Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread - The We're not done quite yet Edition

[shawdowmaker]

Plekanec and Gilbert are both UFAs too...if they walk at the end of the year Carolina will have gotten nothing more than Fucale as a return for Staal (and given up their 3rd in the process)? Just insanely bad.

I agree it make no sense! I just want the habs to acquire a legitementt top 6 player with experience.

 

[Takeru]

I guess you forgot about the Gomez trade.

Please don't compare JVR to Scott Gomez. And even if Juulsen was the next coming of McDonagh, how long do you think it would take him to have an impact on our team? How else should we improve our offense in the short term?

That still doesn't make him more valuable in my opinion... And Toronto retained salary in the Kessel deal, as well as trading away a 2nd round pick, Erixon and Biggs.

I like JVR, but he's not worth that much.

Fair enough, but a lower offer probably doesn't get you JVR. What other opportunities like this will come up to dramatically improve our offense without sacrificing key roster pieces or screw our salary cap?

No deal (if up to me... already a huge fan of Juulsen).

As much as I'd like JVR in our top 6...I don't want to trade Juulsen to Toronto and also help them get a top 3 pick. Juulsen has top 2-3 potential...he's a keeper, imo.

Emelin (NTC):
NTC till January 2016...from what I know.
(and may only have 8-10 teams on his list he can be traded to??).

P.S.:
and for that much...T.O. would have to include a 2nd rnd pick, imo.
We don't have to do any favors to Toronto.

I'll ask you the same questions as the other two: When do you expect Juulsen to be ready to make a difference on this team? How else are we going to improve our offense short term?

 

[Adriatic]

Not in playoffs. Unless your definition of much differ from mine and the dictionary.

Backes never had luxury of playing against mickey mouse playoff teams out there in the west.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

We're not a good trade partner with the leafs, this would come back and bite us. I like JVR but not that much.

Even if Juulsen became a top four defenseman, we're still getting a 30 goal scorer out of this trade. The only way it comes back to bite us is if JVR completely bombs. And as Takeru outlined. By the time Juulsen develops enough to have an impact - assuming he actually does - Price won't be putting on performances that nearly shatter records. Sometimes, it's worth paying a steep price just to take a big step forward.

 

[LaP]

I guess you forgot about the Gomez trade.

Gomez was 30. JVR is 26. Also McDo + Higgins > Juulsen + late 1st rounder

Who cares about the b prospect we have lot of those.

Let's not forget that back then Higgins was a 25 years old 3 times in a row 20 goals scorer. He had a bad year but it was only one year and at this age it's not a big concern.

I think people undervalue the value of Higgins back then.

 

[Lebowski]

Fair enough, but a lower offer probably doesn't get you JVR. What other opportunities like this will come up to dramatically improve our offense without sacrificing key roster pieces or screw our salary cap?

We have to remember here that the real person doing the haggling in a trade scenario aren't Leafs fans... And Bergevin may not be as desperate as some Habs fans to find that additional top 6 winger.

No one thought Kessel would go for that little at first either.

Actually, I would say it's a little less.

Kapanen = Juulsen
1st = 1st
Harrington > Andrighetto/2nd
Spaling =/< Emelin/Desharnais

We're also paying for the fact JVR is signed to a ridiculously low contract. While a bit steep, I think it's worth consideration, though I would look at other options first. Vrbata comes to mind if Vancouver tanks.

Kessel had 15% salary retained. Essentially making him a 6.8M cap-hit player. That's even more of a bargain than JVR's contract.

The first round pick given by the Pens is conditional on them making the playoffs next season. If they miss, they give their 2017 1st rounder to Toronto and get a 2017 2nd rounder back from Toronto. If they miss again, they only give a 2017 2nd rounder and receive no pick in return from Toronto.

They also sent Erixon and Biggs Pittsburgh's way.

And Kessel will still always be twice the player JVR will ever be. This is giving up way too much for the guy, and I'm fairly confident when I say I don't expect anyone to pay nearly that much to get him in real life.

 

[Takeru]

We have to remember here that the real person doing the haggling in a trade scenario aren't Leafs fans... And Bergevin may not be as desperate as some Habs fans to find that additional top 6 winger.

No one thought Kessel would go for that little at first either.

I think we're all aware here that no one here has any impact on actual trades, and words or demands from a fan base don't necessarily reflect their management's way of thinking. What is merely being stated is the top price some of us would pay to acquire a certain player. Of course it comes from a pretend negociation, but as we don't have access to how the GMs involved value the players in question, that's about as close as we can get.

Without being desperate, Bergevin will need to actually pay the high price at some point to bring that extra scoring. He can't wait for a Petry-like deal to happen, you don't see these opportunities every year. And while no trade needs to happen right now, it remains to be seen if Desharnais, Kassian or Semin can actually do the job as top 6 wingers. If not, a trade will definitely have to be considered.

 

[NewHabsEra*]

Edmonton Montreal

To Montreal: Leon Draisaitl

To Edmondon: Tomas Plekanec Nikita Scherbak Jared Tinordi

 

[Takeru]

To Montreal: Leon Draisaitl

To Edmondon: Tomas Plekanec Nikita Scherbak Jared Tinordi

This belongs in the trade thread. Also EDM probably isn't that interested in Plekanec, and most people around here will tell you this is too much anyways. But getting Draisaitl would be nice.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Acquire Huberdeau or Drouin.

 

[GREMLIN]

Acquire Huberdeau or Drouin.

I think Drouin is going to bust, there I said it.

 

[Fazkovsky]

To Montreal: Leon Draisaitl

To Edmondon: Tomas Plekanec Nikita Scherbak Jared Tinordi

a big no from me. Maybe if you added Yak, even that it would be a useless trade.

 

[Mr. Hab]

I'll ask you the same questions as the other two: When do you expect Juulsen to be ready to make a difference on this team? How else are we going to improve our offense short term?

Fair enough, but...that's still giving too much...it's Juulsen AND a 1st + some more. I'd rather not deal with Toronto (that's another reason I wouldn't do this deal). Why help Toronto with Juulsen+1st + more chances of getting a top 3 pick? Toronto helped Boston sveral years ago with several ridiculous trades... I don't want to do the same.

Semin (1.1mil), Kassian (cheap RFA) + 5th rnd pick + Fleischmann (PTO/tryout)...maybe Semin or Kassian can score as many goals as JVR this season...maybe more? (weak Toronto team,etc). Emphasis on maybe for those who already have smoke coming out of their ears!!

UFA 2016:
go for some players without giving up players/picks.
(or wait for that good/smart trade - March trade deadline or before - that won't steal most of our star prospects and 1st+2nd rnd picks,etc...Bergevin can pull it off, imo, ex: Vanek was a good trade/try even though Vanek was a huge zero in playoffs... I would have done that deal,etc).

 

[Takeru]

Fair enough, but...that's still giving too much...it's Juulsen AND a 1st + some more. I'd rather not deal with Toronto (that's another reason I wouldn't do this deal). Why help Toronto with Juulsen+1st + more chances of getting a top 3 pick? Toronto helped Boston sveral years ago with several ridiculous trades... I don't want to do the same.

Semin (1.1mil), Kassian (cheap RFA) + 5th rnd pick + Fleischmann (PTO/tryout)...maybe Semin or Kassian can score as many goals as JVR this season...maybe more? (weak Toronto team,etc). Emphasis on maybe for those who already have smoke coming out of their ears!!

UFA 2016:
go for some players without giving up players/picks.
(or wait for that good/smart trade - March trade deadline or before - that won't steal most of our star prospects and 1st+2nd rnd picks,etc...Bergevin can pull it off, imo, ex: Vanek was a good trade/try even though Vanek was a huge zero in playoffs... I would have done that deal,etc).

Toronto made a bad move several years ago because they overestimated where they stood. Do you honestly believe we're more of a lottery team rather than a contender? If not, and I hope that's your answer, then I wouldn't worry too much about the pick we'd be giving.

As for the guys you named on this team, all of them are long shots at solving our offensive woes (need I remind you that Fleischmann is on a tryout, so expecting him to fix our offense is... )
Also not sure why you're comparing their potential production to JVR's production on Toronto, the point would be to have his production as an addition on OUR team, so even if they did score as many as him, all the better for us, and if they don't, well at least we'd have a sure shot.

Sure, we can hope to pick a UFA that will be a temporary fix, but the idea is to look for a longer term solution. And yes that means paying more, but if we can avoid throwing picks left and right in the next few years thanks to it, it might be worth it.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Kessel had 15% salary retained. Essentially making him a 6.8M cap-hit player. That's even more of a bargain than JVR's contract.

The first round pick given by the Pens is conditional on them making the playoffs next season. If they miss, they give their 2017 1st rounder to Toronto and get a 2017 2nd rounder back from Toronto. If they miss again, they only give a 2017 2nd rounder and receive no pick in return from Toronto.

They also sent Erixon and Biggs Pittsburgh's way.

And Kessel will still always be twice the player JVR will ever be. This is giving up way too much for the guy, and I'm fairly confident when I say I don't expect anyone to pay nearly that much to get him in real life.

Perhaps not, which only works in our favor. That said, you also have to factor Kessel had a NTC and could essentially dictate where he wanted to go. I also get the impression Toronto simply wanted him gone and undersold him just to get a deal done.

 

[Mr. Hab]

Toronto made a bad move several years ago because they overestimated where they stood. Do you honestly believe we're more of a lottery team rather than a contender? If not, and I hope that's your answer, then I wouldn't worry too much about the pick we'd be giving.

As for the guys you named on this team, all of them are long shots at solving our offensive woes (need I remind you that Fleischmann is on a tryout, so expecting him to fix our offense is... )
Also not sure why you're comparing their potential production to JVR's production on Toronto, the point would be to have his production as an addition on OUR team, so even if they did score as many as him, all the better for us, and if they don't, well at least we'd have a sure shot.

Sure, we can hope to pick a UFA that will be a temporary fix, but the idea is to look for a longer term solution. And yes that means paying more, but if we can avoid throwing picks left and right in the next few years thanks to it, it might be worth it.

I definitely know we're more of a contender VS a lottery team! (cheers!). I've been waiting for a CUP since 1993!! I was just using Toronto because they made very bad trades (and helped Boston) and I don't want to make these bad trades and help Toronto, contender or not (ex: I hope McDonagh will be our last bad trade for decades!!).

Imo, Bergevin could pull off some good trades without giving a Juulsen or a Scherbak (ex: Jeff Petry + he was signed to several yrs, and...Vanek, yes Vanek was useless in playoffs but that trade was worth the try at such a cheap price ; and Weise is not JVR but he's still a good playoff warrior and we got him for free...soft-as-butter-Diaz should never be on a CUP contender! Bergevin will find a JVR while keeping our Juulsen...we might have to give up a 1st, but we shall wait and see what Bergevin can get...).

Semin (1.1mil), Kassian (cheap RFA), Fleischmann (PTO/tryout ; dirt cheap if signed): maybe I'm being too positive, but I believe that 2 out of these 3 can help our top 6-9, and for free or close to free!! IF it works out (IF)...Bergevin will look like a genius!! You don't have to overpay to have a sexy top 9 (especially when UFAs want to come to Mtl). Also, I would have taken Glencross as a PTO/tryout (to strengthen our LEFT side), but Toronto beat us to it.

UFA 2016:
E.Staal or Kopitar won't be short-term solutions...they will be long-term (4-5yrs+). July 1st (2016) is not that far away since time flies...we really should try to pick up a star/superstar player (ex: Eric Staal or Anze Kopitar and a top 3-4 playoff warrior dman to help PK Subban, Petry, and Price in playoffs, etc). This 2016 UFA crops could be very important for our CUP run...I really hope most of them will be UFA and really hope we have a shot at 1-2 of them. I like JVR, but...we need at least ONE HUGE LEADER for our forward core. PK Subban and Price are our HUGE DEFENSIVE LEADERS. But, for our top 6...we don't have a Nieuwendyk, Gilmour, Kirk Muller, E.Staal for our top 6...this kind of leadership is very important (imo) for a CUP RUN. I really hope/think the 2016 UFA could really help us...1 or 2 BIG ufa stars may really want to join our Habs since we're going for it VERY SOON (and all this without giving up a Juulsen! win-win!!).

I'm a bit greedy...!! I want to win the CUP while keeping most of our star prospects and our 1st+2nd rnd picks, so we can be very good for a long time!! (it's not impossible! for now, I'm going to say that this is what Bergevin is trying to do...go all the way or as far as possible every year while trying to keep most of our star prospects). And the last thing I want...a major setback (one or two bad trades and we don't win a CUP could really screw us up and set us back awhile...look at what Boston did after winning a CUP...make all the wrong decisions! Seguin and Hamilton should still be there...). I'm hoping Bergevin is trying to build a dynasty (Chicago) or mini-dynasty (L.A.)...not just a quickie/flash-in-the-pan (Boston). Obviously I'd take a CUP but wouldn't mind winning a CUP and for success to continue, not just vanish quickly the year after.
I compared JVR's projected production (2016 season) to Semin/Kassian/Fleisch(PTO)...I made a mistake since JVR would be added to our lineup and his production would be ''in addition'' to Semin/Kassian/Fleisch(PTO). I think I was just trying to say we can find a cheaper solution (trade where we can keep Juulsen and get JVR production or similar production from another player that won't cost as much ; and there's always...UFA 2016!!). For example...if we can get Wayne Simmonds without giving Juulsen or Scherbak...I'd be a happy Hab fan!! but why give up star prospects when we can wait a bit and go for it for ufa 2016...we can dump salaries after January 2016...DD, Emelin,etc.

Cheers!

Go Habs Go!! (going for the CUP...now/2016 season? or 2017? 2018? 2019?).




p.s.: if Dustin Byfuglien is also a UFA in 2016...I'd love to get him as a forward/dman (if price is right)...I still can't forget how he helped Chicago win their first CUP by dominating Chris Pronger. We need this kind of HUGE warrior for playoffs.

 

[Takeru]

I definitely know we're more of a contender VS a lottery team! (cheers!). I've been waiting for a CUP since 1993!! I was just using Toronto because they made very bad trades (and helped Boston) and I don't want to make these bad trades and help Toronto, contender or not (ex: I hope McDonagh will be our last bad trade for decades!!).

Imo, Bergevin could pull off some good trades without giving a Juulsen or a Scherbak (ex: Jeff Petry + he was signed to several yrs, and...Vanek, yes Vanek was useless in playoffs but that trade was worth the try at such a cheap price ; and Weise is not JVR but he's still a good playoff warrior and we got him for free...soft-as-butter-Diaz should never be on a CUP contender! Bergevin will find a JVR while keeping our Juulsen...we might have to give up a 1st, but we shall wait and see what Bergevin can get...).

Semin (1.1mil), Kassian (cheap RFA), Fleischmann (PTO/tryout ; dirt cheap if signed): maybe I'm being too positive, but I believe that 2 out of these 3 can help our top 6-9, and for free or close to free!! IF it works out (IF)...Bergevin will look like a genius!! You don't have to overpay to have a sexy top 9 (especially when UFAs want to come to Mtl). Also, I would have taken Glencross as a PTO/tryout (to strengthen our LEFT side), but Toronto beat us to it.

UFA 2016:
E.Staal or Kopitar won't be short-term solutions...they will be long-term (4-5yrs+). July 1st (2016) is not that far away since time flies...we really should try to pick up a star/superstar player (ex: Eric Staal or Anze Kopitar and a top 3-4 playoff warrior dman to help PK Subban, Petry, and Price in playoffs, etc). This 2016 UFA crops could be very important for our CUP run...I really hope most of them will be UFA and really hope we have a shot at 1-2 of them. I like JVR, but...we need at least ONE HUGE LEADER for our forward core. PK Subban and Price are our HUGE DEFENSIVE LEADERS. But, for our top 6...we don't have a Nieuwendyk, Gilmour, Kirk Muller, E.Staal for our top 6...this kind of leadership is very important (imo) for a CUP RUN. I really hope/think the 2016 UFA could really help us...1 or 2 BIG ufa stars may really want to join our Habs since we're going for it VERY SOON (and all this without giving up a Juulsen! win-win!!).

I'm a bit greedy...!! I want to win the CUP while keeping most of our star prospects and our 1st+2nd rnd picks, so we can be very good for a long time!! (it's not impossible! for now, I'm going to say that this is what Bergevin is trying to do...go all the way or as far as possible every year while trying to keep most of our star prospects). And the last thing I want...a major setback (one or two bad trades and we don't win a CUP could really screw us up and set us back awhile...look at what Boston did after winning a CUP...make all the wrong decisions! Seguin and Hamilton should still be there...). I'm hoping Bergevin is trying to build a dynasty (Chicago) or mini-dynasty (L.A.)...not just a quickie/flash-in-the-pan (Boston). Obviously I'd take a CUP but wouldn't mind winning a CUP and for success to continue, not just vanish quickly the year after.
I compared JVR's projected production (2016 season) to Semin/Kassian/Fleisch(PTO)...I made a mistake since JVR would be added to our lineup and his production would be ''in addition'' to Semin/Kassian/Fleisch(PTO). I think I was just trying to say we can find a cheaper solution (trade where we can keep Juulsen and get JVR production or similar production from another player that won't cost as much ; and there's always...UFA 2016!!). For example...if we can get Wayne Simmonds without giving Juulsen or Scherbak...I'd be a happy Hab fan!! but why give up star prospects when we can wait a bit and go for it for ufa 2016...we can dump salaries after January 2016...DD, Emelin,etc.

Cheers!

Go Habs Go!! (going for the CUP...now/2016 season? or 2017? 2018? 2019?).




p.s.: if Dustin Byfuglien is also a UFA in 2016...I'd love to get him as a forward/dman (if price is right)...I still can't forget how he helped Chicago win their first CUP by dominating Chris Pronger. We need this kind of HUGE warrior for playoffs.

Well I think we agree to disagree on JVR.

Also, I didn't mean to sound pessimistic, I do hope as well that all our pick ups will fulfill the expectations, but I do think that shouldn't stop us from looking for improvement.

I noticed you seem to be banking a lot on UFAs, which I admit has worked to our advantage in the past. However, you can't expect that most of them will still be available come deadline, or even by July 1st, depending on what you had in mind. And you have to consider the amount of money we'll have to give to whoever we end up choosing. Bear with me for bringing him up again, but the fact that JVR is on such a cheap contract is a blessing for a cap ceiling team like us. The UFAs you mentionned would likely cost about twice as much, probably more for Kopitar. That means less flexibility to improve down the road.

At this point we can't afford not going for the cup in any of the next three seasons, to answer your final question.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Les #leafs échangent michael grabner aux islanders en retour de taylor beck, matt finn, tom wilson, carter verhaeghe et christopher gibson

Let the trade proposals for all our scraps for a mediocre player begin!

 

[axman88]

Les #leafs échangent michael grabner aux islanders en retour de taylor beck, matt finn, tom wilson, carter verhaeghe et christopher gibson

Let the trade proposals for all our scraps for a mediocre player begin!

Desharnais, Emelin, Gilbert for Kessel

 

[Sterling Archer]

I'm going to go with:


Jake Evans
Ryan Johnston
Matt Bradley
Maxim Trunev
Joel Hanley

for


Matt Read

 

[hototogisu]

Whoa now, didn't you follow the rookie tourney? Ryan Johnston is a stud! And you're going to throw him away?

 

[Soltantgris]

I suspect MB will trade some assets before season opening, mostly waiver eligible players for younger project or picks. MB is not perfect, but dont waste asset. You guys can confirm if all these players are waiver stuff ?

Tinordi
Thomas
Ghetto
Bournival
Holloway
Dumont
Barberio

So habs have to clear waiver before to go to AHL ?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Whoa now, didn't you follow the rookie tourney? Ryan Johnston is a stud! And you're going to throw him away?

You gotta give to get!

 

[hototogisu]

I suspect MB will trade some assets before season opening, mostly waiver eligible players for younger project or picks. MB is not perfect, but dont waste asset. You guys can confirm if all these players are waiver stuff ?

Tinordi
Thomas
Ghetto
Bournival
Holloway
Dumont
Barberio

So habs have to clear waiver before to go to AHL ?

I think I told you on the trade boards too but Andrighetto does not have to clear waivers. All the others yes.

 

[smirob]

I would be very pissed if we lost Tinordi for nothing.