Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: Part 60

[Kudo Shinichi]

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[lamp9post]

Price is a VERY high risk high reward player for someone to trade for, and goalies already don’t command much in return. I can see us getting a decent prospect but not 2 of a teams top prospects and a 1st

Price is such a wildcard this season. I read that he skated recently, but don't believe there is any timeline for his return, which makes me wonder: will he attempt a return at all this season? Will he try to be back soon to get in game shape for the olympics? Will he be put on ice for the rest of the season? So much uncertainty and his trade value could swing wildly depending on what unfolds. Say he comes back, plays 12-15 games at .920, then wins a gold with Canada at the Olympics. Teams would be lining up. He doesn't play, or comes back and plays poorly, gets injured again, etc. and teams will undoubtedly look elsewhere given the contract.

 

[McGees]

Price is such a wildcard this season. I read that he skated recently, but don't believe there is any timeline for his return, which makes me wonder: will he attempt a return at all this season? Will he try to be back soon to get in game shape for the olympics? Will he be put on ice for the rest of the season? So much uncertainty and his trade value could swing wildly depending on what unfolds. Say he comes back, plays 12-15 games at .920, then wins a gold with Canada at the Olympics. Teams would be lining up. He doesn't play, or comes back and plays poorly, gets injured again, etc. and teams will undoubtedly look elsewhere given the contract.

That would certainly help but you still have a 10.5 for several more years for a guy who misses a lot of games from injuries (now mental health as well)

having said that, I hope we trade him and can watch him win a cup with another team.

 

[lamp9post]

That would certainly help but you still have a 10.5 for several more years for a guy who misses a lot of games from injuries (now mental health as well)

Yes, I was thinking we'd be retaining in any trade situation (though I didn't mention it in my post). Price at $6M coming off a SCF appearance and an Olympic gold has to be appealing for a contender.

Edit: Perceptions about mental health issues can be so counter intuitive. Price could have been struggling in silence for years, but its no problem as long as it doesn't become public. Price seeks help and is attempting to heal and recover, and now his perceived trade value drops. Just an example of the damaging impact of mental health stigmatization and why it can be so difficult for people to seek the help they need.

 

[Deebs]

How much cap space do the Rangers have?

 

[Sterling Archer]

Lehkonen/Armia and a 3rd would be a no brainer for us and the Rangers as they'd have to have no brains to make that trade.

 

[le_sean]

Then we are stuck with him in rebuild years while he drowns with us like Lundqvist did with the Rangers during their rebuild. If the Habs truly decide to rebuild, Price will be moved and the only way to do that is to retain. Retaining that much salary is a serious decision but we wont' need cap space in rebuild years. In fact, it would help us reach the cap floor if we decide to go with a really young roster.

I'd retain 50% on all 3 of Gallagher, Petry, and Price but the futures need to be solid. Not golden but solid. Basically $12M in retain salary for 3-5 years (including this year). That basically how long our rebuild would take before we would have to pay the kids who need new contracts after ELC

Do you think Price and his family loves Montreal as much as Lundqvist loved NYC? I don't. Price and his family would like to stay if we improved our team but that's not probable. Price will be open to being traded and he might actually demand a trade.

Then let us be stuck with him. Taking bad contracts that have 1-2 years left is okay. But retaining for 5 years is not smart. Adding two other long term retentions like you’ve proposed with Gallagher and Petry is stupid. $12m per year in dead cap space for 4+ years is how you screw over a franchise. This is especially true when all you’re predicting on getting back is Holloway who is a 2C at best, Lavoie who is a potential 3rd liner and a late 1st.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Then let us be stuck with him. Taking bad contracts that have 1-2 years left is okay. But retaining for 5 years is not smart. Adding two other long term retentions like you’ve proposed with Gallagher and Petry is stupid. $12m per year in dead space is how you screw over a franchise.

Retaining for 5 years is not smart? Can you explain the context on that cause if we move Price, we are rebuilding and don't need the cap space. Do you think we rise as fast as the Leafs did and that cap space hurts us? I don't think we are in the same spot (Kessel retention).

It would be historic cause I don't recall 50% retention deals with 5 years in term (including this year). But I would like to know your context on why that is bad for us during rebuild years?

 

[le_sean]

Retaining for 5 years is not smart? Can you explain the context on that cause if we move Price, we are rebuilding and don't need the cap space. Do you think we rise as fast as the Leafs did and that cap space hurts us? I don't think we are in the same spot (Kessel retention).

It would be historic cause I don't recall 50% retention deals with 5 years in term (including this year). But I would like to know your context on why that is bad for us during rebuild years?

Because it handcuffs you from doing anything. What if the Rangers had $12m in dead cap and were unable to sign Panarin because of it? They’d look some stupid. The rebuild was expedited because of signing one player.

Why do you assume it would take 5 years before the Habs get competitive? What if they get Savoie and Michkov? This on top of Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Norlinder. Why couldn’t they turn it around right away with that core?

If Price had two years left, okay, then maybe. But 5? Lol it’s just asinine. All of that because you want a potential 2C and Lavoie who has 3 assists in the AHL? Come on man.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Retaining for 5 years is not smart? Can you explain the context on that cause if we move Price, we are rebuilding and don't need the cap space. Do you think we rise as fast as the Leafs did and that cap space hurts us? I don't think we are in the same spot (Kessel retention).

It would be historic cause I don't recall 50% retention deals with 5 years in term (including this year). But I would like to know your context on why that is bad for us during rebuild years?

Because it handcuffs you from doing anything. What if the Rangers had $12m in dead cap and were unable to sign Panarin because of it? They’d look some stupid. The rebuild was expedited because of signing one player.

Why do you assume it would take 5 years before the Habs get competitive? What if they get Savoie and Michkov? This on top of Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Norlinder. Why couldn’t they turn it around right away with that core?

If Price had two years left, okay, then maybe. But 5? Lol it’s just asinine. All of that because you want a potential 2C and Lavoie who has 3 assists in the AHL? Come on man.

I've already commented on this so I'm just going to leave this here. But retaining $5M for 5 yeears is insane and never going to happen,

Montreal will not retain $5.25M for 4 years so don't get too excited about your proposal. It's a pipedream. They may pick up $2Mish but not more than that. It would put the team in cap hell for too long.

Price's salary also drops dramatically starting next year so the actual pay will be lower than it's ever been and will continue to drop.

Having lots of cap space is an important part of rebuilding. You can take on bad contracts and get paid 1st for the pleasure. Look at Carolina with Marleau and got Jarvis. Also the ability to sign UFAs knowing you’ll be trading them at the deadline for more picks and prospects. Many examples but eating that cap can cost you when rebuilding. Just not worth eating that much salary.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because it handcuffs you from doing anything. What if the Rangers had $12m in dead cap and were unable to sign Panarin because of it? They’d look some stupid. The rebuild was expedited because of signing one player.

Why do you assume it would take 5 year before the Habs get competitive? What if they get Savoie and Michkov? This on top of Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, Norlinder. Why couldn’t they turn it around right away with that core?

If Price had two years left, okay, then maybe. But 5? Lol it’s just asinine. All of that because you want a potential 2C and Lavoie who has 3 assists in the AHL? Come on man.

Based on what you just said, you are not prepared to do a proper rebuild and stay at the bottom so we can give ourselves a shot to get a star or two in the draft which is what we really need. If we don't rebuild properly and we try to rise faster than we should, we end up in more middle of the pack strategy.

I believe you are too afraid to make the tough decisions to rebuild properly.

What if we get Savoie and Michkov? In 5 years, these guys are only 21/22. The time to sign key UFA's would be after that 5 year period, not before.

 

[Weltschmerz]

How much cap space do the Rangers have?

They have tons this season, but next year they have 16 signed and 10.5 left to replace their second line center sign a hand full of RFAs (Kakko, Kravtsov, ...) and probably some Bonuses to pay for players on entry level contracts.

 

[Miller Time]

Lehkonen/Armia and a 3rd would be a no brainer for us and the Rangers as they'd have to have no brains to make that trade.

Armia + 3rd would be fantastic for us, and, as you point out, highly unlikely for the Rangers...

Lek + 3rd... (especially if it's our 3rd) frankly i think that's actually slanted to the rangers (unless one feels 100% confident Kravtsov will succeed as a top-6 player). Lek remains underappreciated around here imo. is a very solid 3rd line player on a very manageable cap hit, he's still team-controlled RFA (with a manageable QO for next year), and while he may not ever put together his offensive game, he has the tools and is young enough for there to be some room for growth. wouldn't be the first player to bump up his offensive production in his 25-30 years (Byron comes to mind), and Lek scoring 20g/20a to go with his very sound defensive game would turn him into a very high-quality asset.

I'd still do it, we need to roll the dice on some high-end talent... but short of them moving him in a package for a top-6 rental or another team offering a first or a similar former top pick that has stalled in their progress, i think the Rangers will be hard-pressed to find a better offer that both helps them right now and gives them some future benefit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I've already commented on this so I'm just going to leave this here. But retaining $5M for 5 yeears is insane and never going to happen,

It's not insane. It's just not typically done and most teams are penny pinchers where the Habs can afford it. Would the Habs do it? No idea but if Molson approved it, I would do it in a blink of an eye. Faster we move out our vet core, the better. Rebuilding with vets around drowning in the rebuild is a distraction. It also lowers and lowers their trade value the longer you go down that road.

Increased draft power to the max level by getting any futures we can get (retention on Price, Gallagher, Petry) while we get low picks with our own picks is how you accelerate a rebuild.

The rebuild (full rebuild) would take 3-5 years at a minimum. Any guys we draft in the next two or three drafts will be 21/22 in 5 years. If we hit with our picks, that's when you start to spend to the max cap again. Not before. For example: Wright will be 21 in the last year we would retain on Price.

 

[Ozmodiar]

That would certainly help but you still have a 10.5 for several more years for a guy who misses a lot of games from injuries (now mental health as well)

having said that, I hope we trade him and can watch him win a cup with another team.

Using the rangers rebuild as a rough guide, from “letter to fans” to Panarin signing, Gorton could very well keep Price. Gorton waited only 2 drafts and one full season before spending big in free agency.

if the plan is:
- shed cap and acquire picks and prospects
- draft twice in top 10 (4 total firsts)
- reload in free agency in 2023

… maybe they keep price for 2023-24. Still 3 seasons remaining at that point. If those 2 picks are top 5, they’ll be ready in short order. In the meantime, they give Price a light workload and let him provide leadership to young D and goalies.

bottom line: the Habs don’t *have to* trade Price to get cap space and futures. There are other ways. If there isn’t a team willing to give up a top prospect and/or take on most of his Cap, then they can explore other options.

 

[Weltschmerz]

It's not insane. It's just not typically done and most teams are penny pinchers where the Habs can afford it. Would the Habs do it? No idea but if Molson approved it, I would do it in a blink of an eye. Faster we move out our vet core, the better. Rebuilding with vets around drowning in the rebuild is a distraction. It also lowers and lowers their trade value the longer you go down that road.

Increased draft power to the max level by getting any futures we can get (retention on Price, Gallagher, Petry) while we get low picks with our own picks is how you accelerate a rebuild.

The rebuild (full rebuild) would take 3-5 years at a minimum. Any guys we draft in the next two or three drafts will be 21/22 in 5 years. If we hit with our picks, that's when you start to spend to the max cap again. Not before.

Don't you see the problem that when you retain on all 3 you can't retain on anybody else and get less value for Byron, Drouin, Tiffoli, Hoffmann and anybody else whos contract expires and you would like to sell in a rebuild?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Don't you see the problem that when you retain on all 3 you can't retain on anybody else and get less value for Byron, Drouin, Tiffoli, Hoffmann and anybody else whos contract expires and you would like to sell in a rebuild?

I don't see a problem. I'll explain it cause I already reviewed it.

* Retain on Gallagher, Petry, Price to get the best futures return we can get. It would be a very tough decision to retain that amount over 3-5 years but I got my eyes on futures and an accelerated rebuild. Add those futures on top of what we have and with the top 5 picks would would get in the next 3 years. Last thing I want is for our vets to drown on our roster while they struggle and their trade value gets lower. They actually hurt our tank probability cause these guys have pride and will want to win games... even if they are doing a good job loosing games at the moment. But keeping them allows our coach to use them. Take the option away from the Coach

* You don't need to retain on Toffoli and Hoffman types.

* You don't have to trade Byron and Drouin types. You keep them cause we would need 25+ and 30+ type players and they actually help our tank probability

 

[Sterling Archer]

It's not insane. It's just not typically done and most teams are penny pinchers where the Habs can afford it. Would the Habs do it? No idea but if Molson approved it, I would do it in a blink of an eye. Faster we move out our vet core, the better. Rebuilding with vets around drowning in the rebuild is a distraction. It also lowers and lowers their trade value the longer you go down that road.

Increased draft power to the max level by getting any futures we can get (retention on Price, Gallagher, Petry) while we get low picks with our own picks is how you accelerate a rebuild.

The rebuild (full rebuild) would take 3-5 years at a minimum. Any guys we draft in the next two or three drafts will be 21/22 in 5 years. If we hit with our picks, that's when you start to spend to the max cap again. Not before. For example: Wright will be 21 in the last year we would retain on Price.

It's not typical/ever done because it is insane. It will never happen and sorry but I'm not going to bother arguing a never going to happen event. You think it's a reality, I think it's level 8,000 fantasy.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's not typical/ever done because it is insane. It will never happen and sorry but I'm not going to bother arguing a never going to happen event. You think it's a reality, I think it's level 8,000 fantasy.

It would be historic for sure. Takes guts and proper vision and you would fail as our next GM cause you are too afraid to make tough decisions. Never going to happen? Perhaps so but this is about a online forum to say what each of would do and I would make those moves. Already explain my reasons and they are not out to lunch. It's the best way to move them for value while we add to our futures and give our team the best probability to hit with stars in the next 2 or 3 drafts. Reality

Letting Gallagher, Price, Petry drown in our rebuild and becoming distractions is a negative situation. You might as well have the same strategy as Roy and say a rebuild is not required.

I stand firm. Retaining on all 3 for 3-5 years overlaps our rebuild years well where we would not need cap space.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It would be historic for sure. Takes guts and proper vision and you would fail as our next GM cause you are too afraid to make tough decisions. Never going to happen? Perhaps so but this is about a online forum to say what each of would do and I would make those moves. Already explain my reasons and they are not out to lunch.

Letting Gallagher, Price, Petry drown in our rebuild and becoming distractions is a negative situation. You might as well have the same strategy as Roy and say a rebuild is not required.

It would take a moron GM with no vision on how to rebuild to make that deal. This is Houle level mismanagement.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It would take a moron GM with no vision on how to rebuild to make that deal. This is Houle level mismanagement.

It would also take a moron GM to think that we can rebuild without moving some vets out who would be a distraction during our rebuild. Unless you think we can move them without retention and just get rid of them for nothing... Well that would be a moron type move as well

How many years did we go with $8-10M of unused cap space after we let Markov and Radulov walk? Those were not rebuild years too! . I think you are too afraid to retain and you are trying to overcomplicate it where you think we need cap space during rebuild years. These same rebuild years where it's expected that the cap will rise significantly after the NHLPA outstanding balance is paid off.

I stand firm. Retaining on all 3 for 3-5 years overlaps our rebuild years well where we would not need cap space.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It would also take a moron GM to think that we can rebuild without moving some vets out who would be a distraction during our rebuild. Unless you think we can move them without retention and just get rid of them for nothing... Well that would be a moron type move as well

How many years did we go with $8-10M of unused cap space after we let Markov and Radulov walk? Those were not rebuild years too! . I think you are too afraid to retain and you are trying to overcomplicate it where you think we need cap space during rebuild years. These same rebuild years where it's expected that the cap will rise significantly after the NHLPA outstanding balance is paid off.

I stand firm. Retaining on all 3 for 3-5 years overlaps our rebuild years well where we would not need cap space.

There's so much wrong with this I can't even.. I could just agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There's so much wrong with this I can't even.. I could just agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

Not my problem if you can't handle my context. Nothing wrong about it, its a disagreement and you lost ability to handle that disagreement well by saying there is so much wrong with no context.

Takes guts to make the tough decisions to rebuild properly and not have those tough decisions drag on and on. I see optertunity. You see challenges and impossibilities.

 

[AmeriHab]

I want something to happen so badly and stack up picks for a hometown draft. Suzuki, ELC guys, prospects should be only thing not available

 

[1000eeer]

1. (MTL) Carey Price ( at least 2M$ retention) <-> (COL) Kuemper (3,5M$) + Sam Girard (5M$) + a pick / B prospect
2. (MTL) Carey Price (at least 2M$ retention) <-> (EDM) Koskinen (4,5M$) + Bad contract + Dylan Holloway + 1st round pick

Which one do you prefer?

Could it be possible to work out deals like that?