Galchenyuk 260

Plekanec has played the majority of the year with our top goal scorer, Brendan Gallagher...furthermore, 80% of Plekanec's time spent on the ice is at 5 on 5.

Where the hell else do you think his production (18pts) is going to come from? the PK??

My evaluation of him is not terrible, I recognize what he can do for the Habs, I recognize his value defensively. I am not challenging that, but I don't care what 5 on 5 stats you produce, he is USELESS offensively at ES. He needs copious amounts of ice time @ 5 on 5 to get points for himself or his teamates.

Just to show you how meaningless your stat is...the last 3 games Plekanec has 2 points (2 assists).

They've both come on assists coming off empty net goals from Pacioretty & Gallagher respectively, those 2 assists are counted as ESP, but are they really?

I mean, first of all, there's no goalie in the opposing net...secondly, Plekanec is ALWAYS on the ice in those circumstances...thirdly, they're empty net points man.

I've gone back and looked at Plekanec's game logs, and i'm not done, but i've counted up until now 5 empty net assists that figure amongst his 18 ES points.

In other words, Tomas Plekanec has 13 "true" ES points, despite playing more than a FULL games worth (60 mins games) at ES compared to say Drouin or Galchenyuk.

I mean...307 scoring chances FOR with Plekanec on the ice? Yeessshh, i'd love to see where you go this stat and how it's interpreted, I mean, just because a player is on the ice when a scoring chance event happens, does not necessarily mean he was instrumental in creating that scoring chance for.

The numbers you provided are extremely ambiguous to say the least. So perhaps before you coming huffing and puffing your chest about Plekanec, come with something more concrete.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Lol, not this again...

Offense is being created when Plekanec is on the ice!

GF 5on5:

Plekanec 21

Drouin 18

Galchenyuk 14!

Just stop man...

Yes, we have to trade him but your evaluation of him is terrible. It's like you're talking about Torrey Mitchell.

Scoring chances for when on the ice:

Pacioretty 328
Gallagher 314
Plekanec 307
Drouin 271
Galchenyuk 260

Plekanec isn't really creating much though. Gallagher is. Its why there's a discrepancy between his individual stats and his on-ice stats. Still a great defensive player though.

 

[417]

As you said, Plekanec was/is used 16 minutes only because our top 2 centers (mostly our 1st line center) can't play any kind of defensive games. Desharnais/Drouin/Galchenyuk all forced coaches to play Plekanec more, if we had a center able to play a 200 foot game, he would play a lot less.

As for the faceoffs...
Plekanec is 57,2% in defensive zone faceoff and he took 395 of them
Danault is 54,9% in defensive zone faceoff and he took 213 of them....which is good.
Shaw only 47.2% in defensive zone faceoff and he took only 36 of them.

Maybe Danault can take 100 more.....still 300 other faceoff to take care off.


As for the Plekanec, it's 2:19 per game on the first unit that you need to replace. Don't just throw a bunch of name, replacing by comittee doesn't really work.....And Andrew Shaw played like 5:00 on the PK this season, he's not good on it and not a defensive player.

The Habs PK is 24th in PK%....who the hell cares???

 

[Kriss E]

Please oh please stop giving me nightmares.
Just so we're clear here, i never EVER said that Bergevin should resign Plekanec this season.
I simply said that's a possibility considering how weak we are down the middle and How Bergevin do business.....

But then again, i mostly always hated how Bergevin does things and it wouldn't change if it does that.

I have learned to never underestimate the stupidity of this GM.

 

[Miller Time]

Plekanec, without a doubt, has been the most serviceable, responsible center this season. In the three spot, he has done everything that can be expected of the defensive center when matched up against the opposition's top lines. However, he was a tad overpaid for that role--which is neither here nor there, now that he is in the last season of a "rich" contract. Canadiens would do well to cut bait and trade him to the highest bidder and get some assets for him. Not because he is overpaid and not because he is not doing his job, just because it is probable that he will be lost for nothing once free agency rolls around.

agree... and as others have pointed out, would actually be a very good target on a 1-2year team friendly cap hit (~3M) for next season if he wants to keep his home/family life settled in Montreal.

Best case scenario, we get assets for him at the deadline this year AND next... that's the kind of asset management we need to see!

 

[slybel]

one month before the Deadline.... you think he's moving way before or waiting?

 

[Simarino]

If we had a good GM the turn around come be done very quickly:

Price vs Allen Thomas and Dunn

Pax and Byron vs Montour Steel

Unload: Alzner, retain 1.5 if you have to

Trade Pleck for 2nd

Trade Schlemko for a 4th

You have 3 good young center in the pipeline with Thomas,Steel and Poehling. The dcore is young and very mobile with the addition of Dunn Montour. You have a bunch of picks for the upcoming draft and a tone of money to spend on Tavares this summer if he hits the ufa market.

 

[WinterLion]

one month before the Deadline.... you think he's moving way before or waiting?

He might make a "hockey move" before, but Pleks will be at the deadline and any other roster player for picks type of deal.

 

[417]

agree... and as others have pointed out, would actually be a very good target on a 1-2year team friendly cap hit (~3M) for next season if he wants to keep his home/family life settled in Montreal.

Best case scenario, we get assets for him at the deadline this year AND next... that's the kind of asset management we need to see!

Not being facetious here, honest question...

For what purpose should the Habs bring him back at 3M? Of course, beyond the sentimental reasons you stated above? What good could come out of that for the Habs?

Why do they need another 3rd/4th line center making 3M given the rest of their needs?

 

[Miller Time]

Not being facetious here, honest question...

For what purpose should the Habs bring him back at 3M? Of course, beyond the sentimental reasons you stated above? What good could come out of that for the Habs?

Why do they need another 3rd/4th line center making 3M given the rest of their needs?

- Still very effective in a 3rd line C role (yes, his offensive output is wanting, but he's above the curve defensively)
- He's got an impeccable record of professionalism and "lead-by-example" work ethic that is a valuable asset to have in a year that, if we have any sense, will be about integrating many younger players into the lineup
- there's very little reason for us to be a cap spending team next year, and the cap should go up. 3M for a veteran 3rd line C playing 16-18min/night is well within reasonable range

i don't know that i stated any sentimental reason for us to keep him, the allure of keeping his family rooted is the only reason he'd even consider coming back... he'll get 2-3M$ offers from other teams, and there are much better situations for a player near the end of their career to go to. If he's focused on a shot at a cup, we've got no chance to sign him as he'll find a contender that will want him.

 

[Belial]

You know what, If Tavares does not sign with the Habs (likely) and we want to have another tank year next year, signing Pleky for one year would be ok with me. Gives us time to allow Poehling and Evans to develop as potential centers for us.

Why would you sign arguably your best defensive player if you want to tank?

This team would do a lot worse without Plekanec eating all those tough minutes night after night without bleeding goals against.

People just don't realize his utility.

Plekanec has played the majority of the year with our top goal scorer, Brendan Gallagher...furthermore, 80% of Plekanec's time spent on the ice is at 5 on 5.

Where the hell else do you think his production (18pts) is going to come from? the PK??

My evaluation of him is not terrible, I recognize what he can do for the Habs, I recognize his value defensively. I am not challenging that, but I don't care what 5 on 5 stats you produce, he is USELESS offensively at ES. He needs copious amounts of ice time @ 5 on 5 to get points for himself or his teamates.

Just to show you how meaningless your stat is...the last 3 games Plekanec has 2 points (2 assists).

They've both come on assists coming off empty net goals from Pacioretty & Gallagher respectively, those 2 assists are counted as ESP, but are they really?

I mean, first of all, there's no goalie in the opposing net...secondly, Plekanec is ALWAYS on the ice in those circumstances...thirdly, they're empty net points man.

I've gone back and looked at Plekanec's game logs, and i'm not done, but i've counted up until now 5 empty net assists that figure amongst his 18 ES points.

In other words, Tomas Plekanec has 13 "true" ES points, despite playing more than a FULL games worth (60 mins games) at ES compared to say Drouin or Galchenyuk.

I mean...307 scoring chances FOR with Plekanec on the ice? Yeessshh, i'd love to see where you go this stat and how it's interpreted, I mean, just because a player is on the ice when a scoring chance event happens, does not necessarily mean he was instrumental in creating that scoring chance for.

The numbers you provided are extremely ambiguous to say the least. So perhaps before you coming huffing and puffing your chest about Plekanec, come with something more concrete.

Once again, offense is being generated when Plekanec is on the ice! I could care less if you think he's useless, the stats are out there.

The team is not getting pinned in their own zone and defends the whole night when his line is on the ice. Do you understand that? Because that's what you said happens when he's out there.

What more concrete stats do you want?

When he's on the ice the team is getting more scoring chances than it's allowing. Does that sound like a strictly defensive line?

Plekanec isn't really creating much though. Gallagher is. Its why there's a discrepancy between his individual stats and his on-ice stats. Still a great defensive player though.

So Gallagher is creating everything on his own? What a player!

Plekanec's 7 primary assists have nothing to do with Gallagher goals right?

Only Danault has more primary assists with 8...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Not being facetious here, honest question...

For what purpose should the Habs bring him back at 3M? Of course, beyond the sentimental reasons you stated above? What good could come out of that for the Habs?

Why do they need another 3rd/4th line center making 3M given the rest of their needs?

At best, he's a good tough minutes center that helps bolster depth. At worst, he's a veteran with good work ethic to have as a teacher/placeholder on the roster.

I see the logic in re-signing Plekanec. But they should give him a shot at a cup too. Because it'll be a while before Montreal gets a chance to actually compete for one.

 

[417]

- Still very effective in a 3rd line C role (yes, his offensive output is wanting, but he's above the curve defensively)

Fair point - but wouldn't you agree that the Habs could benefit from employing another player, in a similar role, who may sacrifice a bit defensively, but provide much more offensively?

- He's got an impeccable record of professionalism and "lead-by-example" work ethic that is a valuable asset to have in a year that, if we have any sense, will be about integrating many younger players into the lineup

Even at his advanced age and him being well past his prime, he STILL holds an important/crucial role in the coaches eyes (even in a season that's lost mind you). How can we go about integrating many young players into the lineup, when a fading veteran still holds such an important role in the eyes of the coaches?

We're seeing it right now with DLR, they could be trying to use him in a similar role, hell what is there to lose...but are they?

Nope...what makes you think it would be any different next year? Do you think Jake Evans is going to get a legit shot with Plekanec on board? Or DLR? or McCarron? or even Poehling for example? Nope...it won't happen as long as Plekanec is there. He's going to continue to get the bulk of the icetime at even strength against top lines, he's going to continue to get 1st shift PK as well.

This doesn't benefit the team in any way as we've seen this year...the only person this benefits is Plekanec.

- there's very little reason for us to be a cap spending team next year, and the cap should go up. 3M for a veteran 3rd line C playing 16-18min/night is well within reasonable range

Once again...respectfully, I do not understand why you would want to see a player who provides next to nothing offensively for 16-18 mins a game. What icetime does that leave for any other centers?

Imagine a crazy scenario where the Habs re-sign Plekanec and manage to sign John Tavares...can you imagine John Tavares playing 15 mins a game because CJ wants to make sure he's using Plekanec against top lines every night??

i don't know that i stated any sentimental reason for us to keep him, the allure of keeping his family rooted is the only reason he'd even consider coming back... he'll get 2-3M$ offers from other teams, and there are much better situations for a player near the end of their career to go to. If he's focused on a shot at a cup, we've got no chance to sign him as he'll find a contender that will want him.

He'll go to a better team than the Habs, play 10-12 mins a game, mostly on the PK and some spot duty during defensive zone faceoffs.

But that will NOT happen in Montreal.

 

[Milhouse40]

Not being facetious here, honest question...

For what purpose should the Habs bring him back at 3M? Of course, beyond the sentimental reasons you stated above? What good could come out of that for the Habs?

Why do they need another 3rd/4th line center making 3M given the rest of their needs?

I tried to explain it to you.
(At first, let me make this clear, you still trade him at the deadline)

We don't need another 3rd/4th line center......we need 2 and have 0 for now.
Plain and simple.

Plekanec or not, the next 3rd line center will cost $3M or more and in today's NHL where more team play top 9 and not top 6 anymore (Unless you got a good 200 feet prospect), it's the price to get something decent. There's better options than Plekanec in the UFA, but not much and it's unlikely they would want to come here.

This is also why i posted something around New Jersey and their need for a player like Shaw....if we could get that McLoed kid out of NJ, he could slot in that 3rd line role quite easily and then say bye bye for good to Plekanec.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Why would you sign arguably your best defensive player if you want to tank?

This team would do a lot worse without Plekanec eating all those tough minutes night after night without bleeding goals against.

People just don't realize his utility.

I understand his value and I think we can easily get a 2nd for him when others say it's a 4th. But we would not be going anywhere again next year with Pleky. I would have no problem having him as our 3rd center if we had two legit top 2 centers above him. If we are going through another youth movement and off year next year, I would also be ok with Pleky as a depth center to bridge the gap until Poehling is ready and we find another piece.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Why would you sign arguably your best defensive player if you want to tank?

This team would do a lot worse without Plekanec eating all those tough minutes night after night without bleeding goals against.

People just don't realize his utility.



Once again, offense is being generated when Plekanec is on the ice! I could care less if you think he's useless, the stats are out there.

The team is not getting pinned in their own zone and defends the whole night when his line is on the ice. Do you understand that? Because that's what you said happens when he's out there.

What more concrete stats do you want?

When he's on the ice the team is getting more scoring chances than it's allowing. Does that sound like a strictly defensive line?


So Gallagher is creating everything on his own? What a player!

Plekanec's 7 primary assists have nothing to do with Gallagher goals right?

Only Danault has more primary assists with 8...

First of all, Primary Assists =/= creating scoring chances. 2nd of all, Gallagher has been one of the best players at creating scoring chances for the last 3 seasons. He's very, very good at it. Plekanec's ixGF/60 is something like 11th on the team and his scoring chances created 10th. He's a fine, useful player, but he's a drag offensively at this point in his career.

 

[417]

Once again, offense is being generated when Plekanec is on the ice! I could care less if you think he's useless, the stats are out there.

The team is not getting pinned in their own zone and defends the whole night when his line is on the ice. Do you understand that? Because that's what you said happens when he's out there.

What more concrete stats do you want?

When he's on the ice the team is getting more scoring chances than it's allowing. Does that sound like a strictly defensive line?

The stats you provided are extremely ambiguous...

307 scoring chances FOR with Plekanec on the ice???? lol

Of those 307 scoring chances, don't tell me that Plekanec was on the ice for them, tell me what role he played in those scoring chances??? For example, last game vs the Avs, Lehkonen & Gallagher both had quite a few chances, I can assure you that Plekanec had absolutely nothing to do with generating those chances offensively.

Him being on the ice during those events, does NOT mean he was integral in creating them.

Again, you can point to his 18ES points...

I'll just tell you that the majority of his icetime IS at ES, and has been spent with our best goal scorer (Gallagher)...and of those 18ES points, 5 of them were on EN goals, so he's actually responsible for 13 "true" ES points.

And he's done that while playing a FULL game more at ES then Galchenyuk or Drouin have.

Stats without context, mean very little.

 

[417]

At best, he's a good tough minutes center that helps bolster depth. At worst, he's a veteran with good work ethic to have as a teacher/placeholder on the roster.

I see the logic in re-signing Plekanec. But they should give him a shot at a cup too. Because it'll be a while before Montreal gets a chance to actually compete for one.

If they want to bring back Plekanec next year...it should be on a 1yr, 1.5M deal, for him to play 8-10 mins on the 4th line and PK.

Anything beyond that is where I sign off

 

[417]

I tried to explain it to you.
(At first, let me make this clear, you still trade him at the deadline)

We don't need another 3rd/4th line center......we need 2 and have 0 for now.
Plain and simple.

Plekanec or not, the next 3rd line center will cost $3M or more and in today's NHL where more team play top 9 and not top 6 anymore (Unless you got a good 200 feet prospect), it's the price to get something decent. There's better options than Plekanec in the UFA, but not much and it's unlikely they would want to come here.

This is also why i posted something around New Jersey and their need for a player like Shaw....if we could get that McLoed kid out of NJ, he could slot in that 3rd line role quite easily and then say bye bye for good to Plekanec.

Not much???

The Habs don't even have to go outside to find a better 3rd line center...they have one, his name is Philip Danault!

Again, I argued the same thing years ago with Lars Eller, we have someone in-house. Furthermore, there are quite a few better options in free agency, Michael Backlund, Lars Eller, Tyler Bozak just off the top of my head.

 

[Captain Mountain]

If they want to bring back Plekanec next year...it should be on a 1yr, 1.5M deal, for him to play 8-10 mins on the 4th line and PK.

Anything beyond that is where I sign off

Who else are they going to play at center? They won't play Galchenyuk there. Drouin has never been strong enough defensively. Danault may develop his defensive game further, but he's one guy. McCarron is trending backwards. DLR has never really looked like more than a 13th forward in the NHL and his defensive game is overrated. Poehling and Evans aren't NHL ready yet.

Absent an unforeseen trade or a Tavares (in which case Montreal probably can't afford Plekanec), why force him to play limited minutes and competition if he can handle more?

 

[yianik]

Not saying we should or should not bring Pleks back as a UFA signing.

Just want to point out that its fine thinking if you are " tanking" you might as well just gut everything and hit bottom. Problem is you will also have a bunch of young kids getting shellacked out there and even with the fans knowing whats going on they will probably boo the team off the ice. This is a very negative environment and damaging to development.

You need vets even with that kind of team to bare the brunt of the negativity, the media, and also teach the young guys good habits and good ways of playing. Otherwise you really risk ruining the youngsters and the future for them and us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Plekanec isn't really creating much though. Gallagher is. Its why there's a discrepancy between his individual stats and his on-ice stats. Still a great defensive player though.

Offensively, Pleky has not been creating much for a few seasons now. I am curious to see what he can do on a team with more depth up front and at center though. I think he can be a valuable piece in a playoff run