Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 60

[sampollock]

the big guy is in Quebec so....it won't be long a month or so to get moving

 

[lamp9post]

Don't you see the problem that when you retain on all 3 you can't retain on anybody else and get less value for Byron, Drouin, Tiffoli, Hoffmann and anybody else whos contract expires and you would like to sell in a rebuild?

This is the key right here. You would get more overall by retaining on UFA's or acting as a middleman in a Fologno type deal every year for 5 years than to use up all our retention capability to move three veterans. Also, we still need to ice a team during a rebuild. I don't see a problem keeping Gallagher around, for example. He won't block anyone coming up through the system.

Edit: I'd rather look for alternatives that involve us picking up a bad contract with fewer years remaining. For example, what could we get for Price if we pick up the Matt Murray contract? Murray has only two more years rather than four, and we don't have to burn a retention slot. That would be a better fit with our rebuilding window.

 

[Hins77]

1. (MTL) Carey Price ( at least 2M$ retention) <-> (COL) Kuemper (3,5M$) + Sam Girard (5M$) + a pick / B prospect
2. (MTL) Carey Price (at least 2M$ retention) <-> (EDM) Koskinen (4,5M$) + Bad contract + Dylan Holloway + 1st round pick

Which one do you prefer?

Could it be possible to work out deals like that?

First one. Imo sam girard would be a perfect fit here

 

[Sterling Archer]

Not my problem if you can't handle my context. Nothing wrong about it, its a disagreement and you lost ability to handle that disagreement well by saying there is so much wrong with no context.

Takes guts to make the tough decisions to rebuild properly and not have those tough decisions drag on and on. I see optertunity. You see challenges and impossibilities.

It’s not “guts” to make a dumb trade.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s not “guts” to make a dumb trade.

But I don't believe it's a dumb trade. You do so that would only apply to your standards. I think retaining that much is guts and making a tough decision to rebuild and not have it delayed or have a distraction cause vets are drowning in the rebuild.

 

[Habs Halifax]

First one. Imo sam girard would be a perfect fit here

I think Girard was a perfect fit for us when we had Weber. But if we are rebuilding, I pass on trading for him if we have to trade futures or youth to get him. A bit different if we are able to use a guy like Toffoli though

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Trade gallagher

 

[Hins77]

I think Girard was a perfect fit for us when we had Weber. But if we are rebuilding, I pass on trading for him if we have to trade futures or youth to get him. A bit different if we are able to use a guy like Toffoli though

Nop. It was something around. Price vs girard. I wouldn’t give any future to get him. Girrard is only 23 yo on a nice contract. He would become instantly our best dman imo

 

[Sterling Archer]

But I don't believe it's a dumb trade. You do so that would only apply to your standards. I think retaining that much is guts and making a tough decision to rebuild and not have it delayed or have a distraction cause vets are drowning in the rebuild.

The fact it’s rarely, if ever done doesn’t mean it’s solely “my” standard. Seems to be the common sense consensus among the actual GMs that retaining $5.25M for 5 years is a no go. Please name me just one single time this has ever been done.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Nop. It was something around. Price vs girard. I wouldn’t give any future to get him. Girrard is only 23 yo on a nice contract. He would become instantly our best dman imo

I don't hate Girard but I would go after Newhook. But I understand salary out has to be a factor with the Avs. Personally, If I trade Price (with or without retention), my goal is to add futures and play guys that we already have.

By the time we rebuild properly, Girard is 28 and needs a new contract. Would you consider him a rebuild core piece you retain?

I would take Yzerman's approach. Add guys like Staal and Leddy during rebuild years. But he did trade Mantha for Vrana who is 2 years older than Girard.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The fact it’s rarely, if ever done doesn’t mean it’s solely “my” standard. Seems to be the common sense consensus among the actual GMs that retaining $5.25M for 5 years is a no go. Please name me just one single time this has ever been done.

It is rare and I admitted to it which is why I say it would take guts and be a very tough decision to make.

 

[Hins77]

I don't hate Girard but I would go after Newhook. But I understand salary out has to be a factor with the Avs. Personally, If I trade Price (with or without retention), my goal is to add futures and play guys that we already have.

By the time we rebuild properly, Girard is 28 and needs a new contract. Would you consider him a rebuild core piece you retain?

I would take Yzerman's approach. Add guys like Staal and Leddy during rebuild years. But he did trade Mantha for Vrana who is 2 years older than Girard.

Its gonna be tough to make a full rebuild imo. We have a lot of big contracts and we won’t be able to get rid of all of them. It gonnas be a rebuild. 4/5 guys from the core are gonna leave. But we won’t suck during 5/6 years. Imo. In 2 years. We can become dominant. So girrard gonna be 25 yo

 

[Habs Halifax]

Its gonna be tough to make a full rebuild imo. We have a lot of big contracts and we won’t be able to get rid of all of them. It gonnas be a rebuild. 4/5 guys from the core are gonna leave. But we won’t suck during 5/6 years. Imo. In 2 years. We can become dominant. So girrard gonna be 25 yo

It requires tough decisions for sure. Hence why I would be willing to retain on all 3 of Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Up to $12M of retention for 3-5 years is a huge decision but beating around the bush in a half ass rebuild is going to make our fan base go nuts!

1) Retain on Price, Gallagher, and Petry and we can get solid futures in return.

2) Not that hard to move Toffoli, Hoffman, and Chiarot for solid futures as well.

Then we have created a platform where the coach is forced to play young players and we are pretty much a bottom 10 team for 3 years straight. Then cross your fingers our scouting team knows what they are doing and we get a little luck along the way in the lottery. I can see us resurfacing a very good and young team in 5 years. Wright for example will be 22 when we are paying Price in his last year of retention

 

[lamp9post]

Based on what you just said, you are not prepared to do a proper rebuild and stay at the bottom so we can give ourselves a shot to get a star or two in the draft which is what we really need. If we don't rebuild properly and we try to rise faster than we should, we end up in more middle of the pack strategy.

I believe you are too afraid to make the tough decisions to rebuild properly.

What if we get Savoie and Michkov? In 5 years, these guys are only 21/22. The time to sign key UFA's would be after that 5 year period, not before.

No self-respecting team plans on rebuilding for 5 years. Especially in this era. If we're still rebuilding in 5 years it means we have slipped into the Buffalo Sabres abyss of hopelessness.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

It requires tough decisions for sure. Hence why I would be willing to retain on all 3 of Price, Gallagher, and Petry. Up to $12M of retention for 3-5 years is a huge decision but beating around the bush in a half ass rebuild is going to make our fan base go nuts!

1) Retain on Price, Gallagher, and Petry and we can get solid futures in return.

2) Not that hard to move Toffoli, Hoffman, and Chiarot for solid futures as well.

Then we have created a platform where the coach is forced to play young players and we are pretty much a bottom 10 team for 3 years straight. Then cross your fingers our scouting team knows what they are doing and we get a little luck along the way in the lottery. I can see us resurfacing a very good and young team in 5 years. Wright for example will be 22 when we are paying Price in his last year of retention

Retaining on those 3 players would mean a 4-5 years rebuild , I hope you realize that but I agree. Habs should do anything to get max value.
Id wait on Petry he's on all time low return right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No self-respecting team plans on rebuilding for 5 years. Especially in this era. If we're still rebuilding in 5 years it means we have slipped into the Buffalo Sabres abyss of hopelessness.

We would be over the rebuild in 5 years time if we made the right decisions today. In 5 years time, we would be past retention on Price, Gallagher, and Petry and our youth from this next draft would be age 22 ish. Might have a better situation than the Sens have at the moment cause we have less holes and better depth behind the young potential stars.

How long has the Sens been rebuilding? This is the 4th year Karlsson is with the Sharks now.

If we want a true rebuild, we have to accept the pains of making tough decisions today and consider the process may or may not take longer than expected. That's the risks of a rebuild

 

[Sterling Archer]

It is rare and I admitted to it which is why I say it would take guts and be a very tough decision to make.

Not rare. NEVER happened. Ever think that it's never happened because it's a bad idea rather than a "gutsy" one? Plenty of "gutsy" GMs in the past and not one ever made a trade like that. You can't even articulate why eating $5.25M for 5 years is good for a rebuild. Because it's not. Cap space equals flexibility and value. You can sell cap to acquire 1st rounders like Canes did when they got Marleu for a year and drafted Jarvis. That's a smart move afforded because they had the space to make it. Signing UFA's to sell off at the deadline for more picks is smart as you can effectively buy draft picks for short terms assets. You can take a homerun swing on signing a UFA's and jumpstart your rebuild when you have cap space. Literally every strategy that revolves around rebuilding includes having cap flexibility. For some reason you think that's the gutsy move when reality, it's the worst thing you can do. You're better off trading Price with a prospect or pick then eating $26M in cap over 5 years, which also won't happen but still a better option.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Retaining on those 3 players would mean a 4-5 years rebuild , I hope you realize that but I agree. Habs should do anything to get max value.
Id wait on Petry he's on all time low return right now.

I said 3-5 but it's really 5 years before we understand what that youth is. Wright is a good example... he would be age 22 in 5 years.

And we don't have to retain and trade all of Price, Gallagher, Petry at this next deadline. But something we should advertise that we are willing to retain to get max value in return and help other teams fit them in their cap. We do agree on this for the most part.

Trying to rebuild and holding onto too many vets that want to win is a distraction to me.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not rare. NEVER happened. Ever think that it's never happened because it's a bad idea rather than a "gutsy" one? Plenty of "gutsy" GMs in the past and not one ever made a trade like that. You can't even articulate why eating $5.25M for 5 years is good for a rebuild. Because it's not. Cap space equals flexibility and value. You can sell cap to acquire 1st rounders like Canes did when they got Marleu for a year and drafted Jarvis. That's a smart move afforded because they had the space to make it. Signing UFA's to sell off at the deadline for more picks is smart as you can effectively buy draft picks for short terms assets. You can take a homerun swing on signing a UFA's and jumpstart your rebuild when you have cap space. Literally every strategy that revolves around rebuilding includes having cap flexibility. For some reason you think that's the gutsy move when reality, it's the worst thing you can do. You're better off trading Price with a prospect or pick then eating $26M in cap over 5 years, which also won't happen but still a better option.

OK sure. Never happened and I did say historic moves in several posts. You don't like the idea. I do and I don't think it's insane. It's a move that would be historic and it's a way for us to move on from our vets with term, get value in return, and start the rebuild properly

I did articulate how that massive retention would play out. Not going to repeat myself. Mark it down as a disagreement cause there is no additional context to provide at this point.

 

[Laurentide]

Yet another example of lazy sports journalism. "Hey the Habs just hired a guy who used to work for the Rangers so let's assume that he is going to trade for all these guys on the Rangers roster now."

They do the same thing every time a francophone player is rumored to be on the move. "Could the Habs be a destination?" If the Habs actually got even half of the players the media rumors say they're getting they'd have won multiple Cups over the last 20 years by now.

 

[salbutera]

Its gonna be tough to make a full rebuild imo. We have a lot of big contracts and we won’t be able to get rid of all of them. It gonnas be a rebuild. 4/5 guys from the core are gonna leave. But we won’t suck during 5/6 years. Imo. In 2 years. We can become dominant. So girrard gonna be 25 yo

People talk full rebuild, yet w NYR Gorton did not force Lundqvist into trading him, and he extended Kreider vs dealing him for futures…

 

[sampollock]

dum dum is clearly hurting CC's career, so Jeff please step in

then ask price if a trade would work, start ringing the phones

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Yet another example of lazy sports journalism. "Hey the Habs just hired a guy who used to work for the Rangers so let's assume that he is going to trade for all these guys on the Rangers roster now."

They do the same thing every time a francophone player is rumored to be on the move. "Could the Habs be a destination?" If the Habs actually got even half of the players the media rumors say they're getting they'd have won multiple Cups over the last 20 years by now.

This would be different compared to rumours of francophone players coming to the Habs, GMs often go after players they are familiar with or picked up in another organization.

For example, Bergevin loved Shaw/Danault from his Chicago days and got them, Dubas has a love affair with former Soo Greyhounds when he was there and has brought in Campbell, Ritchie, Bunting.

Kravtsov wants out, and Gorton thought highly enough to draft him 9th overall, with the team likely going younger I wouldn't be surprised if we did somehow go after Kratsov.

 

[salbutera]

dum dum is clearly hurting CC's career, so Jeff please step in

then ask price if a trade would work, start ringing the phones

Last year Dom Dom was hurting Romanov, until he wasn’t this year.

Caufield is only here due to injures, otherwise he’d still be in Laval - he’s simply not NHL ready

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Yet another example of lazy sports journalism. "Hey the Habs just hired a guy who used to work for the Rangers so let's assume that he is going to trade for all these guys on the Rangers roster now."

They do the same thing every time a francophone player is rumored to be on the move. "Could the Habs be a destination?" If the Habs actually got even half of the players the media rumors say they're getting they'd have won multiple Cups over the last 20 years by now.

Did you not read the tweet? To start off with 'another example of lazy sports journalism' is incredibly rich considering you didn't seem to actually read what you're responding to.