Proposal: Trade Proposal Thread: May last to TDL? edition

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DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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What does tanking guarantee?

There are no strategies that yield guaranteed positive results. Every credible move to win a championship comes with the risk of failure.

Tanking is advocated for on the basis that it should improve the odds, not that it gives perfect odds. It doesn't give perfect odds, and for that matter neither does keeping Weber, Petry, and Tatar until they're 40 or close to it like the Habs did with Markov and Plekanec.

The argument for tanking this year and possibly next year is that the Habs youth and prospect look like they might form a good team in the period 2022-2027, approximately. That is a Habs' team that might actually compete, and thus moves should be taken to add to that core. That can be achieved by adding good young players, prospects, and draft picks today. As an example, trading away Pacioretty yielded Suzuki, who might become the 1st line center of that credible core, at the loss of Pacioretty today.

In contrast, Weber and Petry are not expected to be productive in that period. They are productive now and probably next year, but that's irrelevant as that is for a losing cause.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Tatar's LW production over the last two seasons with the Habs.

wo1Uaiu.jpg
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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There are no strategies that yield guaranteed positive results. Every credible move to win a championship comes with the risk of failure.

Tanking is advocated for on the basis that it should improve the odds, not that it gives perfect odds. It doesn't give perfect odds, and for that matter neither does keeping Weber, Petry, and Tatar until they're 40 or close to it like the Habs did with Markov and Plekanec.

The argument for tanking this year and possibly next year is that the Habs youth and prospect look like they might form a good team in the period 2022-2027, approximately. That is a Habs' team that might actually compete, and thus moves should be taken to add to that core. That can be achieved by adding good young players, prospects, and draft picks today. As an example, trading away Pacioretty yielded Suzuki, who might become the 1st line center of that credible core, at the loss of Pacioretty today.

In contrast, Weber and Petry are not expected to be productive in that period. They are productive now and probably next year, but that's irrelevant as that is for a losing cause.

I have no issue trading the likes of Petry, Tatar, etc. I understand there are no guarantees - which is exactly why I have big reservations about trading Weber, and especially Price. They are two absolutely excellent players.

I look at Weber and based on the type of player and his conditioning, I see a decline similar to someone like Chara - who even past 40 is still an impact player. Not trying to exaggerate and say Weber still be a #1D at 40 years old - but in 2022, 23, 24? Yeah - i don't expect him to decline all that quickly, and that falls right into the supposed "window" you're targeting.
Price? Same idea. I value his ability very highly - and can see him remain a top goalie in the league for many years. Clearly he is somewhat fragile - mentally moreso than phsyically - and hopefully that's something he does a bit better at when we get a better team around him.

But to come back to your suggested "window of 2022-2027" - I still feel like that team has a better chance at the cup with Price and Weber, than without (unless we completely luck out and win a Dahlin/Matthews/Eichel level of prospect at draft - but odds of getting someone quite so high are super slim).

So yes - keep on trading the likes of Pacioretty for Suzki type returns all day long. Petry, Tatar, etc. But when it comes to Weber, and especially Price - i'm way more hesitant.
 
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bobholly39

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Tatar's LW production over the last two seasons with the Habs.

wo1Uaiu.jpg

Really impressive to see wouldn't have guessed he ranked so high. Maybe on this year alone, but for 2 years combined, that's higher than expected.

Also - lol at Ovi having almost 2x more goals than anyone else.
 
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Pat Riot

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Sep 30, 2017
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Bold = Belong to Montréal. Bold-Italic = Traded by Montréal, belong to the other team. Italic = conditional pick, not yet awarded
2020
1st round pick - Montréal
2nd round pick - Montréal
2nd round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)
2nd round pick - Montréal (from St. Louis - Scandella trade)
3rd round pick - Montréal
4th round pick - Montréal
4th round pick - Montréal (from Winnipeg - Armia trade)
4th round pick - Montréal (from Anaheim - Deslauriers trade)
4th round pick - Buffalo (from Montréal via San Jose - traded for 2019 4th round pick #108, Scandella trade)
5th round pick - Montréal
5th round pick - Montréal (from Florida - traded for 2019 5th round pick #136)
6th round pick - Montréal
7th round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)
7th round pick - Philadelphia (from Montréal - traded for 2019 7th round pick #201)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Adding atleast a 1rd pick to that lineup by trading either Petry or Tatar would make the draft pretty interesting. At one point they have to hit a good player
 

habergeon

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Apr 15, 2015
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The Great Weal

Phil's Pizza
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So according to Friedman, Jensen might be moved. Hopefully we can pick him up with the Caps giving us something for taking on his contract.
 
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Ozmodiar

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
5,858
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Tatar for Zadorov + 1st

Z makes decent coin and due for a raise. MB type - physical, stay at home. Romanov coming.

MB needs a 1st if trading Tatar.

Sakic said he’d prefer a hockey trade. He also didn’t rule out trading his 1st. (In the interview I saw)
 

Habs Halifax

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Jul 11, 2016
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Really impressive to see wouldn't have guessed he ranked so high. Maybe on this year alone, but for 2 years combined, that's higher than expected.

Also - lol at Ovi having almost 2x more goals than anyone else.

Yeah, I was not expecting him to be ranked 12th in the last two years. His ice time is less than any of them too
 

yianik

Registered User
Jun 30, 2009
10,678
6,128
Sorry to be negative, but I am just not getting excited about the haul of draft picks we have.

I have been very supportive and patient with TT, but his inability to hit on top talent since 2007 ( and I actually mostly judge since 2012 ) has me wanting him gone. I decided his last chance with me is to see how the 2017-19 drafts shape up, but its looking shaky. Now look, I get its early days and the need to be patient with prospects, but at the same time I have heard that one year in and year out. Guys like Brook, Poehling and Kotka are a bit shaky this year. How many guys even look remtely like having high upside , which is what we need ?

Maybe MB needs to stick with Suzuki like trades, and even for us to throw in a pick to get better assets, and just forget about that 1st rounder in return. Really is awful to think this way, but it seems reasonable to me. Giving TT more picks to whiff on is how I am looking at it right now. I really hope a bunch of his current picks really step up, but so far, not so good.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,323
26,034
East Coast
Bold = Belong to Montréal. Bold-Italic = Traded by Montréal, belong to the other team. Italic = conditional pick, not yet awarded
2020
1st round pick - Montréal
2nd round pick - Montréal
2nd round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)
2nd round pick - Montréal (from St. Louis - Scandella trade)
3rd round pick - Montréal
4th round pick - Montréal
4th round pick - Montréal (from Winnipeg - Armia trade)
4th round pick - Montréal (from Anaheim - Deslauriers trade)
4th round pick - Buffalo (from Montréal via San Jose - traded for 2019 4th round pick #108, Scandella trade)
5th round pick - Montréal
5th round pick - Montréal (from Florida - traded for 2019 5th round pick #136)
6th round pick - Montréal
7th round pick - Montréal (from Chicago - Shaw trade)
7th round pick - Philadelphia (from Montréal - traded for 2019 7th round pick #201)
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Adding atleast a 1rd pick to that lineup by trading either Petry or Tatar would make the draft pretty interesting. At one point they have to hit a good player

At this stage, I'm really open to taking 2021 and/or 2022 1st round picks. 12 picks in this next draft is a lot! Only so much talent we can hit with in one draft year. And from 31+, the probability gets less and less. Diversify the picks over several drafts please
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,323
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East Coast
If true, then Timmins, or Newhook. If it's Newhook, can't see anything else coming.

If Montreal trades with Colorado I could see them wanting Jost. Weren't they interested in him at the draft ?

Newhook is not that far off in value from Nolan Foote and their was a 1st also included with Foote to get Coleman who has the same term left as Tatar. Plus that 1st is the Canucks 1st which is 13-20 range (+/-).

I would pass on Jost. Being high on him pre-draft does not mean we still are 4 years later. If they insist on him being part of the package, I'm sending Mete the other way and asking for Graves to be in the mix.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,323
26,034
East Coast
Sorry to be negative, but I am just not getting excited about the haul of draft picks we have.

I have been very supportive and patient with TT, but his inability to hit on top talent since 2007 ( and I actually mostly judge since 2012 ) has me wanting him gone. I decided his last chance with me is to see how the 2017-19 drafts shape up, but its looking shaky. Now look, I get its early days and the need to be patient with prospects, but at the same time I have heard that one year in and year out. Guys like Brook, Poehling and Kotka are a bit shaky this year. How many guys even look remtely like having high upside , which is what we need ?

Maybe MB needs to stick with Suzuki like trades, and even for us to throw in a pick to get better assets, and just forget about that 1st rounder in return. Really is awful to think this way, but it seems reasonable to me. Giving TT more picks to whiff on is how I am looking at it right now. I really hope a bunch of his current picks really step up, but so far, not so good.

You think the 17+ draft picks have no hits at all? Or are you saying they will bust like the 08-16 drafts?
 

habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
8,954
11,728
Nova Scotia
If true, then Timmins, or Newhook. If it's Newhook, can't see anything else coming.

If Montreal trades with Colorado I could see them wanting Jost. Weren't they interested in him at the draft ?
He also claimed yesterday that none of Newhook Byram or Timmins are available aka he's not making any trades at the deadline this year.
 
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